...a Guy Walks Into A Honda Dealership...

[Guest typhon]

and asks about the new 2013 VFR1200 DCT. The salesman informs me that the only model they have left is the standard and that they won't be getting any DCT models in, because Honda has discontinued them in the U.S.

Does anyone know if this is true? Does this guy know what he is talking about? I would hate to buy a bike that has already lost dealer support right out of the box.

Thanks all!

[Yokel]

Well, history is thus:

Imported in 2010, sales were flat. Some are still on showroom floors, NEW.

2011, no VFR1200's imported to U.S.

2012, it's BAAAACK. Some units still to be found.

2013 back in the States.

Sales have not been strong on this machine. While Honda made what is (in my opinion) a fantastic machine, they didn't hit the proverbial head of the nail. The mass opinion is that it's too much money and doesn't really *fit* anywhere for whatever reasons, (tank too small, weird technology, pricepoint too high, too heavy etc...)

Yeah, whatever. Compared to it's most direct competitor which in my view is the BMW, the pricing is fine. Not to mention, dealers are making deals on them.

The engine is flat out intoxicating... unbelievable power everywhere. Handling is excellent over 5mph, comfort is decent... it's a do-all for me. I absolutely love my 1200.

I wouldn't worry about loss of dealer support, and I've heard no rumblings that it will be discontinued. Your dealer may not order any more because of the sales volume on this model, but that's far from Honda abandoning their tour-de-force of tech.

As an owner, I have absolutely zero regret buying this machine. Even if Honda did discontinue it (sincerely doubt it), I'd feel the same way. It is truly unique and one HELL of a machine.

Let me add:

Ride it. You'll know if you're going to buy it within 2 miles.

[crazybrother]

Yep, I totally agree... Love it

[Yokel]

Here's one of the most honest assessments of the 1200 you'll find after being lived in.

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/70073-1-year-later-a-review/

A good read.

[Polarbear]

I can't afford to test ride one... I'm afraid I will have to get it...

I'll ride the wheels off of my 6th gen that only has 50k km on it...

C

[Guest Recalcitrance]

Tested the launch and didn't like it. Curious to test the 2013. I hear/read amazing things.

The story with the 1200 echoes the fate of the Blackbird. Amazing machine and IMO, the best Honda's ever made. But it didn't "fit" with any particular market enough and met an early end in the American market. Engine, Transmission, Delivery, Performance, all were beyond words. The design was not popular with many people, and only a few had immediate love for the lines and fullness of the body.

It was sad to see the XX end but at least they're still readily available in Europe.

The VFR has carried a hugely impressive record for over a decade, but the market had to change tides at some point.

Love it or Hate it, the 1200 is following in the footsteps of the XX, albeit with a much shorter span.

The 2013 is receiving on average much higher reviews, but I did read something a couple months back that Honda was discontinuing the VFR line this year. Though reviews for the '13 have drastically improved from the previous model, I doubt it will be enough to make Honda change their mind.

Fingers Crossed.

(I'm still praying for them to bring back the 1100.)

[Alaskan]

My problem with a DCT is that I actually appreciate my imperfect shits. They allow me to recognize the shift that is REALLY good - especially the downshift - and I compare the good shifts with the less-good ones, moving toward The Light. Therefore, I don't ever see myself buying a DCT bike. It would deprive me of enjoyment . . .

[Sweeper]

He said .... I actually appreciate my imperfect shits........

Must be at least as old as me.

[Alaskan]

He said .... I actually appreciate my imperfect shits........

Must be at least as old as me.

I am an old guy. LOL, Sweeper!

[Guest Recalcitrance]

Imperfect shiFts....

Typo Dejavu.

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/74344-question-for-the-chain-gurus/page-2

[Volfy]

Have to agree with the comparison with 1100XX. I've ridden a friend's 'Bird and it is fantastic machine very similar to the VFR1200's ergo and overall riding dynamics. What killed the 1100XX - at least here in the US - was the rise of the Busa. Folks who buy those open-class machine are predominantly HP junkies, preferring raw performance over subtle refinement, straight line speed over cornering prowess. Kawi drank the coolaid and served up the ZX14. Honda didn't want to follow in the frey and bowed out.

With the VFR1200, Honda was instead gunning for BMW's K1200S/1300S. These are primarily designed for European taste. K1200S/1300S haven't exactly enjoyed widespread popularity here in the US, either. I can't quote any hard numbers, but judging by the traffic in UK's VFR1200 forums, compared to this one, I'd say riders on the other side of the pond like this sort of machines a lot more than US riders.

What Honda needs to understand, however, is that if they want to charge BMW money and lure some of their clientele into their tent, they have to serve up what buyers in this class expect. BMW can claim a whole bunch of optional luxury gizmos that VFR1200 (at launch) lacked - ESA, TC, grip heaters, quick shifter, etc. Honda added TC later in 2012, but still falls way short on the options list. Regardless what we individually prefer, people paying for luxury cars expect to be pampered with technology and amenities. Or at the very least have those options available. Same goes for bikes.

[Guest]

Thanks for all of the input. A lot of reading and good info. I have found many dealers on Cycle Trader that have these bikes still on the floor and willing to cut deals and ship to my location. Now, the delicate process of buying a bike from one dealer and having my closest dealer service it. That's not a fun scenario any way you cut it. However, I still like the bike and with some of the pricing I have seen, it seems like a good deal.

[enzed_viffer]

Thanks for all of the input. A lot of reading and good info. I have found many dealers on Cycle Trader that have these bikes still on the floor and willing to cut deals and ship to my location. Now, the delicate process of buying a bike from one dealer and having my closest dealer service it. That's not a fun scenario any way you cut it. However, I still like the bike and with some of the pricing I have seen, it seems like a good deal.

I doubt that dealers here have significantly discounted 1200s available, because they're generally not like that. Just as well, because I did the dough from my mother's estate (she died last year) that wasn't spent on the house, on toys: Sena gear, new helmet, and (the big ticket item) a car. After reading all the positive comments, I think I might have been tempted. The thing was, I'd decided there wasn't really anything around that would do anything my bike doesn't do. However, in the last couple of weeks, the VFR has started feeling a bit rough. It had a big service nearly 6 months ago (the first I've ever paid for), and was really smooth. Now it has an annoying vibe around 4-5k rpm, the suspension feels like it needs a service, and I'm just not enjoying it like I used to. Doesn't help that my riding for the last 15 months has been ALL commuting - 15 or so minutes each way.

[Mohawk]

You all missed the biggest problem with the 1200. Most VFR buyers said they wanted more cubes & less weight, there were also mumbling s about the looks of the 6th gen. So what did Honda do ? They gave us more cubes, 200 more than required IMO, then they failed to remove weight, & worst of all IMO, they created a turd as far as looks go. I've never read a single review when it was launched that complimented it's looks.

Quirky looks have been a BMW bike sales point, but this is a Honda & now they are rolling out the VFR1200 style to many of their other bikes & I for one hate it. Others may like it, fair enough each to their own, but not enough like it to buy it in any numbers, even in Europe it's been a sales flop, partly due to price, but mainly due to looks & post ownership reviews.

Myth busters may have proved you can polish a turd, but Honda could do much worse than she'd 40Kg from this think & give it a new set of clothes, then the engine would sell the bike. It reminds me of the last Ford Scorpio made, fantastic car, but you wouldn't be seen dead in it. With bikes part of the joy of ownership, is looking at them. Park a VFR1200 at most bike meets & they don't get a second look, to boring/fuggly.

[Volfy]

I hear a lot of this sort of complaints from previous gen VFR owners. Truth is: regardless of the VFR designation, Honda doesn't view the 1200 as a replacement for the 800. If they did, they would've made it a 900 or 1000 tops, and stayed chain drive to keep the weight down. They didn't. They benchmarked the K1200S instead. The similarities are remarkable, right down to the MSRP. Honda essentially terminated the VFR800 line, same way they did the 1100XX. That's unfortunate, given the loyal cult-like following the VFR line has created over the years.

As for the looks, well... that is, of course, subjective. I've owned 9 bikes in the past 2yrs and each is a beauty to my eyes, none more so than the '08 Aprilia RSV1000R Factory Red Lion. To me, there isn't a late model motorcycle I find utterly distasteful. Even the odd-looking ones have a certain quirky charm to them. I see "looks" being used more often to justify not liking a bike, than to justify owning one. And that's fine. As a local S1000RR rider here once remarked about his bike's, uhh... quasimodo-like front fascia: "...that's for other people to fuss over. From the pilot seat, I only see the power and handling."

[EhViffer]

Well put Volfy. I think you have exactly pinpointed why the 1200 is what it is. It is not what VFR 800 owners asked for. Honda did not miss the mark they simply chose to ignore it and create something new. The evolution of the VFR 800 looks like it has come to an end, at least for now. If you take the 1200 for what it is versus what it is not it is a fantastic motorcycle. Superbly balanced, great engine, powerful brakes,long distance comfortable riding position, low maintenance, smile every single time I ride it.

[Duc2V4]

What I find ironic is that the MotoGP bikes are running V4 motors, have been for some time, then Honda announces it will be building a RC30/45 like V4 for public consumption again (albeit at a much higher price point), at the same time they drop the VFR800 and change the VFR to a somewhat different type of bike. i.e. Shaft drive, larger displacement, etc.

I am very biased towards the VFR and the V4 motor in general, I have been ever since I rode a V45 Magna all those years ago. I never really liked the CBR line it seemed like a bike they had to make so Honda could say "we have one too". Although I get that economics drives which models get built and which get the chopping block, but I am glad I was able to get the last of a generation (at least here in the states) but I would have much more preferred that Honda kept making the VFR800 or at least it's generation of bike. Who knows maybe Honda will figure it out and find that this blood line has a bigger cult following than what they thought, or that the new RC replacement will generate more interest in an "affordable" V4 again, and drives Honda back to the drawing board. Although I cannot personally get on board with the VFR1200, it's just not my taste, I do believe that it has the soul and the spirit of the bike and motor we all enjoy so much. I hope that Honda doesn't drop this one too!

[luvtoleanit]

Had the same thoughts until prices were slashed. At 10k, it's a fantastic machine. Comfortable, and has what it was lacking for many, many years, HP and torque. It handles very well, and is superbly balanced. I had to eat crow when I bought mine. I was wrong. At 16k, I would have never thought of owning one, even at 12k, same thing. But at 10k, it's a big time buy and they priced got me.

[Guest]

I doubt that dealers here have significantly discounted 1200s available, because they're generally not like that. Just as well, because I did the dough from my mother's estate (she died last year) that wasn't spent on the house, on toys: Sena gear, new helmet, and (the big ticket item) a car. After reading all the positive comments, I think I might have been tempted.

Standard Motorcycle Listings

2013 Honda VFR1200F DCT $15,614

that's almost $2000 off of list. i think it's a pretty good deal if you are considering one. i found the 2012's and previous years, new for right around 10k. i feel like that is a really good discount. i just worry about support and service now that a few people have confirmed that 2013 may be the end of this model in the states. dunno.

[Beck]

There are lots of reasons why the 7th gen didn't fly in the sales charts as well as Honda might have expected, but one thing that keeps coming up with every generation of VFR that Honda came out with, maybe starting from the 5th gen was Honda was tone deaf to what their otherwise loyal VFR customers were really asking for to continue the evolution of the bike. The problem is, they keep taking these left turns on us almost as if they are trying to change the riders instead of listening to them.

These new bikes are excellent bikes, but not anywhere near what a majority of VFR riders were asking for many years for, so why are they surprised they don't sell so well,....because they have been losing that once loyal base they had when they keep blindsiding them with bikes that continually lose connection with their bikes that they thought were close to perfect when they got them as it pushed all the right buttons.

Honda just got so distracted with trying to build a competitor to BMW's bikes that I feel like they pretty much forgot about us, and why we bought out VFRs to start with....

Losing gear driven cams, 90 degree V-four architecture, chain drive can be like if Ducati suddenly dropped an I4 engine and yes, shaft drive in their bikes for the older VFR owners. Reminds me when Porsche started putting watercooled inline engines in the front (horrors!) their cars.....it took them literally, decades to build up a new base to sell their new cars. That amount of time applied to the VFR's evolution can just result with the VFR base just irreversibly dissipating away on Honda........which I think is happening with less and less sales every year now......

JMOs

[thx113]

Haven't ridden a VFR 1200 but agree the blackbird is a fantastic bike. I have owned two 2006 models from new and will never sell the current one. More than 400km on a tank, comfortable, good handling (especially with pilot power 2ct front and rear), and bullet proof.

They may not be particularly powerful or fast but everything else makes up for that.

The looks of the 1200 have grown on me but the small tank is a sticking point.

[BrianF]

Personally, I can't wait to see the 7th gen go away, if for no other reason than it means there could possibly be a replacement that I might want. However, based on the evolution, maybe they'll put out something like the Triumph Trophy haha. Honda certainly hit their target with the 1200, but missed our target.

No motorcycle can be all bikes to all people, but it at least needs to be the bike to enough people. I don't think the 7th gen is, and I wouldn't be surpised if the vultures are circling over the 2013. Maybe that's just wishful thinking.

[Volfy]

Honda does hit quite a few to the left field in the past few years. DN01 and NT700V come to mind. But then again, for years Honda had been criticized for being too conservative and for building designed-by-committee. But when they do make bold moves, they get panned.

Right now, Honda is focusing on low cost machines like the 500cc trio, which can be either entry-level for established markets like the US, or "big-bore" upgrades for the 3rd-world and emerging markets where most ride sub-250cc. That's where the real volume and growth are at. What we want here in the US don't really register on their radar as big as they used to. Besides, the US is just now barely recovering from the Great Recession and Europe is on the brink of their own economic meltdown. Demand have been abysmal and will likely stay low for quite some time to come.

As loyal as VFR owners have been, the last-gen has not exactly been a chart-buster either. If people were beating down dealer doors to buy them, Honda would never have killed the line. VFRs have not been mainstream for more than a decade, arguably never were since the 80's. It was, and remains, very much a niche bike.

VFR1200 was first and foremost a tour de force. It's a halo bike to showcase new technology like the DCT. Honda probably lost money on every one they sell. But they figure it's the way to build public acceptance for DCT and they'll make every cent of their investment back on the high-volume lost-MSRP units.

So... enjoy the VFR1200 if it tickles your fancy. Otherwise, find another bike. Life is too short to fixate on what-should-have-been's.

[Cam2]

It definitely tickles mine. I find that most who play the "what-should-have-been" game are the ones who haven't ridden one yet. My brother, a K1200S owner, was in the same crowd.....until he rode mine. I think a lot of folks would fall into this same category. All I know is it is the most fun bike I've owned of the many that have had a home in my garage at one time or another!

[Volfy]

No bike is perfect. Every bike I owned has areas where I would've liked to have seen done differently. Some turned out to be worse than others. The VFR1200 is no exception. If and when something else comes along and does the Viffer's job better, then it may be time for it to go, just like other bikes that rotate through my garage.

For now, I just so happen to be in the narrow demographic Honda designed the VFR1200 into. For me, the conventional ST's like the C14 I've had are a tad to focused on comfort and long-haul amenities. Even the sportiest 2013 FJR1300 is too touring-oriented for me. Hanging a knee out on those STs just feels weird. OTOH, the litre-sport bikes I've had are too punishing for anything longer than a few hours ride. Lightweight and nimble as they are, their powerband and handling are too race aggressive for even light touring duty. Bikes like Ninja 1000 comes close, so do the FZ1 and Sprint ST I had and the SV1000S I still have. But their packaging and lack of refinement don't measure up to Honda, and the chain drive gives them all a decidedly different character.

I cannot imagine Honda not being aware of this narrow demographic, which only leads to one conclusion - they never meant for the VFR1200 to be a high-volume seller. if any motor company can afford to post a halo bike that don't make money, it's Honda.