JES_VFR Posted August 3, 2011 Posted August 3, 2011 No because I believe the gsxr uses the same gapping. I'll double check once I get back into town. Never mind what the GSXR uses for a plug gap!! IF you test one of these COP's connected to the VFR, what does the spark look like?? Is it bright blue white with a vicious snap? Quote
Member Contributer kaldek Posted August 3, 2011 Member Contributer Posted August 3, 2011 Never mind what the GSXR uses for a plug gap!! IF you test one of these COP's connected to the VFR, what does the spark look like?? Is it bright blue white with a vicious snap? Hang on. What you're saying means that you know that over-charging the primary coil results in a higher voltage in the secondary winding. Which also means that we're assuming that over-charging the coil is cool. Shouldn't we focus on confirming that's fine first, and then worry about the spark gap adjustment to compensate for the higher voltage? Quote
JES_VFR Posted August 5, 2011 Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) Never mind what the GSXR uses for a plug gap!! IF you test one of these COP's connected to the VFR, what does the spark look like?? Is it bright blue white with a vicious snap? Hang on. What you're saying means that you know that over-charging the primary coil results in a higher voltage in the secondary winding. Which also means that we're assuming that over-charging the coil is cool. Shouldn't we focus on confirming that's fine first, and then worry about the spark gap adjustment to compensate for the higher voltage? I wasn't suggesting overcharging the primary. I thought that Scott had already checked the peak primary voltage and current. Yes lets make sure that the primary is operating at the correct current. Then look at the spark gap to peak the secondary windings output. If I've jumped ahead, sorry my bad... My point was that Scott has changed the coil, so he has to look at what he has on the VFR, not what the coil is supposed to work with on the GSXR. Edited August 5, 2011 by JES_VFR Quote
Member Contributer kaldek Posted August 5, 2011 Member Contributer Posted August 5, 2011 I thought that Scott had already checked the peak primary voltage and current. Not yet - me and Kostritzer were giving suggestions on how to go about it locally. I mean, heck I've got an oscilloscope and low amp current probe but I'm a bit far away. :) Quote
JES_VFR Posted August 5, 2011 Posted August 5, 2011 I thought that Scott had already checked the peak primary voltage and current. Not yet - me and Kostritzer were giving suggestions on how to go about it locally. I mean, heck I've got an oscilloscope and low amp current probe but I'm a bit far away. :) Oh yeah, you mentioned a small inexpensive oscilloscope didn't you. Can you shoot me a PM with the brand and if possible a link of a vendor to purchase it from? The shop ones I keep seeing are way beyond the tool budget for now. Quote
Member Contributer kaldek Posted August 5, 2011 Member Contributer Posted August 5, 2011 I thought that Scott had already checked the peak primary voltage and current. Not yet - me and Kostritzer were giving suggestions on how to go about it locally. I mean, heck I've got an oscilloscope and low amp current probe but I'm a bit far away. :) Oh yeah, you mentioned a small inexpensive oscilloscope didn't you. Can you shoot me a PM with the brand and if possible a link of a vendor to purchase it from? The shop ones I keep seeing are way beyond the tool budget for now. DSO Nano on eBay. Most of these are clone hardware - no big deal - but there is also a newer Nano V2 and also a DSO Quad which has four channels! All of them are limited to about 1-2mhz, mine realistically tops out at about 150khz before it starts to alias badly. Plenty good enough for auto electrical work though. Quote
Member Contributer Ranger77 Posted August 5, 2011 Author Member Contributer Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) Hey guys. Sorry no updates. Im about to pass out from work and the heat. I wejt out of town last weekend to see family. We went pawn shopping and wouldnt you know. One place had a snap-on osci scope. Looked like a 60's tv on a roller stand. LOL. They wanted $600 for it. I think itll play pong. Edited August 5, 2011 by Ranger77 Quote
Member Contributer Ranger77 Posted August 5, 2011 Author Member Contributer Posted August 5, 2011 I thought that Scott had already checked the peak primary voltage and current. Not yet - me and Kostritzer were giving suggestions on how to go about it locally. I mean, heck I've got an oscilloscope and low amp current probe but I'm a bit far away. :) Oh yeah, you mentioned a small inexpensive oscilloscope didn't you. Can you shoot me a PM with the brand and if possible a link of a vendor to purchase it from? The shop ones I keep seeing are way beyond the tool budget for now. DSO Nano on eBay. Most of these are clone hardware - no big deal - but there is also a newer Nano V2 and also a DSO Quad which has four channels! All of them are limited to about 1-2mhz, mine realistically tops out at about 150khz before it starts to alias badly. Plenty good enough for auto electrical work though. I saw those. It looks like they got cbeapy mp3 players and hot wired them and reprogrammed them. LOL Im thinking about getting the cool quad one. Just need you to sell this to me because I dont know what else I would use it for. Quote
Member Contributer kaldek Posted August 6, 2011 Member Contributer Posted August 6, 2011 Im thinking about getting the cool quad one. Just need you to sell this to me because I dont know what else I would use it for. That's why you buy the cheap single channel one. If you;'re not going to use it again don't spend more than $60. Quote
Member Contributer Jakobi Posted August 25, 2011 Member Contributer Posted August 25, 2011 So has there been a consensus as to whether or not CBR1000 coils are essentially plug and play? -Jake Quote
Veefer800Canuck Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 Waiting with baited breath to see if RangerScott has finally determined if the stick coils will play nicely with the 5th gen ECU........ Quote
WackenSS Posted August 30, 2011 Posted August 30, 2011 I am always hungry for new education, and rarely say no to a mod with something to show for... I feel pretty educated by this thread, but i just dont see why i should even consider doing this to my train-wrecked vfr still lying dormant in the barn, or the super-charged one standing on its own two wheels? Is this what we call a healty persuit of undiscovered HP, or just the first signs of un- treatable boredom? Please educate me further :) Quote
Member Contributer kaldek Posted August 30, 2011 Member Contributer Posted August 30, 2011 Is this what we call a healty persuit of undiscovered HP, or just the first signs of un- treatable boredom? Please educate me further :) Hey man, everybody loves farkles. In ranger's case (and mine) though, I think we're at serious risk of contracting O.F. OVER FARKLING. Quote
Member Contributer Ranger77 Posted August 31, 2011 Author Member Contributer Posted August 31, 2011 I made a purchase on ebay for an item and they are gonna cancel the order. I should be getting a $50 coupon. So....if I do I might order the oriscope thingy. I still need to replace my vehicles clutch so we'll see. Quote
douglasthecook Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 What are the differences between the RC-51 stock coils and the VFR coils? Both utilize the same cannister type coil set-up, although I'm not sure what the voltage difference would be. If anything, I think that the RC would require a hotter spark because of the bigger piston/gas volume/displacement, but again, I'm not 100% sure of any of this, it's merely speculation on my part... Quote
Member Contributer Ranger77 Posted January 23, 2012 Author Member Contributer Posted January 23, 2012 What are the differences between the RC-51 stock coils and the VFR coils? Both utilize the same cannister type coil set-up, although I'm not sure what the voltage difference would be. If anything, I think that the RC would require a hotter spark because of the bigger piston/gas volume/displacement, but again, I'm not 100% sure of any of this, it's merely speculation on my part... I was thinking the same thing. "Might" be a hotter spark. I know there are dirtbike guys that'll run a coil off a different bike to get a hotter spark. The only way to know for sure is to get both and put your tongue on them and see which one knocks you out longer. 1 Quote
spud786 Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 Does the 5th gen run Irids, I thought Irids were spec'd in applications that use less voltage to fire the plug? maybe that has an effect with resistances used in the coils? Quote
Member Contributer BCmcrider Posted January 23, 2012 Member Contributer Posted January 23, 2012 The only way to know for sure is to get both and put your tongue on them and see which one knocks you out longer. Well, it works with 9V batteries. Quote
Veefer800Canuck Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 I would also like to do this mod if there is some more info regarding the resistance of the coils Vs the stockers, and how that may or may not affect the ECU. Sure don`t want to fry the ECU some number of miles down the road. Quote
Member Contributer kostritzer Posted February 29, 2012 Member Contributer Posted February 29, 2012 ^ Well on a 750 you can lift one cam on each bank, rotate it laterally and reinstall it. That way each bank fires at the same time so you could in effect have both cylinders in each bank at TDC simultaneously. The bike will run just fine like this, it's been done before. I don't see how this would work on any of the 180 degree motors as one piston will always be at BDC when the other is at TDC per bank. I could see how it would work on a 360 degree motor though. When you 'twin-twingle' the V4, your pairing changes from across the bank to across the V... so you do in fact get both paired pistons at TDC at the same time. Whether this is relevant to the discussion I'm not sure - I am only about 80% up on the content here so far, but will learn more because I want to run a coil on plug set-up too :) You really can't have two pistons at TDC at same time with a 90º V4 with a 180º crank no matter how you you turn the cams. The piston position depends solely on the crank and the v-angle. So I can't see how that would work without changing the crank to a 360º or 90º one (which doesn't exist to my knowledge). You're right, the piston diagonal to the one at TDC would be about midway through its stroke, so no paired cylinders. It would have to have split crank journals allowing it to fire every 90 degrees, or it would have to be a boxer engine. Quote
Veefer800Canuck Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 So how does all this help us 5th genners who want to do the COP mod, but are unsure whether or not our bikes will explode and catch fire, and melt, then die some more? Quote
Member Contributer kaldek Posted March 2, 2012 Member Contributer Posted March 2, 2012 So how does all this help us 5th genners who want to do the COP mod, but are unsure whether or not our bikes will explode and catch fire, and melt, then die some more? Well it tells you that the bike is most likely TCI and that by merely looking at your wiring diagram you can confirm it. That means that the use of four Coil-On-Plug items of the same resistance as the existing coils will work fine, and a coil of any resistance should work fine if the EFI uses closed loop dwell control (which we haven't confirmed). Quote
Veefer800Canuck Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 So how does all this help us 5th genners who want to do the COP mod, but are unsure whether or not our bikes will explode and catch fire, and melt, then die some more? Well it tells you that the bike is most likely TCI and that by merely looking at your wiring diagram you can confirm it. That means that the use of four Coil-On-Plug items of the same resistance as the existing coils will work fine, and a coil of any resistance should work fine if the EFI uses closed loop dwell control (which we haven't confirmed). Exactly. The coils are NOT the same resistance. And I don't wanna toast my ECU. If I already had a spare ECU I'd go for it. Quote
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