Lint Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 A little background first. 05 with about 25Kish miles on her. I bought her two years ago and I haven't touched the suspension, other than having a mechanic crank the fork adjusters down all the way and adjust the rear shock, which I know is undersprung for my weight. Same fork oil as when I bought it with 6626 miles on her. Also, the rear tire is a Shinko 005 and the front is the Pilot Road 3 that I've had on for about 9-10K. I wore out the rear on my trip to and from Nashville. I had the bike loaded down with soft saddlebags, a small tent and a sleeping bag, plus a tank bag that grew progressively heavier as my trip wore on, especially on the return, due to my adding things to it. Now, I know that the profile of the 005 is different and in some ways I like it better than my worn previous Pilot Road 3, i.e. it falls into corners quicker, really that is the biggest difference. I DON'T want this to turn into a tire thread, or a Shinko is crap/Shinko is great, etc. So far, I am impressed-ish, but I mention it only for this reason: My front end feels light. Kind of like it is pushing, or understeering, yet I know it isn't. When I turn into a curve, sometimes I feel like I have to lean forward, as if the balance of my bike is off, maybe that it's sagging in the rear? I guess that the 5000 miles I did, with over 4000 with luggage and my weight could have weakened it, but I'm not sure. Maybe I am more aware of it as last weekend I test rode a Yamaha FJR1300ES, which has the electrically adjustable suspension and the Yamaha District Manager set it for me and maybe I am now feeling the overloaded stock suspension on my bike, but I wanted to get your opinion. Maybe it's just the profile of the tires. Right now I can't justify spending the money on a different set of tires. I also already know that until I get my suspension set up/sprung properly for my weight, it's always going to be a little sub par. I am putting together savings for the DMr setup.Ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 VFR's tend to not have enough front end "weighting", that's one of the reasons the bike tends to understeer, I suspect that the bike being loaded down at back, plus the VFR's generally relaxed front end geometry, exacerbates the situation. If you haven't done so yet, you can pull up the fork legs a bit to lower the front end and quicken the steering. Doing so, helps quite a bit, but it will also help if you shim up the rear suspension to quicken up the handling a bit more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lint Posted August 15, 2014 Author Share Posted August 15, 2014 Which would be better? Shimming the shock or dropping the forks? Or is it six of one and half a dozen of the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Which would be better? Shimming the shock or dropping the forks? Or is it six of one and half a dozen of the other? Do both, but just don't go past the limits already established out there........ In my case it was around 13mm drop up front and 20mm rise (at the axle) at back. The handling's as good as it can get (but still not as good as I had with my Hawk GT. I think weight's still got something to do with it.) as there is no wagging at the bars except when I had a badly cupped front tire. It wagged slightly at medium speed deceleration.. My rear's at it's limit anyway, as my lower rear shock eye is within a hair's width of bottoming out against the dog bone on the shock rising rate linkage, at full extension....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
signal Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 My personal opinion is that you should find a suspension pro in your area, would be well worth the time, they could evaluate what is hosed on the bike and what isn't. No doubt the forks and rear shock could be shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted August 15, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 15, 2014 You could have rode mine at the Dragon with complete DMr setup . You would have started saving your pennies !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Its a combo, combination of soft suspension, the rake and trail, the front tire, and the front and rear sag. Any and all of these will change the character. So much so, at 200 lbs nakid, ive not had any issue making the stock suspension work through slight mods and adjustment, and I don't have any of the weird tire wear with some of these after market suspension purchases have. If I was to spend any money at all, it would be a custom made seat the suspension is adequately usable and accurate, you just have to get it right for the best possible set up. As far as your question, dropping the front end 10mm over oem and running les rear sag is adequate for that change handling wise, but the soft stock forks need to belt dealt with ,cause they are to soft and linear in stock form to hit anything really hard and speed. The biggest mistake people make on this bike, is trying to set up a race sag on the rear with stock shock , that will screw up the whole shebang, and why there immediately have to move to aftermarket suspension guy cause the fk d it up and are now clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcooper Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Which would be better? Shimming the shock or dropping the forks? Or is it six of one and half a dozen of the other? You'd be better off shimming the shock first, and once you top out that adjustment start raising the forks. Raising the forks has a negative effect on swingarm angle and ground clearance, whereas raising the rear through the shock improves those characteristics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lint Posted August 15, 2014 Author Share Posted August 15, 2014 You could have rode mine at the Dragon with complete DMr setup . You would have started saving your pennies !!! I probably would have started standing on street corners at night.... Thanks for the advice everyone. I mean not to sound arrogant, but I think I am at a point in my riding skills that the suspension is noticeable now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Just to add, When I thought about it, I have the feeling tht the way the angle of the VFR's engine's "V" sits pretty much vertically, it moves the center of gravity more to the rear of the bike (especially with the two cylinders leaning back towards the rear of the bike), compared to say how the cylinders of an I4 would weight the front end with it's cylinders all leaning forward towards the wheel. Ducati even leans its "V" forward, so that the front cylinder is literally horizontal. The BMW 1000 I4 sport bike leans its cylinder pretty hard forward too. IIRC, I think I even read in the past that race teams actually found the RC45 actually a bit too light up front, out of the box..... So it must be part of the whole front end lightness and resulting handling characteristics like the understeer tendencies we feel..... So IMO, it's almost a given with VFRs that you need to lower the front, and/or jack up the rear to get it to handle its best..... on top of other suspension mods or upgrades, of course..... JMOs..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lint Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 I have gone for a few rides and I can pretty much say with certainty it's the rear tire. The bike is somewhat unstable due the different profile, as the front leans inn differently than the rear. The Shinko 005 is a pretty flat profile tire, so when you lean into a curve, there is kind of a rapid progression into the lean whereas the front does so at a slightly different pace, so it is a bit of a weird feeling. I have had the Shinko spin a little coming out of a curve when I got hard on the throttle. It wasn't scary at all, actually pretty fun. Basically it felt like it "laid a darky" to use slang.I definitely want to get new tires. I'm sure if I was commuting and not riding hard in the canyons, the Shinko tires would be fine, and I guess I am lacking confidence in my tires due to the different profiles, but when I ran the PR3s I never have been given pause about the tires, so to have to think about them is a little sapping of confidence. Hell, I bet if I just had the Shinko in front it would be better, but at the pace I ride, I just want the tires to be the last thing I am concerned with. I can get Bridgestone BT-016 near me for $164 a set and I can get PR-4 for $300, if they do the install. if I bring the wheels in, it's only $20 a tire.I'll be saving my money up and do this and in the mean time, riding a lot more carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted August 21, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 21, 2014 I will say this, after having Jamie rework the suspension on the '09 and the '01, I can really tell if the tires are an issue! I've been sticking with Michelin tires, but I actually went with a PP3 front and a PR2 rear on the 09 and it feels like a pretty good combo. I have PP3s F/R on the '01 and I have no complaints, I actually put PP3s on the Duc now too even though the rear is 180 instead of the original 170. I'm happy with the current setup on all three bikes. Although I need to get the '09 on the curves a little more, I still have a 1/4 chicken strip on the front and the rear is starting to square off a little! Hopefully on the Golden State ride I can remedy that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Road 3 will last more than double over a bt16, you make try a BT21 and a bt 16 front, still wont out do the road 3 life wise though, as long as you can get the road 2's, I seriously doubt road4 beats the road 2 in life ,performance and price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lint Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 My first set of PR3 lasted about 9800 miles, running them hard enough to make the rear edges blue. This past set I didn't really track the mileage, but I am guessing about the same, including my trip to Nashville and Deals gap and most of the way back. As I have never felt any of this prior to the different rear tire, I am going with tire mismatch. I did notice today that my Shinko has a nice blue color on the left side of the tire from last weekend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voided76 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 The new Shinko Verge 2X is really working out on my bike since I got it back up and running! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted August 22, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 22, 2014 The new Shinko Verge 2X is really working out on my bike since I got it back up and running! $205 a set to the door not bad . Any mile's yet ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lint Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 The new Shinko Verge 2X is really working out on my bike since I got it back up and running! I'd like to hear more about them. I emailed Shinko USA about the 005 turning blue, as I was curious of the "official" take on the whole matter and I received this back. Great question! 'Blueing' of a tire is what happens when the tire gets extremely hot and the oils begin to work their way out of the tire. This usually happens due to running too low of air pressure (which causes excessive heat buildup) and running the tire extremely hard in the corners. That being said they may still be fine to ride on but usually getting the tires that hot will make them only last a few (maybe 4-5) heat cycles. I would check your air pressure and also suspension settings and make sure everything is okay. Sam Tanzer I Shinko Brand Manager I WPS Inc. Phone (208) 376-8400 ext. 3228 I Fax (208) 375-8901 I E-mail Stanzer@shinkotireusa.com I then asked about the Verge 2X as well as something else and I got this back The 016 V2X (Verge 2X) is basically the 011 Verge and the 010 Apex combined into one dual compound tire. Hands down the best tire we’ve ever made. I’ve been running them on my person machine (’08 ZX-6R) with fantastic results. I have over 8500 miles on them and they still have plenty of tread and they have never failed to give me traction in dry or wet conditions. I live in Idaho where we have lots of mountain roads that I ride on a daily basis, and let’s just say I don’t take it easy. I go through a set of knee sliders about every other month. The profile and steel belted construction of these tires are light years beyond that of the 005. The 005 is actually what got me hooked on Shinko years ago and it is a really ‘good’ all-around tire. It just is a little flat, and doesn’t last. I’ll send you a little info on the 016 V2X and I would say it is right up there with the PR3&4 and almost half the price. I think next time you need tires you should definitely try it and you be pleasantly surprised. What's your take on them? I read a review on WebBikeWorld by a guy riding an FJR with a lot of two up and the rear didn't last long. But I ride solo and my Viffer is a lot lighter with a lot less torque. FWIW, I can get pr4 installed for around $380 and the V2X installed for about $270, both prices are based on me riding the bike in. If I bring the wheels, it's less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dustin Posted August 23, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 23, 2014 The new Shinko Verge 2X is really working out on my bike since I got it back up and running!$205 a set to the door not bad . Any mile's yet ? Where did you find that price for the 2X? I've only ever seen sets for $280 otd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lint Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 Revzilla has them for that price. Wheels In Motion in Canoga Park had them fir about that price if you are local. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dustin Posted August 23, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 23, 2014 Thank you for the heads up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lint Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 Also, AMT has them for $200 in our size. I don't know about shipping tho. Nvm, free shipping http://www.americanmototire.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=892_1104 Revzilla 180/55-17 http://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/shinko-016-verge-2x-rear-tires?utm_source=product&kwd=&gclid=CKjq-4rdqMACFcRffgodaBoA_Q Revzilla 120/70-17 http://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/shinko-016-verge-2x-front-tires?utm_source=product&kwd=&gclid=CO7pmardqMACFZJcfgodDaUAzg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I can understand trying the stinko, if you ran the best and just looking for a compromise, atleast you know where the bar is set and be able to compare pros and cons. To me all you see is price. A road 2 is about $156, and a ppwer original front is about $100. That's $250+ for a very decent handling , performance and life package. That's not my favorite handling package, but you cant beat it on a budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dustin Posted August 23, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 23, 2014 Regarding price: it's going to be hard to beat my current tires; Avon 3D Ultra Sport on closeout at Motorcycle Superstore. $130 for the set! Good tire, too. I'd say it was equal to a Pilot Power 2CT but with a little less feedback from the front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lint Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 I'm not solely price driven. I've run BT016 and PR3 and I have really loved the PR3 tires. Excellent traction, long life etc. I also like to try new things and I guess it's kind of a root for the underdog part of me. I am just curious if they are a great tire, good tire, bad tire, etc. I have tried new products in the past from smaller less known companies and I have found some excellent products. I've also found some crap from big companies, hence my curiosity. Dustin, I just checked Motorcycle Superstore and the Avon 3D Ultra Sport are about $130 for just the rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dustin Posted August 23, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 23, 2014 Dustin, I just checked Motorcycle Superstore and the Avon 3D Ultra Sport are about $130 for just the rear. Yeah, it was a short window for the closeout price. Funny how 'closeout' is just another word for sale now. They continue to sell the tires at full price. Still, my Pilot Road 3 remain my favourite tire, even when you factor in cost. The confidence they gave me in winter was astounding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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