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Installing 2006+ ECU and motor on 2002-2005 6th-gen


kaldek

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He'll probably say, "You so crazy."

Anybody found a '06 FSM on the web yet? I wanna see the schematics.

You mean a service manual? There's already an updated wiring schematic for the '06 here at VFRD, which I think was an appendix released by Honda to the 2002 manual we all have. It's on the third page.

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He'll probably say, "You so crazy."

Actually he seems to have everything I need, *except* for the wiring harness-side connectors and he would need to order 600 of them in bulk. Don't think that's gonna be realistic.

However he did say he has close ties to the HRC team and can tell me a lot about PGM-FI systems. So, I'm taking that angle - gain knowledge on the inner workings of the Honda ECU. I know how Honda works at the back end - they have this notion of "A" and "B" secrets, which can't be distributed. I guess I have to find out what stuff I *can* get access to.

Certainly I'm sick of dealing with Dynojet because they're obtuse. Here's a question for you which you'd think Dynojet should just freakin' answer straight up (but won't): Is it not a bit "odd" to overlay an Alpha-N system such as the Powercommander over an ECU which is mapping fuel using Speed-Density (MAP sensor) at small throttle positions? Wouldn't this be wildly inaccurate UNLESS you ALWAYS did map-by-gear in a PCV to take out engine load as a varying factor?

Go on, ask someone at Dynojet that question and see what kind of answer you get. I've asked them questions about the problems with the way Autotune works (doesn't take Delta throttle into account, doesn't take decelerating engine into account) and their answers aren't exactly inspiring.

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I did read the first post with reasons why to change ECU, but honestly the only advantage I can see is the lower vtec cut in as faster processor & better maps loaded into ECU mean squat when you over ride them with a pc. I think your outcome will be zero change to what you have except for the earlier vtec cut in.

My 04 which is same as your 02 which had Motad headers, BMC filter, pair valves disconnected, flapper disconnected, 02 eliminators, pc with dyno tune never had any flat spots or surging etc, the vtec transition wasn't even noticeable except for the different induction note & the black lines it left around corners. Every now & then there would be a hiccup but all motors tend to do it depending on climate conditions & a 1000 other variables.

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I did read the first post with reasons why to change ECU, but honestly the only advantage I can see is the lower vtec cut in as faster processor & better maps loaded into ECU mean squat when you over ride them with a pc. I think your outcome will be zero change to what you have except for the earlier vtec cut in.

My 04 which is same as your 02 which had Motad headers, BMC filter, pair valves disconnected, flapper disconnected, 02 eliminators, pc with dyno tune never had any flat spots or surging etc, the vtec transition wasn't even noticeable except for the different induction note & the black lines it left around corners. Every now & then there would be a hiccup but all motors tend to do it depending on climate conditions & a 1000 other variables.

I think the only answer I can give to that is "it takes one to know one". Once I've made the change I'll be able to say whether it helped. Or not, as the case may be!

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Or if you want to go to the extreme of modding basically the entire electrical system on the bike, why not look into a Microsquirt working in tandem with the factory ECU?

Just curious - how would this be an improvement over the PCV and AutoTune modules he already has fitted? Seems like he has complete control over A/F ratio and fueling, except for a few anomalies here and there.

PCV cannot, I believe, remove fuel. You're still working off of the factory map, just adding pulse width where it seems best. PCV is not a bad system but it's a rung below a full ECU, which a Megasquirt or Microsquirt is. Like a Micro can drive ignition parts as well as injectors, control fans, etc. It is somewhat limited as far as how many injector drivers it brings to the party but as long as your intake trumpets are synced and the injectors are all at flowing "the same" then it shouldn't be an issue.

What makes me think going to a 'squirt would be better than a PCV is how every story of PCIII or V install reduced fuel economy to get a bike to run right. It shouldn't be that way. I believe best mileage and performance would be found with a fully tune-able system like a 'squirt. I've yet to install one though so big grain of salt here.

But if I were going to the effort of swapping harnesses and ECU's, I'd replace it with something that would let me actually tune the thing, otherwise I'd go PCV and possibly the autotune.

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PCV cannot, I believe, remove fuel. You're still working off of the factory map, just adding pulse width where it seems best. PCV is not a bad system but it's a rung below a full ECU, which a Megasquirt or Microsquirt is. Like a Micro can drive ignition parts as well as injectors, control fans, etc. It is somewhat limited as far as how many injector drivers it brings to the party but as long as your intake trumpets are synced and the injectors are all at flowing "the same" then it shouldn't be an issue.

What makes me think going to a 'squirt would be better than a PCV is how every story of PCIII or V install reduced fuel economy to get a bike to run right. It shouldn't be that way. I believe best mileage and performance would be found with a fully tune-able system like a 'squirt. I've yet to install one though so big grain of salt here.

But if I were going to the effort of swapping harnesses and ECU's, I'd replace it with something that would let me actually tune the thing, otherwise I'd go PCV and possibly the autotune.

A Power Commander can delete fuel. It adds or deletes a percentage from the factory map.

The reason PC's tend to hurt fuel mileage is that VFR's tend to run lean, so to make an improvement, you have to add more fuel.

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The reason PC's tend to hurt fuel mileage is that VFR's tend to run lean, so to make an improvement, you have to add more fuel.

If the engine was properly fueled there wouldn't be a lean miss, which requires more throttle to make the same power. Cut out some wrist twist, get mileage back. I'd believe in the lean running thing if this engine actually liked to run that way, and it obviously doesn't.

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The reason PC's tend to hurt fuel mileage is that VFR's tend to run lean, so to make an improvement, you have to add more fuel.

If the engine was properly fueled there wouldn't be a lean miss, which requires more throttle to make the same power. Cut out some wrist twist, get mileage back. I'd believe in the lean running thing if this engine actually liked to run that way, and it obviously doesn't.

Sure, you CAN use less wrist when it's running properly, but who takes their suddenly smoother engine and responds by riding like a grandma?

And yes, FI VFR's, especially 2000+ models do tend to run on the lean side. They do not run so lean that they are missing, or requiring twice as much throttle to make the same power, but it does affect how smoothly the engine and throttle transitions feel.

I don't understand what you're saying, but now we're way :offtopic:.

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The last few posts totally confuse me from what I understand, I'm not an EFI expert so all my knowledge is from just reading & my understanding could be wrong but most VFR's run rich not lean in most cases from factory. The reason for this is safety with the factory maps because running a motor lean tends to wear parts faster to the point too lean & your melting components. There is also the 02 sensor which is designed to adjust the mixture but it also again from my understanding keep the mixture fairly rich due to the cat to help keep it cool which is programmed into the factory ECU. I have mentioned this a few times but most of the surging problems people experience is due to the cat which off throttle without major pressure to force gases past it the 02 sensor reads very low 02 content so rich-ens the mixture also is done to keep cat cool by default. With unburnt fuel & the backing up of gases this is what creates the surging feel until there is enough pressure to clear the backed up gases before the cat.

Doesn't matter what model your ECU is when you fit a pc it overrides the standard map by making adjustments to the standard map, when you have your bike tuned on the dyno with the lap link software which is the pc interface & tuning module it doesn't tune for max power or better fuel economy it tunes for best motor performance across the rev range which in turn makes the mixture rich or lean when needed. It makes your bike run smoother even with the cat because it tunes for it just like if you add different air filter or exhaust etc. I have never seen what the values are on the factory map because on the VFR from my knowledge there is noway to view them, the pc map only shows you changes it makes not what is already loading into factory ECU. The problem with the cat is over time it will start to become more of a restriction & effect fueling even more, I know of a few that have collapsed to the point it felt like you lost 50hp.

The very last mod to my vtec was the Motad headers & like most VFR's I had surging problems at times & had done every other so called mod to fix it before hand, the Motad headers should have been my first mod the difference they made to fueling, throttle response & power made every other mod pointless.

I have no problem being proven wrong because that's how you become enlightened so if there is an EFI expert (not a so called internet expert) that can shed light on the subject with facts I'm all ears.

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Alright, the parts arrived today (GRATZ SEBSPEED!!!). I've checked the connections and marked all plugs. It's a non-ABS wiring harness, which is good. Things that stand out as definitely needing attention are:

  • This harness has hazard diodes. My bike does not have a hazard switch or diodes. Depending on how my turn position relay is wired up, I may or may not have to do some re-wiring or jumpering.
  • The Vehicle Speed sensor connector is different. No big deal; re-wire job.
  • The indicator plugs are different. Expected this; also no big deal.
  • The license plate plug is different. Also no big deal.

I will need to do some wire tracing for the turn signal relays. Might try and do that tonight. I think if I can sort out all the possible issues with the sub-harness I will be in a good position to move forward like a Vector - with both direction and MAGNITUDE. Oh yeah!!

Vector-_Despicable_Me.jpg

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So you will lose your HISS?

Yeah, I'll lose HISS. I'm kinda unsure about how much I care about that.

Makes life easier if I ever lose my keys though! :fing02:

Oh, worth mentioning: the 2006+ ECU is freakin' TINY.

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There is also the 02 sensor which is designed to adjust the mixture but it also again from my understanding keep the mixture fairly rich due to the cat to help keep it cool which is programmed into the factory ECU. I have mentioned this a few times but most of the surging problems people experience is due to the cat which off throttle without major pressure to force gases past it the 02 sensor reads very low 02 content so rich-ens the mixture also is done to keep cat cool by default. With unburnt fuel & the backing up of gases this is what creates the surging feel until there is enough pressure to clear the backed up gases before the cat.

I thought the surging was from the ECU running the mixture lean when in 'closed loop' mode to meet EC emissions testing. Plus there's an issue you haven't mentioned, which is the hesitation when the ECu switches from 'closed loop' mode to mapped mode. Even just fitting O2 sensor eliminators to fix this makes the bike more rideable (I know - I did this for more than 18 months when I was between PCs).

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I thought the surging was from the ECU running the mixture lean when in 'closed loop' mode to meet EC emissions testing. Plus there's an issue you haven't mentioned, which is the hesitation when the ECu switches from 'closed loop' mode to mapped mode. Even just fitting O2 sensor eliminators to fix this makes the bike more rideable (I know - I did this for more than 18 months when I was between PCs).

The "most common" surging is indeed likely caused by the system going closed loop.

Fitting O2 eliminators should - if the PGM-FI acts anything like every other vehicle on the planet (and it probably doesn't, coz Honda is "special") - force the system to default back to an assumed reading of 0.5 volts from the O2 sensor, which lets you then tune the fuel injection however you like with your Power commander. If you disconnect the O2 sensor on a car, this is the exact behaviour - it assumes 0.5 volts (14.7 AFR) - but brings up the Check Engine light. Car folks who want to bypass closed loop fit O2 simulators (often called EFIE) which send a simulated O2 signal of 0.5 volts with the right waveform.

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Ruh-Roh! This is going downhill rapidly.

So, you yanks don't get high-beam flash/passing switches I see! Also your wiring harness seems to route the left-hand handlebar wiring completely differently to the Aussie bikes. Yay!

And I see your ignition switch has four wires but mine has three. Yay!

Gosh, the right-hand handlebar wiring is all completely different colours too. Ace!!!

OH. MY. GOD.

I've really dug myself a hole this time. Ohhh yeah. Get out the :lurk: folks coz this is going be a laugh-fest.

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You're a brave man Kal... shall I sacrifice several species of small fury animals to the gods of ECU??

Dude. Spain doesn't have the headlight switch either. Lights on at all times by law. Only the 5th gens have that switch. And our left hand switch assembly DOES have flash-to-pass trigger switch!!

Why don't you just buy a RHS switch assembly with the on-off-hazards switch built in like I did, from a country that has that stuff included (I'm in process of installing hazards on my '03 and figured it would be handy to be able to turn headlights off at will sometimes) and also get yourself a LHS one without the flash to pass trigger? Well, it is handy to have so I guess you'll be patching in the wiring to keep this feature on board, but you could just purchase a second hand (or new) RHS switch assembly and enjoy the hazard feature.

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BTW did you do THIS yet?

No actually I haven't done that; never had any issues with the front end wiring so never bothered. That connector block BTW is much easier to get to on the 2006+ wiring harness as it's right by the blue and white connector blocks. So if I ever NEED to work on it in future it should be a tad easier.

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:lurk: indeed.

Hang in there mate. You are blazing a trail; hopefully it leads somewhere you wanted to go.

It's OK. I sat down, had a couple of beers and planned my way forward. It goes like this:

  1. Make a list of the circuits with issues.
  2. Investigate each circuit's wiring requirements
  3. Draw up a plan to re-wire each circuit correctly

Whilst twiddling with the sub harness this evening, I attacked one of the circuits I know will have a problem - the indicators. I worked out how this circuit works exactly on my current harness, and so now I know how to wire this one up on the new harness.

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Righto, I'm all over this like white on rice. I've designed wiring fixes for the turn signals and also the ignition switch. Next up is the Engine Stop, Starter and hazard switch block, which looks a tad harder.

Connecting US sub-harness Turn Signals to Aussie 2002 bike without hazard lights

  1. Make jumper wire from 10 amp wire, one end with spade connector, one end bare wire
  2. On sub-harness, connect jumper wire blade-end to Left-side hazard diode grey wire socket.
  3. On sub-harness, splice bare end of jumper wire to Grey/red wire at Turn Position Relay socket
  4. On sub-harness, jumper orange/white to Orange at Turn position relay socket
  5. On sub-harness, jumper Light Blue/White to Light Blue at Turn Position Relay socket
  6. On sub-harness, tape up all other hazard diode sockets and Turn Position relay socket for weatherproofing

Connecting US main harness to Aussie 2002 ignition switch

  1. On main harness, disconnect red/white wire from Ignition switch socket
  2. On main harness, splice red/white wire at ignition switch socket into Red/Black wire at ignition switch socket

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Well, the remaining wiring connectors are taken care of too!

Connecting US main harness front brake switch wires to Aussie 2002 handlebar wires

OK if pin location in connector block is the same. Black/Green wires from handlebar wires must connect to Brown/Black and Green/Yellow on main harness connector. Order not important.

Connecting US main harness engine stop switch wires to Aussie 2002 handlebar wires

OK if pin location in connector block is the same. Black must connect to black, and White/Black must connect to White/Black.

Connecting US main harness Starter switch wires to Aussie 2002 handlebar wires

OK if pin location in connector block is the same. Yellow/Red must connect to Yellow/red, Brown/Blue must connect to Brown/Blue, and Blue/White must connecto Blue/White.

Connecting US main harness hazard switch wires to Aussie 2002 bike without hazard lights

  1. On main harness, remove Black/Brown wire from hazard switch connector block
  2. On main harness, remove Red/Blue wire from two-pin connector block (Red/Blue and White/Red) near hazard block
  3. On main harness, join Black/Brown wire with Red/Blue wire.

Connecting US main harness clutch and horn switch wires to Aussie 2002 handlebar wiring

  1. On 2002 main wiring harness, cut left-hand handlebar two-pin connector from harness with 5cm of wire remaining.
  2. On main wiring harness, remove Green/White wire from left-side 9-pin handlebar connector block
  3. On main wiring harness, join Green/White wire to 2002 harness two-pin connector block Green/White wire
  4. On main wiring harness, remove Light Green wire from left-side 9-pin handlebar connector block
  5. On main wiring harness, join Light Green wire to 2002 harness two-pin connector block Light Green wire

Connecting US main harness turn signal wires to Aussie 2002 handlebar wiring

No change required; handled by turn signal relay and right-hand handlebar wiring.

Enabling high beam flash/pass switch to US main harness

  1. Purchase new single pin connector block
  2. Create new splice wire approx 20cm in length of 10 amp cable
  3. Wire one end of splice wire to female side of new connector block
  4. On main harness, splice other end of splice wire to Brown/Blue wire at white connector block
  5. On handlebar wiring, remove Brown/Blue wire from 9-pin connector block
  6. Connect the brown/blue wire from handlebar wiring to male side of new connector block

Connecting US main harness dimmer switch wires to Aussie 2002 handlebar wiring

No change required as long as pins on either side of connector block match up. Blue must connect to Blue, and Blue/White must connect to Blue/White.

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