Member Contributer luvtoleanit Posted April 18, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 18, 2013 Honda does hit quite a few to the left field in the past few years. DN01 and NT700V come to mind. But then again, for years Honda had been criticized for being too conservative and for building designed-by-committee. But when they do make bold moves, they get panned. Right now, Honda is focusing on low cost machines like the 500cc trio, which can be either entry-level for established markets like the US, or "big-bore" upgrades for the 3rd-world and emerging markets where most ride sub-250cc. That's where the real volume and growth are at. What we want here in the US don't really register on their radar as big as they used to. Besides, the US is just now barely recovering from the Great Recession and Europe is on the brink of their own economic meltdown. Demand have been abysmal and will likely stay low for quite some time to come. As loyal as VFR owners have been, the last-gen has not exactly been a chart-buster either. If people were beating down dealer doors to buy them, Honda would never have killed the line. VFRs have not been mainstream for more than a decade, arguably never were since the 80's. It was, and remains, very much a niche bike. VFR1200 was first and foremost a tour de force. It's a halo bike to showcase new technology like the DCT. Honda probably lost money on every one they sell. But they figure it's the way to build public acceptance for DCT and they'll make every cent of their investment back on the high-volume lost-MSRP units. So... enjoy the VFR1200 if it tickles your fancy. Otherwise, find another bike. Life is too short to fixate on what-should-have-been's. They did a number of things wrong IMO. They priced it too high, that being #1. #2 is the weight. #3 is the range. But for people like me, remove #1 and I'll buy and deal with #2 and #3. Honda does what Honda wants to. They don't listen to their customers real well, not any more. The Acura line has been dismal in recent years and they've even fumbled on core sellers like the Civic. From what I heard last year, Mr. Honda's grandson or great-grandson, or whomever he is, got real pissed off at the Honda bean counters. Apparently he fired a bunch of them and is in the process of turning the company back over to the engineers. Of course Honda brass in Japan, well news out of that part of the company is tighter than a frog's arse. And my comments are nothing more than hearsay from a Torrance employee that I'm acquaintances with. The VFR, at 500 lbs wet and full of fuel, would sell awfully well. But it would cannibalize CBR sales because it would be a one bike does it all solution. They don't want that. They want you to have a CBR and a VFR. Or a VFR and a Wing, etc. How long has it been now that we've asked for a V4 1000cc supersport bike, affordable, a la RC51/SP1? Almost a decade and a half. They won't produce that because if they did, people would buy it and wouldn't be interested in that next gen CBR. For those of us who got deep discounts on this gen VFR it's a great bike for what we paid. I'm more than satisfied with it, even though I'm going to have a spend a few grand getting it to where I want. I still wish it was more sport than tour but it happens to be right in the middle IMO. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer dadofseven Posted April 21, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 21, 2013 All interesting comments. Buyers remorse, unrealized expectations, heavy, ugly, range, fugly, holy cow....it really does make me think I made a mistake......not. Seriously folks, what did you expect? A V-4 R1, a 500 Lb Interstate? It's a VFR, after the bike went from 750 to 800 cc it became a Sport Tourer, leaning toward Sport, not touring. I have run 700 mile days, track days, midnight mayhem, day rides, night rides, 2 up, solo, with nary a complaint. Sure it's a little porky, short on legs, but it truly does it all, and it seems to work well doing it. 157 HP at the rear, High 10s on the 1/4 mile, unbelievable sound with a slip on and I get questions everywhere I go. Great bike, not perfect, but great for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiac Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Not sure if this was said already or not, but at least one new model, the NC700X is available with a DCT, so it doesn't seem to me like they are abandoning that tech. I love my DCT most of the time, but I often ask myself if I would get it again if I could do it over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 i have looked at the 700 w/ the dct as well. all of the reviews were positive, except for the lack of power. that is originally what made me think of the 1200. i have been to a lot of track days and there were 600's that would just eat my lunch. i figured 700 would be a great size engine for a bike. i didn't realize that it wasn't quite the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted April 22, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 22, 2013 Imperfect shiFts.... Typo Dejavu. http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/74344-question-for-the-chain-gurus/page-2 I wish he would have made the same typo in the second sentence.."They allow me to appreciate the shit that is really good" would have been well received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volfy Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Since there seems to a fair amount of preference for a 500 lbs VFR1000, I thought I would share a bit of personal experience with a few bikes I've had recently, which are in somewhat similar veins: '07 Suzuki SV1000S - 450 lbs 996cc V-Twin. I've got helibars and normally ride it with a GIVI V46 top case. I could easily add panniers to make this into a lightweight sport tourer if I wanted... but I don't. The lightweight makes it agile around town and a bit easier at crawling speeds, but frankly crawling in traffic is no fun, regardless of how light and agile the bike is. At speed though, the lighter weight also makes the SV less stable and more prone to being knocked around by the wind and road imperfections. It is a great commuter and around-town bike, but for a long day ride through the back roads, or a weekend tour, I grab the VFR keys, without a doubt. As such, the SV Grande compliments the VFR1200 quite well. '09 Triumph Sprint ST - 530 lbs 1050cc Triple. The engine configuration not withstanding, this would have been the closest to what some folks here want out of a VFR800 replacement. Ergos and handling are very similar to the VFR1200, and the 1050cc triple pulls like a diesel but has good top end HP too. Very competent sport tourer but quite honestly felt heavier than the VFR1200 to me, probably because the Sprint has a taller seat and seems to carry its weight higher. Still, even if that's not an issue, I would still rather have the VFR1200's shaft drive and the larger engine - not necessarily for more HP (I never once felt I needed more out of the Sprint) but for a more relaxed highway cruise - and gladly take the weight penalty. I've had other litre bikes (FZ1, RSV1000R, ZX10R) that are lighter weight rockets. Some, like the FZ1, are similar to SV1000S in nature and can easily be converted to Sport Touring duty, but the lighter weight invariably carries some compromise. Others are pure sport bikes and would not make good sport tourers, unless you're 25yrs old that can take the punishment and pack light. There is no right or wrong, just different focus. As for lesser MSRP, of course we all want to get top notch hardware and pay little for it. But the quality and refinement of the VFR1200 is painfully obvious compared to other bikes I've had that carried a lower MSRP. This isn't just a Honda thing either. The Aprilia I had was practically a work of art and I would gladly pay premium for it. I'm just tickled pink that I am able to get the Viffer at such discounted price. I won't say it took me 9 bikes to realize there is NOT a bike that can do it all, as I knew it all along. To say otherwise, I will either have to limit the scope of what I want out of a motorcycle, or reduce my expectation out of each type of riding I do. VFR1200's problem is that Honda wrote a check for exactly that: a do-it-all. Not even the greatest motorcycle on earth can cash that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I love my 2010 VFR1200FD. Feels like I'm.riding what I paid for. No complaints. I actually didn't like the older VFR's (no offense to anyone) because of the plastics and front end. Shaft and single swing arm.makes this bike a perfect candidate for a cyberpunk street fighter in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted April 23, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 23, 2013 I love my 2010 VFR1200FD. Feels like I'm.riding what I paid for. No complaints. I actually didn't like the older VFR's (no offense to anyone) because of the plastics and front end. Shaft and single swing arm.makes this bike a perfect candidate for a cyberpunk street fighter in the future. and everyone knows the future will need all of the cyberpunk street fighters it can get it's monkey skinners on before the zombie apocolypse threatens us all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer EhViffer Posted April 23, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 23, 2013 I love my 2010 VFR1200FD. Feels like I'm.riding what I paid for. No complaints. I actually didn't like the older VFR's (no offense to anyone) because of the plastics and front end. Shaft and single swing arm.makes this bike a perfect candidate for a cyberpunk street fighter in the future. and everyone knows the future will need all of the cyberpunk street fighters it can get it's monkey skinners on before the zombie apocolypse threatens us all. Clearly you have an excellent understanding of what awaits us and the need to take evasive action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted April 23, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 23, 2013 ...With the VFR1200, Honda was instead gunning for BMW's K1200S/1300S. These are primarily designed for European taste. K1200S/1300S haven't exactly enjoyed widespread popularity here in the US, either. I can't quote any hard numbers, but judging by the traffic in UK's VFR1200 forums, compared to this one, I'd say riders on the other side of the pond like this sort of machines a lot more than US riders... I don't disagree with this statement but it does beg the questions "why call it a VFR?" Why not call it an ST1300 replacement? I get that VFR was long synonymous with quirky, slightly overweight technologically advanced bikes but never really direct competitors with the target bikes you now see it pitted against in magazine shoot outs or referenced above by you. Wouldn't it have been easier to give it an entirely different nomenclature and let the VFR guys continue to bitch about not receiving updates or perhaps badge it as an "Acura SportTour" - the quality of the finished product is simply amazing but by disenfranching those longtime supporters of the VFR marque Honda has dug another hole to climb out of as it relates to "square peg-round hole". And I am being serious when I suggest ST1300 replacement even though riding it with spirit will have you looking for a fuel option in about 150 miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted April 23, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 23, 2013 How about reviving the Sabre marquee... shaft drive, tranverse V4, standard ergos... seems to fit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volfy Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Sabre is more of a naked standard or power cruiser, not really a sport bike. Besides, the name is already re-cycled as the more mature sister to the Fury. VFR1200, being a transverse V4, isn't really an ST1300 replacement, either, even though I've heard plenty of ST owners wishing Honda would update the ST with the same engine, turned 90deg into a longitudinal V4, of course. To compete head-on with the other conventional ST's though, the tank will grow to 7gal and handlebars will be pulled back. Motorized windscreen, bigger/wider fairings, and big-ass saddlebags will pump the wet weight past 700lbs. Not a bad proposition, and one that arguably might sell way better than the VFR1200. As much as the prev-gen VFR owners might complain, the VFR1200 was actually rather appropriately named. Other than the shaft drive, it is very much inline with how the previous VFRs have evolved. It is certainly no worse than comparing the CBR1100XX to the CBR600RR, or ZX14R to ZX6R. The best I can think of is to give VFR1200 a more apt suffix than the non-descriptive "F". I think something like VFR1200XX or VFR1200ST might not have been a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted April 23, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 23, 2013 The problem is you're really starting to split hairs now categorizing things. You need a sport ST class, a tour ST class, a Sport Tour ST class, .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MattB Posted April 22, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted April 22, 2014 How long has it been now that we've asked for a V4 1000cc supersport bike, affordable, a la RC51/SP1? Almost a decade and a half. They won't produce that because if they did, people would buy it and wouldn't be interested in that next gen CBR. I can't say that this IS or ISN'T how/what Honda is thinking. What I CAN say is that it's flawed logic that assumes folks will not buy any other brand. I HAVE been one of the folks that's been waiting and waiting, but finally I'm turning my eyes, arms and wallet toward Aprilia and the RSV4 as I'm STILL not interested in a boring ass I4 CBR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer vfr350 Posted April 22, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted April 22, 2014 ...With the VFR1200, Honda was instead gunning for BMW's K1200S/1300S. These are primarily designed for European taste. K1200S/1300S haven't exactly enjoyed widespread popularity here in the US, either. I can't quote any hard numbers, but judging by the traffic in UK's VFR1200 forums, compared to this one, I'd say riders on the other side of the pond like this sort of machines a lot more than US riders... I don't disagree with this statement but it does beg the questions "why call it a VFR?" Why not call it an ST1300 replacement? I get that VFR was long synonymous with quirky, slightly overweight technologically advanced bikes but never really direct competitors with the target bikes you now see it pitted against in magazine shoot outs or referenced above by you. Wouldn't it have been easier to give it an entirely different nomenclature and let the VFR guys continue to bitch about not receiving updates or perhaps badge it as an "Acura SportTour" - the quality of the finished product is simply amazing but by disenfranching those longtime supporters of the VFR marque Honda has dug another hole to climb out of as it relates to "square peg-round hole". And I am being serious when I suggest ST1300 replacement even though riding it with spirit will have you looking for a fuel option in about 150 miles. As i was reading this thread I thought the same thing, what if it was not designated a VFR, maybe a new line , V something that points to the touring aspect, and how would opinions change? It's great seeing thoughts along the same line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 For as long as I can remember, we've been trying to get Honda to listen to us on what we REALLY want on the next VFRs,.... FORGET IT! THEY DON'T GIVE A RAT'S BUTT ON WHAT WE VFR OWNERS REALLY WANT! Honda just gives us what they want us to have, and that's it! Who do we think we are anyway, valued customers??! HAH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.