Member Contributer MBrane Posted October 31, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted October 31, 2014 Have you removed the heads to open the crankcase? Ciao, Luigi. Yes I disassembled everything except the valves/pistons/rods. Had to make some adapters for a rear stand to hold the back of the bike up. I had help getting the engine out, but unfortunately had to put it back in by myself. That was an interesting dance of wood blocks, steel plates, and a floor jack. Good times. It is however much easier to check valve clearances with the engine mounted on a stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer vfrcapn Posted October 31, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted October 31, 2014 Here is looking down on the rear of the engine with the rear head removed. You can see the bottom of #1 cylinder above the bolt with a green head. Here is from the side with the rear head stuck on for perspective. This is from the sprocket side of the engine. I would think there is not enough space for the bolt to come up out of the case. Maybe not enough room to clear all the threads on that bolt? No idea if there are other issues with splitting the cases, as I haven't done it on the VFR. This is just the first one that jumped out at me while looking over this engine. This almost looks like it would work? Have you removed the heads to open the crankcase? Ciao, Luigi. Yes I disassembled everything except the valves/pistons/rods. Had to make some adapters for a rear stand to hold the back of the bike up. I had help getting the engine out, but unfortunately had to put it back in by myself. That was an interesting dance of wood blocks, steel plates, and a floor jack. Good times. It is however much easier to check valve clearances with the engine mounted on a stand. Did you replace the main bearings? All the head bolts? What wold you have bought ahead of time if you had to do it over? Anything you would have done differently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MBrane Posted October 31, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted October 31, 2014 Have you removed the heads to open the crankcase? Ciao, Luigi. Yes I disassembled everything except the valves/pistons/rods. Had to make some adapters for a rear stand to hold the back of the bike up. I had help getting the engine out, but unfortunately had to put it back in by myself. That was an interesting dance of wood blocks, steel plates, and a floor jack. Good times. It is however much easier to check valve clearances with the engine mounted on a stand. Did you replace the main bearings? All the head bolts? What wold you have bought ahead of time if you had to do it over? Anything you would have done differently? Everything other than the gears looked great so the only things that got replaced were the main case bolts (they are one-time use only), and snap rings/seals/gaskets. Bike runs like a scalded dog, and shifts much better now. Good for at least another 74K I'd say judging from the '94 I bought to ride in the meantime with 125K on the clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted October 31, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted October 31, 2014 Main case bolts are one time use? Good to know. What about head bolts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MBrane Posted November 1, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 1, 2014 Main case bolts are one time use? Good to know. What about head bolts? I checked 'em for stretching, and found none so I re-used 'em. The main case bolts are designed to stretch i.e you torque them to a value, and then go another 90°. Strange looking bolts with big round grooves in the center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted November 1, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 1, 2014 Main case bolts are one time use? Good to know. What about head bolts? I checked 'em for stretching, and found none so I re-used 'em. The main case bolts are designed to stretch i.e you torque them to a value, and then go another 90°. Strange looking bolts with big round grooves in the center. Gotcha, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted November 9, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 9, 2014 Any more progress on yours Luigi? I got my extra engine stripped down and found those "special" one time use bolts. It's only the 8 that immediately surround the crank, so not "all" the lower case bolts. Transmission wasn't shifting easily before I tore it down, but it had been sitting for years with no oil. Seems good after working it through a few times. Getting it out, I don't see any issues. Certainly nothing like the pic from MBrane! Completing the tear down, I can more easily see where 20 hours is a reasonable quote... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer vfrcapn Posted November 9, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 9, 2014 So can you split the cases with the heads still on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted November 9, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 9, 2014 I doubt it. It has been said that you can't. The engine I took apart had heads already off, but there are 1 or 2 bolts that look to be inaccessible with the heads on. I kinda already took these pics, but here with head bolted up (Where do these VFR engines keep coming from?!?!) Looking down on it. Rear of engine, left (sprocket) side: And on the right side; one maybe two bolts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer luigi Posted November 9, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 9, 2014 Any more progress on yours Luigi? I got my extra engine stripped down and found those "special" one time use bolts. It's only the 8 that immediately surround... Hi Ken. Finally i've decided to swap the engine with another one i have. The engine broken has 75k km (around 46k miles) and once removed from frame should be a good idea a complete heads overhaul (valves, seats, etc) but this an expensive job in money and time. The engine that i choose seems to remember have many few miles and a simple valve clearance check it's enough to guarantee me many other kilometers without great cost. I have a third engine stored in a garage that is not much in health in the cylinder/piston section but OK in transmission group, so i can mix up the two engines to have one to tune up or make some experiment. Tomorrow i begin to check valve clearance and moving the Factory Pro Shift Star Kit from installed on the first to the other. Next, if valve clearance is OK i install the engine in frame. The use the time saved to change the final transmission kit, already worn, and try to swap the stock front fork with the tubes and hydraulic parts from an Firestorm VTR to have the rebound setting. The tube are the same of VFR and using the stock fork slider is possible keeping the CBS in function. It's all for now. Ciao, Luigi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer luigi Posted November 9, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 9, 2014 I doubt it. It has been said that you can't. The engine I took apart had heads already off, but there are 1 or 2 bolts that look to be inaccessible...Hi KenHi Ken. Hi Ken. I've checked the bolt indicated by arrow (the image is your, i have just increased brightness with Photoshop) and it's true that is impossible to remove it with head installed, but is fully screwin' out. This bolt seems to me that is the only one that is impossible to remove, anyway any other are fully screwin'out too. This means, for me, that is possible opening the crankcase to work on transmission without remove the head, saving time and money. Obviously, if some of that bolts needs to be substitute, these words don't worth. Ciao, Luigi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted November 10, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 10, 2014 I was wondering if those bolts in question would unscrew enough to separate the halves but still remain in place. For my purposes it is irrelevant, but might be a good thing to know. Experiment time on the latest test subject! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer luigi Posted November 10, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 10, 2014 Yes, this is great time/money saver. Luigi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer luigi Posted November 25, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 25, 2014 Hi to all. MBrane has won his bet! :beer: I don't opened yet the engine, but exchanging the clutch group from engine to the other i took some time to make a "search" in the crankcase using a magnet and this is what i held: This is what MBrane has predicted: Bet your countershaft 6th gear looks like this one: This happened to me back in April at 74K miles. The dogs on countershaft 6th are what engages 3rd. I replaced countershaft 3rd too since it was scarred from the broken dogs. The biggest problem I had was waiting on parts. One of the gasket kits was on back order for several months. I eventually found it in stock with some searching. Everything else inside the engine looked great so I just cleaned it up, and put it back together. The bike had shifting issues since I got it with 18K. It shifts better than it ever did now. More i have found this other piece: So, i have broken not only the gear (probably the 6th) but one of the three forks too. Now, i'm working to mount another engine. In future i will repair this one. Ciao, Luigi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MBrane Posted November 26, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 26, 2014 So, i have broken not only the gear (probably the 6th) but one of the three forks too. Now, i'm working to mount another engine. In future i will repair this one. Ciao, Luigi. Well that's one bet I didn't want to win especially since you raised me a broken shift fork. At least now you know what's broken inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misspent Youth Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 So, what should be doing or avoid doing to prevent this kind of failure? Or is it a manufacturing/material defect? I ride mine easy (but bought it used) and would hope to have it around a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted November 26, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 26, 2014 So, what should be doing or avoid doing to prevent this kind of failure? Or is it a manufacturing/material defect? I ride mine easy (but bought it used) and would hope to have it around a while. use your clutch, dont slam shift like a retard. no its not a defect.. its a rare case for a vfr.. someone assaulted that bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer luigi Posted November 26, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 26, 2014 Well that's one bet I didn't want to win especially since you raised me a broken shift fork. At least now you know what's broken inside. So, what should be doing or avoid doing to prevent this kind of failure? Or is it a manufacturing/material defect? I ride mine easy (but bought it used) and would hope to have it around a while. As gll429 said, its not a manufacturing or material defect, its a rare case for a VFR. Even my Honda official dealer was surprised to hear this kind of problem: "i work here since many, many years" - he said- "and i never sold a transmission gear to spare parts. It's the first time that i heard this" I always used the clutch to shift gears, except in rare situations and i never used the bike for track days. I think that i just misfortune. Ciao, Luigi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFR4Lee Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 . I think that i just misfortune. That's probably it. Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes the bear eats you. Or something like that. Ciao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misspent Youth Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 I appreciate that it's apparently rare, but MBrane had the very same misfortune, hence my concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted November 27, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 27, 2014 Hi to all. MBrane has won his bet! :beer: I don't opened yet the engine, but exchanging the clutch group from engine to the other i took some time to make a "search" in the crankcase using a magnet and this is what i held: This is what MBrane has predicted: Bet your countershaft 6th gear looks like this one: This happened to me back in April at 74K miles. The dogs on countershaft 6th are what engages 3rd. I replaced countershaft 3rd too since it was scarred from the broken dogs. The biggest problem I had was waiting on parts. One of the gasket kits was on back order for several months. I eventually found it in stock with some searching. Everything else inside the engine looked great so I just cleaned it up, and put it back together. The bike had shifting issues since I got it with 18K. It shifts better than it ever did now. More i have found this other piece: So, i have broken not only the gear (probably the 6th) but one of the three forks too. Now, i'm working to mount another engine. In future i will repair this one. Ciao, Luigi. Based on these photos Luigi, I think you should now change the title of this thread to "Help, I found 3rd gear but it is in four pieces!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer swas Posted November 27, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 27, 2014 Would the gearbox damage be anything to do with the 'Factory Pro Shift Star Kit'? Don't they simply cut power during shifting? If timing is inaccurate the gearbox would suffer. I may have misunderstood that you are re-installing the kit from damaged gearbox to replacement gearbox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted November 27, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 27, 2014 Would the gearbox damage be anything to do with the 'Factory Pro Shift Star Kit'? Don't they simply cut power during shifting? If timing is inaccurate the gearbox would suffer. I may have misunderstood that you are re-installing the kit from damaged gearbox to replacement gearbox NOPE!! they dont cut power!! they simply have a better "shift star " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MBrane Posted November 27, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted November 27, 2014 The flange that holds the dogs on 6th gear is the weakest point in the trans so if it's been subjected to sloppy shifting that's where it will likely fail first. The dog on the upper L looks like it's been floating around in there for a while. Once one of 'em breaks it's just a matter of time until the others fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer luigi Posted November 29, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 29, 2014 Would the gearbox damage be anything to do with the 'Factory Pro Shift Star Kit'? Don't they simply cut power during shifting? If timing is inaccurate the gearbox would suffer. I may have misunderstood that you are re-installing the kit from damaged gearbox to replacement gearbox HI swas. IMO, Factory Pro Kit have nothing to do with my damage. That kit is just mechanically operated and is impossible installling it with a inaccurate timing. Is easier a fault installation with the OEM star than the Factory Pro part. Based on these photos Luigi, I think you should now change the title of this thread to "Help, I found 3rd gear but it is in four piece :laugh: NOPE!! they dont cut power!! they simply have a better "shift star " As gll329 says.... The flange that holds the dogs on 6th gear is the weakest point in the trans so if it's been subjected to sloppy shifting that's where it will likely fail first. The dog on the upper L looks like it's been floating around in there for a while. Once one of 'em breaks it's just a matter of time until the others fail. Yes. I perfectly agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.