Member Contributer landlover Posted April 8, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted April 8, 2014 Hi, I am a returning rider. When going through curves should my eyes be basically as far as I can see the road or where the curve straightens out? I want to look through the curve but it's like my brain won't trust my eyes or brain says that is to far away. Does that make any sense? It's as if I am looking to far ahead but my gut says look through the turn and the bike will follow. I hope this makes some kind of sense, trying to stick to the MSF recommendation of outside inside outside for turn but arms or eyes are not trusted. Any advice will be appreciated. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted April 8, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted April 8, 2014 Lookin for the scene of the crash !! No but really I am looking up the road for trouble ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Recalcitrance Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 What did you ride before? How long did ride before taking a break? Yes, your bike goes where your eyes go. Some advice that sounds silly but really works is to get on a push bike and pedal around a safe, open area with turns. Go, look, push, lean. It works. If you don't feel comfortable with the speed, lean, and focus, then slow down and look farther ahead. When that starts to feel better, go faster and keep looking ahead. As I tell my students, the bike is not what you're playing with. It's your life. Baby steps, even if you are a returning rider. Some guys here have a lifetime of experience and a few of them admit to feeling wobbly after only a winter spent off the bike. Good for you for asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer OutlawsJustice Posted April 8, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted April 8, 2014 Look as far through the turn as you can, look for your next turn point or down the next straight. You brain will trust your eyes, but fear will make you peek at things you should not be looking at, then is when it all goes to pieces! So keep thinking, looking far ahead and all will be fine. (Vision controls everything we do on a bike, including braking and throttle!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted April 8, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted April 8, 2014 Tell you something I do, well I'll wait till the end of the thread , dont wanna hijack your post ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer landlover Posted April 8, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 8, 2014 What did you ride before? How long did ride before taking a break? Yes, your bike goes where your eyes go. Some advice that sounds silly but really works is to get on a push bike and pedal around a safe, open area with turns. Go, look, push, lean. It works. If you don't feel comfortable with the speed, lean, and focus, then slow down and look farther ahead. When that starts to feel better, go faster and keep looking ahead. As I tell my students, the bike is not what you're playing with. It's your life. Baby steps, even if you are a returning rider. Some guys here have a lifetime of experience and a few of them admit to feeling wobbly after only a winter spent off the bike. Good for you for asking. Same bike, rode for three years with about seven thousand miles and then took about three years off. Went to this route that is known for it's curves and have never done so many curves in such a short period of time. Look through the turn and baby steps. It just bugs me because looking through the turn is what my gut says but I can't get my brain to trust my gut. Look far ahead and then feel nervous and look right in front of me and I know or think that does no good because I am already there and it messes up the line at least I think it does. Again hope this makes some kind of sense. Thank You! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer landlover Posted April 8, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 8, 2014 Lookin for the scene of the crash !! Yes, part of it. Never done this route before and have never had so many curves at one time. I want to be a good motorcyclist and looking through the turn is what I always hear and read but there were times where I just got nervous and questioned is this the right way to do this. Trying to make sure I don't pick up any bad habits and I respect the people and advice on this board. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted April 8, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted April 8, 2014 I have heard it 1000 times and read 1000 times "Ride Your Ride " dont be pressure into riding faster then your comfortable with. And EVERYONE on this site does exactly that . If something does happen and you get separated dont panic the group will be waiting for you before the next intersection . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mk2davis Posted April 8, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted April 8, 2014 It takes time to learn to see what you are looking at. Baby step your way into looking further and further into the turn. Practice, and be patient. These are skills that many of us are still practices. At least I am! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted April 8, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted April 8, 2014 Who knows you mite be waiting on us !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monk Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 What did you ride before? How long did ride before taking a break? Yes, your bike goes where your eyes go. Some advice that sounds silly but really works is to get on a push bike and pedal around a safe, open area with turns. Go, look, push, lean. It works. If you don't feel comfortable with the speed, lean, and focus, then slow down and look farther ahead. When that starts to feel better, go faster and keep looking ahead. As I tell my students, the bike is not what you're playing with. It's your life. Baby steps, even if you are a returning rider. Some guys here have a lifetime of experience and a few of them admit to feeling wobbly after only a winter spent off the bike. Good for you for asking. Same bike, rode for three years with about seven thousand miles and then took about three years off. Went to this route that is known for it's curves and have never done so many curves in such a short period of time. Look through the turn and baby steps. It just bugs me because looking through the turn is what my gut says but I can't get my brain to trust my gut. Look far ahead and then feel nervous and look right in front of me and I know or think that does no good because I am already there and it messes up the line at least I think it does. Again hope this makes some kind of sense. Thank You! Try this ...... instead of looking all the way to the vanishing point of any given turn, eye ball just far enough ahead so as to see(focus) pot holes etc. Now... while doing this use your peripheral(any where around the edge of your vision, not just side to side) vision to watch the vanishing point. You don't need to get stuck in tunnel vision, but basically find a comfort zone distance to look at, and start thinking about using your peripheral. Works great... as far as trusting, driving a semi with a lane one foot wider on each side proves to me that the only way to keep it centered is to look way down the road, and trust your brain to compute the right track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer vfrAustin Posted April 8, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted April 8, 2014 I took my racing school a long time ago but the best Cornering advise came from a cycling couch from when I raced bicycles. Look at everything and nothing. You should not fixate on any one thing but take it all in. I try to keep my head up in corners and look toward apex and then exit down the road. That really slows the world down and you tend to naturally move and shift your body as needed. Being faster should just be a product of comfort in the corners. Head up, eyes down the road. If you are chopping corners into multiple turns you are looking too short sighted. Easier said then done. I still have to force it at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MaxSwell Posted April 8, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted April 8, 2014 When turning I try to keep my vision focused on the outside lane marker of my particular lane. On right turns I talk to myself: "right turn, push on the right grip, watch the centerline, and kiss the mirror". On left turns "left turn, push on the left grip, watch the fogline, kiss the mirror". (The "fogline" is the (usually) white line painted on the outside of the road.) The best advice I ever recieved was from RDguy. Kiss The Mirror. That means moving your head toward the inside-of-the-turn mirror. For example: if you are doing a freeway coverleaf, the sharpe righthand loops, if you enter the turn with your head in an unadjusted position, your bike will be leaned over at a particular angle. Then, midway throught the turn, you move your head toward the mirror, you will find your bike's lean angle reduced to compensate for the weight of your head moving toward the inside of the curve. This reduced lean angle makes me less fearful of the tires sliding out from underneath me, adding to my confidence. And confidence it crucial to proper riding. For most of us, on dry roads with good tires, the bike can handle more lean angle than our brains feel comfortable with. It takes practice to overcome this fear; with practice comes confidence and with confidence fear is reduced and one achieves more of the bikes capabilities. Along with all this, Monk's point about using your peripheral vision, which I find to requires a conscious effort, is important. With practice, one can train onesself to focus on a particular point yet still be aware of things going on around the point of focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donnykaboom Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 first few months of riding i couldn't get over the thought that if i didn't make the corner, i was going to go off the road and hit tree,boulder or other things. if you look at something the bike is going to track that way. check out any pro rider in a photo and their heads will be perpendicular to the road. best piece of advice i ever got was,"if you don't think you're going to make the corner, MAKE THE CORNER ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monk Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 I took not racing school a long time ago but the best Cornering advise came from a cycling couch from when I raced bicycles. Look at everything and nothing. You should not fixate on any one thing but take it all in. I try to keep my head up in corners and look toward apex and then exit down the road. That really slows the world down and you tend to naturally move and shift your body as needed. Being faster should just be a product of comfort in the corners. Head up, eyes down the road. If you are chopping corners into multiple turns you are looking too short sighted. Easier said then done. I still have to force it at times. You reminded me of a way to "word" how "Close" in front of us "not" to look......... If it's seems like the ground is going by fast, then we need to look further out, till it slows down. Good one, thx........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Belfry Posted April 9, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted April 9, 2014 first few months of riding i couldn't get over the thought that if i didn't make the corner, i was going to go off the road and hit tree,boulder or other things. if you look at something the bike is going to track that way. check out any pro rider in a photo and their heads will be perpendicular to the road. best piece of advice i ever got was,"if you don't think you're going to make the corner, MAKE THE CORNER ! I was riding a moderately twisty road in the hills, at a moderately brisk pace on a nice day (little traffic, dry roads). I was transitioning fairly smoothly from left- to right-hand turns, looking through the turns to the next straight between them. Somehow, however, I failed to notice a depression or drop (not really a pothole) on the line of the current left-hander. When I hit it the suspension compressed hard and when it rebounded the bike stood up straight. In what seemed like minutes but must have only been a fraction of a second, the following happened: I was looking straight off the edge of the road into space (blue sky) on a bike that was no longer leaned over. The reptilian part of my brain (instinct) urgently advised getting on the brakes as hard as possible. Luckily the neomammalian part (abstraction, planning) was able to override and I quickly resumed my lean, counter-steered for all I was worth (the bars felt uncharacteristically heavy), and I forced myself to maintain the throttle and look through to the next straight. And, as we all know while calmly sitting at our computers using our cerebral neocortexes, the bike carved through the turn as it should. (I did steal a quick glance down at the road flashing by to see the front wheel kissing the white line!) Had I attempted to brake I would have launched into space--there was only a three-foot wide loose gravel shoulder. My experience, reading and training made it clear what I should do, but there was definitely a split second when I had to will myself to do it and trust that it was the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFR4Lee Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 if you don't think you're going to make the corner, MAKE THE CORNER ! I haven't seen that quote before, bit I agree. Similar to Belfrys story I was proceeding at a moderate quick pace on Little Tujunga, and came to a left hander strewn all over with gravel and dirt. Braked hard in a straight line. Then I saw the fog line coming and downhill cliff on the other side. Pitched it into the corner, and it went around. Phew! Remember, The Mountain Always Wins. For another example youtube Frank Zappa Billy the Mountain. A mountain is something you don't want to f*** with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer OutlawsJustice Posted April 10, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted April 10, 2014 "If you think you can or you think you can't, your probably right" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer NCSam Posted April 21, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted April 21, 2014 Read "The Pace" at least three times!! http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/77634-tmac-a-refresher-of-the-pace-for-everyone/?p=942213 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 There are a number of books that will provide thorough answers to your questions. I still pull the "Proficient Motorcycling" books off the shelf for a read. One thing that will help - if you aren't already doing it - is to cock your head in the turn. So, in a sharp left-hander, cock your head slightly toward your right shoulder to keep your eyes level with the road as you search through the turn. Obviously, it's the opposite for a right-hander. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted April 21, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted April 21, 2014 ^^ Make sure it is The Pace 2.0 with updated trail braking info... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kebrider Posted April 21, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted April 21, 2014 So sometimes I either look through the turn deciding which side to pass Switchblade on or I look in mirror trying to figure out which side Switchblade will pass me on. Seriously, I combine the look ahead with the close inspection for gravel when setting up turn-in. Ask Whitelightning about my keen eye for gravel. KEB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kebrider Posted April 21, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted April 21, 2014 ^^ Make sure it is The Pace 2.0 with updated trail braking info... I need to catch up, did they finally get on with the more brake equals more traction and tighter turn philosophy that Fast Freddie teaches? I have no problem braking all the way through a turn and do it all the time when I am not obeying any of the other Pace suggestions. When indulging in triple digit hi-jinx I used to find it an invaluable tool to compensate for my soft stock suspension. The alternative would have been to invest in better suspension but I never really wanted to give myself another reason to ride fast. The NC has cured me for now. KEB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted April 21, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted April 21, 2014 So sometimes I either look through the turn deciding which side to pass Switchblade on or I look in mirror trying to figure out which side Switchblade will pass me on. Seriously, I combine the look ahead with the close inspection for gravel when setting up turn-in. Ask Whitelightning about my keen eye for gravel. KEB That's funny. Should I post the video of you on the Grom running the Dragon ? Grom with Ohlin suspension . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted April 21, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted April 21, 2014 The Pace 2.0 http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/09/16/become-a-better-street-rider-with-the-pace-motorcycle-safety-and-riding-skills/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.