My Compu-Fire Regulator Died Today.

[coderighter]

Well had about 5k on it, no problems, never even got warm. Today it shorted, blew the 30 amp fuse, and I got that real bad burnt smell. Not sure what happen but two things of interest. The first was that it died shortly after a brisk acceleration, about 11k in 2nd. The second item was that I had replaced the 30 amp fuse with a 30 amp fusible link that has 2 female disconnects. One male disconnect on the wiring was brass factory, the other one I installed was not brass. When I removed the fusible link, the male disconnect I install had tarnished black really bad. It almost looks like there was some electro-chemicail reaction with the dis-similar metals. It could have been a loss of regulation because of the bad connection.

Now the question is should I buy another or go back to a shunt type, which also have a history of failure.

[mello dude]

Dont like that. Didnt you install one on a buddy's Blackbird?

Think something in the connections/wire shorted and backfired on the CF?

Dont have a lot of miles on mine. Wonder what Dave's (the EE) is doing?

[coderighter]

My friend's Blackbird is going strong so.... hopefully it was my tarnished connection. I did a little poking around tonight and I might try the Cycle Electrics unit. Not that I think there's some inherit problem with the Compu-Fire, I just like the idea that Cycle Electrics lists for 'any' 3 phase, where the Compu-Fire is only supported on Harley's.

[mello dude]

Refering to one of these?

http://www.roadstercycle.com/Roadstercycle%20Series%20Regulators.htm

http://www.cycleelectricinc.com/RECTIFIER.html

If your not doing anything with the old CF, could I have it? Gonna cut it open.

-- Jeez, digging around a bit, Cycleelectrics is in my neighborhood. Think I'll pay a visit.

[spud786]

Ive had stators fail on various bikes, but never a shunt RR, and thats hundreds of thousands of miles. If this was a 5th gen known RR issues, then you'd have no choice, but the 6th gen units I find totally reliable, atleast ive never had an issue with my 100,000 mile VFR. Being that the reg has already done over 100k, I doubt I can improve on it. Atleast the non shount type got some great advertising and speculation for a while.

[KevCarver]

Mine seems fine on the RC51. Hasn't got a lot of miles on it though. I had a dead stator when I installed it, and was hoping it would keep the replacement used stator working. For whatever reason, that second stator is now dead. It was a used unit when I bought it. Going with a re-wound stator this time. Same CompuFire R/R.

I didn't use the connector that came with it. I went with the suggested heavier duty plug in one of the threads. I forget who posted it, may have been you code? Anyway, that plug looks like the day I put it in. Clean and dry terminals, no problems with any of the wiring. I have the DC wired straight to the battery on the + side through a 30a fuse, and the - is grounded to the engine.

[coderighter]

Ive had stators fail on various bikes, but never a shunt RR, and thats hundreds of thousands of miles. If this was a 5th gen known RR issues, then you'd have no choice, but the 6th gen units I find totally reliable, atleast ive never had an issue with my 100,000 mile VFR. Being that the reg has already done over 100k, I doubt I can improve on it. Atleast the non shount type got some great advertising and speculation for a while.

My opposition to shunt regulator is based principle, which may be my downfall. A shunt regulator works the charging system at 100% capacity, 100% of the time robbing power, making heat, and taking life out of the stator.

Think of it as cruise control that works by keeping the engine full throttle and 'trying' to regulate the speed by applying the brakes!

It would seem that in this day and age, something less primitive should be possible. It would seem stators would last forever if they only worked half as hard. And think of it, if you were flowing half the current (take away the waste to ground), all of those overheating connection problems should go away.

But again, this may be my downfall.

Mine seems fine on the RC51. Hasn't got a lot of miles on it though. I had a dead stator when I installed it, and was hoping it would keep the replacement used stator working. For whatever reason, that second stator is now dead. It was a used unit when I bought it. Going with a re-wound stator this time. Same CompuFire R/R.

I didn't use the connector that came with it. I went with the suggested heavier duty plug in one of the threads. I forget who posted it, may have been you code? Anyway, that plug looks like the day I put it in. Clean and dry terminals, no problems with any of the wiring. I have the DC wired straight to the battery on the + side through a 30a fuse, and the - is grounded to the engine.

Just to be clear, it wasn't the R/R connector that was the problem, it was the fuse link I installed. This one-

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/uploads/gallery/album_4691/gallery_15527_4691_127955.jpg

It was weird, it looked as if the tap had been colored with a black Sharpie.

Refering to one of these?

http://www.roadstercycle.com/Roadstercycle%20Series%20Regulators.htm

http://www.cycleelectricinc.com/RECTIFIER.html

If your not doing anything with the old CF, could I have it? Gonna cut it open.

-- Jeez, digging around a bit, Cycleelectrics is in my neighborhood. Think I'll pay a visit.

That's the one.

I don't have it off yet (the bike is still in the back of my truck), but I'm pretty sure it's potted, still want it?

[2thdr]

Thanks for posting this...I was just contemplating installing one of those fuse taps...now I don't think I will!

[mello dude]

Yea - I'll still take it. Check PM.

So, postmortem we dunno if the wiring/fusebox caused a short and then ate the R/R or the R/R ate it and took down the the wiring/fusebox. Hmmm. Mine is kinda wired on the overkill side, we'll see how it goes. Gotta get some miles on the thing.

[spud786]

Im not completing sure how the later model vfr charging system works, as it has a monitoring wire. What is this monitoring wire for, and what does it do? Many bypass this function and direct wire, that would seem to make it totally 100% max current flow.

I know the RR on my 6thgen is never hot, always luke warm to the nakid hand when Ive touched it , even after couple hundred miles in the heat.

But I know what you mean, used to be car alternators where only good for 50,000 miles, nowadays many go well over 100,000 miles or never fail. The average stator life of a motorcycle is less than 50,000 miles, above 50,000 is considered above average. The vfr staor fits in that above average range with Harley. My first one lasted 56,000 miles, I have alittle less than 50,000 mile on the second one, but its still going. I do run an rd, which might aide not having to shunt as much, but I also run the st1300 agm. I didnt start running the rd till after that first 42,000 miles, so my stator may have been already half cooked by that time.

As far as the vfr smart charging system, I know mine regulates between 14.6 and 15v. Usually after I start it up it shows 15 volt, as it should to replentish the loss from turning the motor over, but it quickly settles around 14.8v.

Im totally stock on wiring, other than a power port directly off the battery.

[coderighter]

For me, the purpose of changing the R/R was about making the rest of the electrial bullet proof and reducing overall operating temps.

The VFR system is rated at 480 watts, that means each stator leg has approx 13-14 amps present. That's the amount of current going from the stator to the R/R on each wire. Under normal circumstances, you'll normally need about 300 watts. At 300 watts, the current on each leg should be 8-9 amps but because of shunt regulator, the current from the remains 13-14 amps because the remaining 180 watts are shorted to ground to control the voltage output.

With the series type regulator, I measured the amperage and I had just over 6 amps per leg with LED and HID lights. That means the stator is 'working' half as much and should have no problem lasting the life of the bike. Also, because the power is cut in half, there should be no melted connector problems.

The sense wire has nothing to do with the total power consumed, it's just a voltage reference.

The funny thing about a shunt regulator is the more power used by the bike, the cooler the R/R runs. It's the power shunted to ground that heats it up. If you disconnect both headlights, the R/R will get real hot, real fast.

[spud786]

Yeah I can see if I disconnect the headlights and Rd, I'd see more heat dissapated at the RR, as it stands I havent seen any burnt connections nor overheating of the connections, and RR is not running hot. I also have a heated vest I use at times, but RD as standard.

Couple years back , I noticed my voltage was stuck at 14.2volt while riding, which was very unusual for my bike, it never moved. 14.2 was still in spec so I wrote it off, within two weeks the stator shorted totally (dead as a door nail).

Im expecting to see that again, and hopefully catch it before I end up dead on the road, I had plenty of notice something wasnt right with my normal output, I just didnt take it seriously.

[Tightwad]

I was wondering how long it would be until one of these units failed. I really don't think they are specced to switch the current the VFR can produce. At high RPM there is a lot of power being generated that a 3 phase Harley motor will never see.

[mello dude]

I'm open minded about it, but we still cant say what the "why" part of it is. On the one side, the r/r was the cause of the failure, and on the other side, the wiring shorted and took out the R/R. If this is the case, a shunt r/r just as easily could have ate it too.

-just a scrap of info, DaveB's CF has 15K on his. -- Interesting stuff.

[NakedViffer]

Too much power is not what melts connectors, its crappy connections that cause resistance and then heat up and melt things. Thats why soldering everything you can is usually the best option. You ought to think about the factory MOSFET R/R's I've done a lot of research on them as of late, and its a very big thing over on the superhawk forums. The one in particular that I am using(05 R1) is very stout and its almost unheard of for them to go bad.

[kaldek]

Well had about 5k on it, no problems, never even got warm. Today it shorted, blew the 30 amp fuse, and I got that real bad burnt smell. Not sure what happen but two things of interest. The first was that it died shortly after a brisk acceleration, about 11k in 2nd. The second item was that I had replaced the 30 amp fuse with a 30 amp fusible link that has 2 female disconnects. One male disconnect on the wiring was brass factory, the other one I installed was not brass. When I removed the fusible link, the male disconnect I install had tarnished black really bad. It almost looks like there was some electro-chemicail reaction with the dis-similar metals. It could have been a loss of regulation because of the bad connection.

Now the question is should I buy another or go back to a shunt type, which also have a history of failure.

As a man who owns a bike with an alternator now....... I shall say nothing!!!!

If you disconnect both headlights, the R/R will get real hot, real fast.

Amen to that! One of the worst things I ever did on my VFR was work on the bike with the engine idling at the headlights disconnected. The regulator got so hot I couldn't touch it.

[coderighter]

Too much power is not what melts connectors, its crappy connections that cause resistance and then heat up and melt things. Thats why soldering everything you can is usually the best option. You ought to think about the factory MOSFET R/R's I've done a lot of research on them as of late, and its a very big thing over on the superhawk forums. The one in particular that I am using(05 R1) is very stout and its almost unheard of for them to go bad.

I'm with you on the connectors. Not so much that they can't carry the current, it's that they're not weather proof. Over time they corrode, which lessens the amount of current they can carry before causing heat.

Ok, that being said, the connection between each of the 3 stator legs and the regulator with a shunt regulator is 12-13 amps. With the Compu Fire (series) regulator the current, as measured on my VFR, is less than 6 amps. By running half the current (and power), it will be almost impossible for the connector to overheat. Also, the shunt regulator runs a lot of current through the ground connection, another sore spot. By using the series regulator, the current through the ground connection is cut in half also.

The purpose is to lessen the current through the stator, in my case by half. Changing the R/R to the most efficient mosfet shunt type, will only work the stator harder. There's a lot of posts here of people that changed to bigger, badder R/R only to have the stator fail.

[Bassie]

Amps are only delivered when you have enough devices that ask them.

See it like a waterpipe.

The pressure is the voltage and the amps is the ammount of water flowing trough the pipe.

The ammount flowing is just that as there are taps (devices) using water.

So if you close a tap (headlights off) the current also drops.

Maybe it maked more sence now?

Sent from my GT-S5570 using Tapatalk

[spud786]

Is the Series reg capable of pulling 12 mor 13 amps, or limited to 6?

I mentioned previously my reg runs luke warm to the hand, IMO, that means I really dont have an overabundance being shunted to ground. But I also have plenty of juice to run all my appliances without worrying about a low chanrge rate.

I guess Im wondering if the series can actually keep up in comparison(if needed) as over abundance of shunted power is not really a concern in my case.

[coderighter]

Amps are only delivered when you have enough devices that ask them. See it like a waterpipe. The pressure is the voltage and the amps is the ammount of water flowing trough the pipe. The ammount flowing is just that as there are taps (devices) using water. So if you close a tap (headlights off) the current also drops. Maybe it maked more sence now? Sent from my GT-S5570 using Tapatalk

The shunt regulator is more like this.

The stator is the water pump, it flows 480 gallons per minute (watts).

We're trying to maintain 14.5 PSI (volts).

To maintian 14.5 PSI, instead of controlling the pump in some fashion, the R/R opens a dump valve (to GND) to bleed off water and lower the pressure. The pump is still pushing 480 GPM.

Of coarse, the pipes (wires) between the pump and the bleed off valve are at a PSI higher than than the rest of the system.

The water returning to the reserve tank (GND current) is the same gallons per minute.

If we could control the vanes of the water pump, the pressure could be regulated by changing the GPM, instead of dumping unused water. If the pump only has to pump 240 GPM to maintain 14.5 PSI, wear and tear on the pump is roughly cut in half. This is the intent of the 'series regulator'.

[coderighter]

Is the Series reg capable of pulling 12 mor 13 amps, or limited to 6?

I mentioned previously my reg runs luke warm to the hand, IMO, that means I really dont have an overabundance being shunted to ground. But I also have plenty of juice to run all my appliances without worrying about a low chanrge rate.

I guess Im wondering if the series can actually keep up in comparison(if needed) as over abundance of shunted power is not really a concern in my case.

Yes, as the load goes up, the stator current goes up. It's more of a as needed system.

[coderighter]

I was wondering how long it would be until one of these units failed. I really don't think they are specced to switch the current the VFR can produce. At high RPM there is a lot of power being generated that a 3 phase Harley motor will never see.

I think you're on to something, sort of. The Compu-Fire is rated at 40 amps, so that should be ok, especially since I run LED's and 35 watt HID's. I think it's more likely the high voltage at high RPM might be above the rating of some in the guts of the regulator. My theory is (was) if the output of the Harley stator at idle, 650 RPM, is the same as the VFR at idle, 1100 RPM, then at max RPM they should be close to the same. If it was 600 RPM and 1200 RPM, it would be the same at 6000 RPM and 12000 RPM. The actual math of the 650 to 1100 comparison would work out to the output being the same at 6000 RPM and 10150 RPM. You would think there would be enough of a fudge factor to get to 12k, but perhaps not.

I mentioned before that I had a corroded connector that may have led to an open circuit and loss of regulation. Well when I went to replace the R/R, I had forgotten that I had a seperate fused circuit for the HID's right off the R/R. That fuse was fine so even if the main load circuit had opened because of the corroded connection, the lights should have been enough load to maintain regulation.

I believe at this point, it was high voltage (high engine speed) that killed the R/R.

My new Cycle Electrics at 50 amps, is spec'd for all 3 phase, and has a 2 year warranty. We'll see how this goes

[Guest]

Is the new Cycle Electrics rated for a higher input voltage? IE > was it 50volts AC? I have a CF hardwired to the stator and the battery ( through the 30 amp fuse ) so far no problems , but I don't do WFO very often.

JL

[coderighter]

Is the new Cycle Electrics rated for a higher input voltage? IE > was it 50volts AC? I have a CF hardwired to the stator and the battery ( through the 30 amp fuse ) so far no problems , but I don't do WFO very often.

JL

They don't say. That makes me the guinea pig.

[ermisVFR]

My Compufire also died two weeks ago after an acceleration near the redline. Lasted 7.5Kmiles. I'm using the OEM now but also considering the solution of the CE605 SB.