zRoYz Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 I would also be changing the complete throttle body setup to try it's only disconnect 4 plugs, throttle cables (you don't need to reconnect them to test, just use your hand) & 4 clamps on the lower boots. I know you installed 06 injectors on your 02 but looking at your video the throttle bodies installed are extremely dirty. It would just be nice for you to know if there is a problem with your 02 motor which I personally don't think there is. The only real mechanical fault would be valve clearances way out which doesn't really happen on a VFR or you cam chains have stretched so much it's effecting the timing or the valves aren't seating well due to carbon build up. But you would think those sort of faults will effect things across the rev range, not just at idle which makes me believe it is something to do with the EFI system but not the ECU. I would also say maybe bad fuel but you said it has been happening for a while so would be more than one tank of fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanadianKen Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Kaldek - I have to ask you this - the high idle at start up - could that be the wax unit acting up? From what I know of the wax unit - it can get clogged and restrict coolant from flowing through it which causes it to high idle. Might be coincidental - but maybe that the cause for your high idle start. Don't know if that would then cause bad data to be read into the ECU and then mess up the ignition? (pinging that you mentioned). Member DUDE and I swapped his wax unit out of his 5th gen - and then learned that the unit could be flushed out - versus replaced. YOu've gone this far - might that be worth checking out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted August 20, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 20, 2011 Kaldek - I have to ask you this - the high idle at start up - could that be the wax unit acting up? From what I know of the wax unit - it can get clogged and restrict coolant from flowing through it which causes it to high idle. Might be coincidental - but maybe that the cause for your high idle start. Don't know if that would then cause bad data to be read into the ECU and then mess up the ignition? (pinging that you mentioned). Member DUDE and I swapped his wax unit out of his 5th gen - and then learned that the unit could be flushed out - versus replaced. YOu've gone this far - might that be worth checking out? Yeah already checked that. It was the first thing I thought of, but it wasn't extended. Basically with the 02 ECU it starts OK but exhibits the same issue it aways had, but on the 06 ECU (Aussie or american) it idles at very high speed when warming up and has fluctuating rpms at any given throttle position. Anyone know if it's critical to remove the throttle bodies for the motor swap? The best I can tell is that it's removed so you can get to the coolant hoses connecting to the thermostat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogman Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Man what an epic. Kal, mate, you have about 10,000x the patience I have. Good luck. (I would have just bought a new one) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zRoYz Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 The manual say's remove throttle bodies, but because your going to remove main frame spar by lifting upwards there would be no need all you need to make sure of is there are no hoses or wiring that passes through any part of frame your lifting away that will stop that procedure. If radiator hose that go to wax unit do then removing ends at radiator would be enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted August 21, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 21, 2011 When removing your motor, do NOT remove your centrestand from the stand bracked unless you REALLY need to. Those fecking bolts are thread-locked in there TIGHT and I snapped the head off one from the new bike. I don't think this bitch is even Ezy-out capable! Luckily all these parts are interchangeable so I can keep the stand bracket from the old bike and NOT remove the centrestand from it. Geeez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zRoYz Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 When removing your motor, do NOT remove your centrestand from the stand bracked unless you REALLY need to. Those fecking bolts are thread-locked in there TIGHT and I snapped the head off one from the new bike. I don't think this bitch is even Ezy-out capable! Luckily all these parts are interchangeable so I can keep the stand bracket from the old bike and NOT remove the centrestand from it. Geeez. lol I found out the same thing when removing my center stand to powder coat & also snapped a bolt, the problem is it was so tight ezy outs didn't work so had to end up drilling the bolt out. The problem with that is the metal bolt when snapped it's almost imposable to drill out exactly centered so you end up taking some alloy as well. Helli coils not real good due to the strength you need with a deep thread & my problem was going up to even a 12mm bolt I wasn't happy with thread so went to 1/2 inch UNF for just that bit extra. Lucky the center stand bush can be drilled out to 13mm without problem. Note: you can also be caught out if you don't relies the RHS bolt is a left hand thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted August 21, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 21, 2011 Note: you can also be caught out if you don't relies the RHS bolt is a left hand thread. Oops. You mean it's lefty tighty righty loosy, even when viewed from that side??? Wow, the Honda manual doesn't even list the centrestand as a serviceable part! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted August 21, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 21, 2011 Oops. You mean it's lefty tighty righty loosy, even when viewed from that side??? Ahhh FUGGIT, I just checked the bolt head and sure enough it's a left hand thread. WHY, MR. HONDA? WHYYYYYY!!! They must be DAMNED paranoid about that centrestand falling off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Well there's your problem right there!! I think it's because you're down under. The water swirls the other way down the toIlet, and the bolts are all left hand thread!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zRoYz Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 It is listed in the manual as left hand thread & parts fish but only the RHS bolt so to undo the RHS center stand bolt you need to turn it clockwise (normal bolt you turn clockwise to tighten. So I'm guessing you snapped the RHS bolt because you turned it counter clockwise which is tightening it doh. They are thread locked in & very tight anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted August 21, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 21, 2011 It is listed in the manual as left hand thread & parts fiche Eh? All I got in the parts fiche was "BOLT, FLANGE (10X35)". The Haynes manual didn't mention it as being left-hand thread and I couldn't find a page in the manual that even referred to the centrestand! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zRoYz Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I use this web site to look up parts & also buy from them as there prices for oem parts are very good, look at this page part number 13 http://www.powersportsplus.com/parts/search/Honda/Motorcycle/2004/VFR800+AC/STAND/parts.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted August 22, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 22, 2011 I use this web site to look up parts & also buy from them as there prices for oem parts are very good, look at this page part number 13 http://www.powersportsplus.com/parts/search/Honda/Motorcycle/2004/VFR800+AC/STAND/parts.html Ahhhh, somebody has added to that after the fact! I have an offline copy (PDF) of the fiche created by one of our members and it doesn't have it listed as left hand thread. Not that I would have looked at the fiche first, mind. Maybe I should start doing that eh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted August 22, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted August 22, 2011 Dude your funny - every mod turns into a reality show saga.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted August 22, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 22, 2011 Dude your funny - every mod turns into a reality show saga.... Keep watching! I've got the new bike set up on chasiss stands and have only one bolt left before I drop the motor out of it. It's game time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zRoYz Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I use this web site to look up parts & also buy from them as there prices for oem parts are very good, look at this page part number 13 http://www.powersportsplus.com/parts/search/Honda/Motorcycle/2004/VFR800+AC/STAND/parts.html Ahhhh, somebody has added to that after the fact! I have an offline copy (PDF) of the fiche created by one of our members and it doesn't have it listed as left hand thread. Not that I would have looked at the fiche first, mind. Maybe I should start doing that eh. I find it helps allot compared to just using the service manual Don't stress to much it is the same bolt that I snapped & I new it was left hand thread, the thread lock Honda used & years of alloy to steel corrosion they don't like coming out as the alloy being cast isn't that strong, you tend to get the same problem with engine mount bolts but as there larger stronger bolts the alloy thread strips. You can try a ezy out but didn't work for me & why bolt snapped was like bolt welded in so had to drill out bolt so start with small size pilot drill & slowly work up sizes. The main problem is you can't be sure to hit dead center of bolt so you will probably lose some alloy which opens up the hole even larger than a stripped 10mm bolt (reason to slowly go up drill sizes while removing bolt). I didn't bother with making replacement bolt left hand thread (you can buy left hand thread tap if you want) but going up to the next size 12mm (use 12mm 1.5mm pitch for better strength but costs more) I wasn't happy with as my bore was a little egg shaped due to slightly off center drilling so I went to 1/2 inch UNF for a little extra meat in the thread, that is about limit going up sizes due to needing to drill out pivot bush that goes through center stand that uses thrust washers, which I drilled out to 13mm. 13mm bolt isn't a standard size & 14mm is to large so if you can get away with 12mm if your drilling is the best option. Due to larger bolt with fine thread i just used thread lock again which is why I didn't bother with left hand thread replacement, I also didn't use helli coil because of the 12mm problem I had & the helli coil is a limited length & you use about 30mm of thread length within alloy. If you want 1/2 inch UNF tape as already have one which cost about $25 & 1/2 inch UNF bolt warehouse is 5mins from my home as I will probably never use the UNF tap again so your welcome to it for price of postage & cost of bolt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted August 22, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted August 22, 2011 Dude your funny - every mod turns into a reality show saga.... Keep watching! I've got the new bike set up on chasiss stands and have only one bolt left before I drop the motor out of it. It's game time. Pics! Pics! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted August 22, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 22, 2011 Alright, alright. New '06 stripped-right New '06 stripped-left Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted August 22, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 22, 2011 Righto, seems Murphy is kicking my ass. I got the motor out of the new bike no problemo - we just lifted the bike off the stands, lowered it to the ground and loosened the mounting bolts before lifting the frame and fork assembly off it. However, whilst attempting to remove the swingarm from my '02 it seems my swingarm pivot bolt has rusted itself to the spacers. The pivot bolt and spacers spin nicely in the bearings, but I have bashed the F*CK out of the bolt to get it out and it is NOT moving. The pivot bolt nut came off nicely, and the pinch bolts are of course removed. I would just give up on it and use all the stuff from the new bike, but I currently HAVE to get the swingarm out because I need the freakin' swingarm bracket. Why? Because the other one from the new bike has the sheared-off centrestand bolt stuck in it! RAGH! Anyone got any advice for getting this little shit out? Right now it's practically soaking in WD-40 to see if I can get it to free itself overnight. Anyway I've given up for the evening as I have an early start tomorrow at - of all places - Honda motorcycles head office Australia. Is there some irony in there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted August 22, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted August 22, 2011 Righto, seems Murphy is kicking my ass. I got the motor out of the new bike no problemo - we just lifted the bike off the stands, lowered it to the ground and loosened the mounting bolts before lifting the frame and fork assembly off it. However, whilst attempting to remove the swingarm from my '02 it seems my swingarm pivot bolt has rusted itself to the spacers. The pivot bolt and spacers spin nicely in the bearings, but I have bashed the F*CK out of the bolt to get it out and it is NOT moving. The pivot bolt nut came off nicely, and the pinch bolts are of course removed. I would just give up on it and use all the stuff from the new bike, but I currently HAVE to get the swingarm out because I need the freakin' swingarm bracket. Why? Because the other one from the new bike has the sheared-off centrestand bolt stuck in it! RAGH! Anyone got any advice for getting this little shit out? Right now it's practically soaking in WD-40 to see if I can get it to free itself overnight. Anyway I've given up for the evening as I have an early start tomorrow at - of all places Honda motorcycles head office Australia. Is there some irony in there? - Ideas --- - Dunno if I can help direct, but if I get into a spot like that, I usually go look at an exploded view of the assembly to make sure some stupid engineer didnt put a circlip in a spot you least expect. - There are some more aggresive penetrants on the market vs WD40 --- Kroil (super stuff) -- comes to mind, try that way. - Chain saws, hand granades - sry couldnt resist. Good luck on this one ----------------------------------------------------------- "Anyway I've given up for the evening as I have an early start tomorrow at - of all places Honda motorcycles head office Austria. Is there some irony in there?" (kaldek) Um, I'm trying not to laugh ---- (Maybe Soichiro is watching.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted August 23, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted August 23, 2011 Righto, seems Murphy is kicking my ass. I got the motor out of the new bike no problemo - we just lifted the bike off the stands, lowered it to the ground and loosened the mounting bolts before lifting the frame and fork assembly off it. However, whilst attempting to remove the swingarm from my '02 it seems my swingarm pivot bolt has rusted itself to the spacers. The pivot bolt and spacers spin nicely in the bearings, but I have bashed the F*CK out of the bolt to get it out and it is NOT moving. The pivot bolt nut came off nicely, and the pinch bolts are of course removed. I would just give up on it and use all the stuff from the new bike, but I currently HAVE to get the swingarm out because I need the freakin' swingarm bracket. Why? Because the other one from the new bike has the sheared-off centrestand bolt stuck in it! RAGH! Anyone got any advice for getting this little shit out? Right now it's practically soaking in WD-40 to see if I can get it to free itself overnight. Anyway I've given up for the evening as I have an early start tomorrow at - of all places - Honda motorcycles head office Australia. Is there some irony in there? If it is left hand thread just use normal bit(right twist) with a drill and drill it out !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted August 23, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 23, 2011 YOU LOSE, HOMEBOY!!! HACKSAW FOR THE WIN! I had a good think about this and decided that bashing it with a sledge was only going to cause more damage. Why? Because the left-side collar was stuck fast to the pivot bolt and is too big to exit through the swingarm bracket. Repeated hits were just stressing the aluminium bracket, so I hit the mutha with a hacksaw and cut off the left-side end of the pivot bolt between the collar and the swingarm bracket. Once that was done, it was a simple matter of dropping the swingarm bracket down and away and off the bike. After that, the pivot bolt and collar came out nice and easy. You hear that, you STUPID swingarm? I WIN, YOU LOSE. Now I can happily drill out the bolt on the spare bracket at my leisure. Ahhhh, time for a beer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 How did we know that you would come out on top through using perseverance And blunt force??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted August 23, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted August 23, 2011 GOOD JOB !!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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