Member Contributer Dutchy Posted May 4, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted May 4, 2013 Question for those of you that did... What will be the result of lowering the front a bit? By how much did you raise the stanchions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 I will measure mine when I get home and tell you.........the front drop on my 4th Gen that is...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 You lower the front and raise the rear of the bike to quicken the steering transition/handling, so that the bike would be easier to handle and go faster in tight turns. The VFRs understeer quite a bit as originally designed and set up at the factory and it can take quite a bit of adjustment and not feel too "nervous"/twitchy. The top of the fork caps (the round portion, not the adjuster and hex shaped extension) on my bike is 52mm above the top of the raised brushed finished portion of my top triple clamp While on the rear, I added enough auto body shims on the top mounting clevis for the rear shock to raised the tail roughly, about 22mm higher from original. I think I pretty much maxed out the height adjustments for the front and rear, as going lower up front might cause things to start dragging on the fairing when I lean it over hard on turns. I also have just enough body shims on the rear clevis so that I still have full engagement for the threads on the mounting nut to the threaded clevis bolt. Adding more shims will also make the "dogbone" link on your rising rate linkage at the rear hit the bottom eye of the shock at full shock extension (on the center stand), so you have to watch out for that as a limiting factor on how high you can go with the rear. The bike was totally transformed, and I have lots more confidence and feel on the front end of the bike, compared to before I did the suspension height mods. You might also consider going in little steps with the adjustments to a point where you will feel more comfortable. You do not have to exactly match the maximum values I arrived at as different riders have different riding styles and things like rider weight and position on the bike will also factor in..... I was very dissapointed with my 4th gens handling in the twisties, as it was nowhere near what my Hawk GT 650 that I had before the VFR handled on the same roads. With the mods I did, I think I got pretty close to what I wanted, but still not what I remembered my Hawk could do (that bike just had the best feeling front end in the twisties that I ever felt on a bike so far).... I think with the 4th gen VFR's heavier weight and larger size, there might be no way to really match the Hawk's handling with just these suspension adjustments. Have fun doing the suspension height adjustments on your bike. As doing such is the easiest, most cost effective way of making your VFR handle much better..... Beck 95 VFR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted May 5, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted May 5, 2013 mmmmhhh, where would I add the shims to raise the rear?? I have seen modified shocks of earleir model where one could do that. But on a 4th gen the mounting is with 2 horizontal bolts no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Mohawk Posted May 5, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted May 5, 2013 The top bolt for the shock is fitted to a Y shaped clevice hanger, the single leg passes through the frame & is secured with a nut, there is normally enough spare thread to remove the nut, drop the hanger through the frame, slip on between 1 & 4mm of washers, then pop back into frame & replace the nut. The nut should always have full engagement. If there's not enough, then get a new Y made by a local machine shop. For every 1mm added to the shock length, you get between 10-20mm of ride at the rear wheel due to the ratios in the shock linkage & the length of the swingarm ! So a couple of mm will make a noticeable difference. One thing to watch out for is if you keep the centre stand, you cam measure the effect. As standard the VFR has approx 25mm clearance under the rear tyre when on the centre stand. If you lower the front this will increase & you will find it harder to put on the stand. If you raise the rear it will return it top normal stand effort & if you raise it further the stand will be easier to use, but be aware that you need some clearance under the rear tyre Oprah the bike will be unstable on the centre stand ! I have my 5th gen set to 12mm under the rear tyre, just be careful where you park it !!!! Have fun, the VFR is very stable & I have the front down 10mm & the rear raised by approx 45mm at the wheel :) Handles lip K my old CBR600 now, even better with the correct tyre pressures !!!!! Oops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NakedViffer Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 The top bolt for the shock is fitted to a Y shaped clevice hanger, the single leg passes through the frame & is secured with a nut, there is normally enough spare thread to remove the nut, drop the hanger through the frame, slip on between 1 & 4mm of washers, then pop back into frame & replace the nut. The nut should always have full engagement. If there's not enough, then get a new Y made by a local machine shop. For every 1mm added to the shock length, you get between 10-20mm of ride at the rear wheel due to the ratios in the shock linkage & the length of the swingarm ! So a couple of mm will make a noticeable difference. One thing to watch out for is if you keep the centre stand, you cam measure the effect. As standard the VFR has approx 25mm clearance under the rear tyre when on the centre stand. If you lower the front this will increase & you will find it harder to put on the stand. If you raise the rear it will return it top normal stand effort & if you raise it further the stand will be easier to use, but be aware that you need some clearance under the rear tyre Oprah the bike will be unstable on the centre stand ! I have my 5th gen set to 12mm under the rear tyre, just be careful where you park it !!!! Have fun, the VFR is very stable & I have the front down 10mm & the rear raised by approx 45mm at the wheel :) Handles lip K my old CBR600 now, even better with the correct tyre pressures !!!!! Oops. Its actually a 1:3 ratio, as in 1 mm will get you about 3mm at the rear wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted July 7, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 7, 2013 Quick question.... The top nut under which i slip the rings... How much nm torque to tighten???? I can only find the soec for the horizontal bolt that holds the actual shock... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglasthecook Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Supposedly our rear shocks come with ride height adjustment, but I'm not 100% sure about that. I believe that is what the red anodized nut is for at the bottom of the shock. If you still have your shock set-up instructions, it may explain, or the website may have some info on it. I never really messed with mine, as Rudiger would always set my bike up for which ever track I was going to. No Rudiger in the States, so now I have to learn how to set up my suspension. I do know that I have to get my left fork seal replaced, as there is fluid leaking out of it. Anyway, do some digging into the red nut at the bottom of the shock, and see what that's for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmythecop Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 I rode Cornercarver's bike and then asked him how much he dropped the triples. He said "I dont know, what about you?", and I didnt know either. Then we measured each and they were exactly the same, so there must be a sweet spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted July 7, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 7, 2013 Hi Doug, our Wilbers donot have height adjustors, that was an extra option. So timmy, how much over oem did you drop? For thr 4th gen the measurement in the manual is 39mm. Set it to 46mm. At the rear i plan to place 2 orings, each 2mm. But i need the torque spec for the bolt that holds the clevis.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglasthecook Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 For your year, all rear shock bolts get torqued to 40-50 NM, or 29-36 ft lbs according to my manual. Sorry it took so long to get rhose numbers to you, but I had to locate my manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmythecop Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 But i need the torque spec for the bolt that holds the clevis.... RFT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted July 8, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 8, 2013 Found it! 45Nm............... I stopped yesterday after loosening the bolt, had another BBQ waiting... I intend to support the rear swing arm with a small jack and lower it so the clevis will drop. Will this drop enough (for me to slide the o-tings on) with the rear rim on? Or should i remove the rear rim (thus allowing for a larger "drop") I rather use the wisdom here than find out myself and cock things up. I'm a bean counter, not a fully trained mechanic..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglasthecook Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Removing the rear wheel will give you more access. As far as the swing arm is considered, I don't remember supporting mine when I changed out my rear shock, but that was also several years ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted July 8, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 8, 2013 For future reference, even with the rear wheel off, things donot drop enough for the clavis to come out. You need to remove the bolt that holds the top of the shock in the clavis. You pivot the shock backwards and it comes out, allowing you to put o rings on. But to get to the bots you need to remove battery, battery box (the metal part). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 You can avoid having to disassemble your clevis upper shock eye connection by just using "U" shaped auto body shims. using body shims, you will not have to take the clevis threaded portion out of the frame mounting hole completely as you do for regular washers. With body shims you just slip them in after you loosen the clevis mounting nut......but remember to position the opening of the "u" on the shims towards the back so they will not fall off if for some reason, the clevis nut loosens up while riding..... I have mine shimmed this way for many years and miles now with no problems... Good thing with body shims too is they come in a variety of thicknesses so you can fine tune the amount you raise the rear of the bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted July 9, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 9, 2013 Too late now...... ;-) Never seen u shaped spacers before...... I did consider for one moment to cut into the o rings, but decided to go for the whole enchilada ;-) Will take the bike out tomorrow, keen to see if i feel a difference in handling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted July 10, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 10, 2013 One is never too old too learn........ Never realised how much change a few milimetres make.... Dropped the front stanchions 6mm and slotted two 2mm washers under the clavis. I now really feel the PP upfront is doing what it is paid to do.... cornering! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer spinalator Posted July 10, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted July 10, 2013 You will have a hoot on track day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglasthecook Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 You never sampled what my VFR had to offer, you've seen what's it's capable of, and should have tried it out. The change of direction is very effort-less, and well you know about the brakes, you saw what Superchode (Kevin) did... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted July 10, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 10, 2013 Laying down a darkie with the front tire was impressive (and scary). While I was underneath her skirt tank, I also remove the air intake nozzle rubber thingie. The resonance out off the airbox is kinda fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglasthecook Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 While I was underneath her skirt tank, I also remove the air intake nozzle rubber thingie. The resonance out off the airbox is kinda fun! Just don't let the Polizei hear you, as they'll pull you over, and write you a big fine!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 :fing02: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sereethai Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 10mm is a good compromise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer rangemaster Posted July 10, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted July 10, 2013 Dutchy- As a fellow 4th GEN owner, I'm very interested in how you like the -6mm in the front and +6mm in the back. That is what I was going to try but just the front first and then the back. Would you have done more or less or do you like how it is now? I'm running PR2s front and back, the rear being a 180. Many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted July 11, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 11, 2013 Hello Rangemaster, I am well pleased with the change. A true change, been riding her for almost 16 years so feel the difference. Reading Beck's post that he felt he maxed out the changes (52mm measurement upfront, 22 at the rear) and that ratio shim vs raising is 1:3 made me pick/guestimate what I would start with. I looked how much the clavis bolt sticks through the nut, so see how much I could insert while make sure the bolt would still be sticking out a bit. Only having 2mm washers, I decided on 2, so raising the rear +/-12mm. I didnot measure before and after I now realise... duh......... At the front, OEM sticks out I think 41mm (39mm till the little ridge). So between Beck's 52mm there is 11mm to play with. With raising the rear about half what Beck did, I took about half of the 11m to play with. Having said that, I will not be fiddling with a mm more or less upfront, I like the new feeling. She turns quicker in tight turns for sure (was carving up some dikes). On the motorway, getting up to 200kmh there is no detriment to the straight line handling. Only a prolonged blast on the german Autobahn will be the acid test..... speeding in NL 50 klicks over is an instand ban. I ended up removing the tank, but as Beck wrote, getting u shaped spacers is the way to go. You simply prop a bit of wood under the tank, keep all the lines attached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Dutchy
Question for those of you that did...
What will be the result of lowering the front a bit?
By how much did you raise the stanchions?
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