Member Contributer kaldek Posted July 10, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted July 10, 2011 This thread was intended to describe the conversion of my bike from a 2002 ECU to a 2006 ECU. The process was a success, however it showed that there was something else wrong I couldn't diagnose or work on anymore. So, the job changed to a complete swap-out of my 2002 motor with the motor from a 2006 bike, as well as the wiring harness and ECU from the donor bike.The ultimate job was success. For any 2002-2005 bike with a good motor and no existing strange misfring problems that come and go, the conversion to a 2006+ ECU will work fine. Just make sure that you have eradicated all possible mechanical issues before you tackle it, because in my case the new ECU on my old engine only made the existing problem worse.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------NOTE: This is currently a build in progress! Job 'aint done yet, folks.CURRENT STATUS: Bike is now running with the 2006 ECU, having some misfiring problems (unsure about relation to ECU upgrade). Skip to the end of the thread for full details.Well, after many years with my 2002 VFR and the various driveability issues at part throttle, I have decided to bite the bullet and fit a 2006 model ECU. I am not the first person to do this, but I'm going to document the whole process from beginning to end including pictures and videos. And of course, I will describe the results and changes in engine behaviour in detail. When I find the money, I will also get another custom tune. As parts arrive and I work through the process I'll post updates to this thread.Why am I doing this?Don't get me wrong, I love my bike. But every time I think I have the part-throttle response problem licked, the bike goes weird on me for a day, or two days, or one day in three, or on the ride TO work but not the ride FROM work. Sure it's not really that bad but it bugs the crap out of me not knowing what's changing and what the root cause is. I've thrown too much money at it over the years with not a huge amount to show for it.The new ECU changes lots of things! It has a much faster processor, was specifically tuned by Honda for better part throttle response, and kicks in VTEC at 6,400rpm rather than 6,800rpm meaning a fatter midrange. It was also tuned for better cruise economy.Next is the price - I have ordered all the necessary parts for $200 (all second-hand of course) and can do the swapout over the course of a weekend; one of our other members did it in five hours!What needs to be done?Unfortunately it's not good enough to just buy the ECU; the 2006+ ECU is based on the newer hardware used on the CBR1000RR and has completely different connectors. Whilst you theoretically COULD map the function of each wire and splice into the old wiring harness - after all it still plugs into the same sensors and stuff - there is 64 potential wires that need splicing. This would take quite some time! So, you need the new ECU and you also need the main wiring harness. However, the connection into the front sub-harness is ALSO different and so you need the front sub-harness as well. Subsequently, the headlight switch is wired differently in the new harness and the indicators use different connectors which are not compatible with the old indicator assemblies (these you will need to splice yourself into the old indicator plugs).Given the above, the procedure at a high level looks to be as follows: Remove old wiring harness Install new sub-harness, re-wiring the headlight connector plug and splicing into the old indicator connectors. Install main wiring harness, splicing into old rear indicator connectors Install new ECU Hit the ignition and pray the magic smoke doesn't escape! What are the likely problems?Broken wires in the new harness are the most likely problem, along with possibly poor connections made to the old engine sensors and control devices causing poor engine running. Also, for either the ABS or non-ABS model of the bike, there were five different main wiring harness part codes from Honda. How different are they? Hard to say unless you had them all in your hand, but it could be as much as a change in wire gauge, or as little as a longer or shorter piece of wire.The parts I have purchased are all from a 2007 model bike, although I don't know if the main harness is ABS or not. It shouldn't matter too much but I will need to tape up any loose ABS plugs.What am I expecting to get out of this?More consistent smooth running, better part throttle response, and better cruise fuel economy.What other benefits are there?Have you ever said to yourself "man if I could only get the wiring harness out, I would do XXXX"? I know I have. So when the new harness arrives I will remove the ground blocks and solder all the wires together, and then fit heavy gauge wire all the way from the regulator plug to the 30 amp Main Fuse B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 AND? Yer killen me here! One teaser post, then.......nothing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted July 10, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 10, 2011 AND? Yer killen me here! One teaser post, then.......nothing? I did say it's a BUILD thread!!! The parts are on their way to Seb's house, then he's gonna forward them to me as a bulk job. Gotta give a man some time! I'll edit my first post to remove the tease factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Cogswell Posted July 10, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted July 10, 2011 This should be really interesting. Best of luck - looking forward to see how it turns out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Ryanme17 Posted July 11, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted July 11, 2011 Isn't the 2006+ ECU also map-by-gear? Or did you already do this with your PCV by rigging up a speed sensor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted July 11, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 11, 2011 Isn't the 2006+ ECU also map-by-gear? Or did you already do this with your PCV by rigging up a speed sensor? Yeah it is map by gear, but as for how different each gear's map is? Anyone's guess really. But yeah, I already have the PCV speed sensor rigged up and have previously toyed with different maps and Autotune AFR tables per gear. So I'm all set on that front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Ranger77 Posted July 11, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted July 11, 2011 I got my popcorn out. I just did a test run with my '01 now with an '07 throttlebody system (still '01 ecu). Just gotta fine tune now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Ryanme17 Posted July 11, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted July 11, 2011 Yeah it is map by gear, but as for how different each gear's map is? Anyone's guess really. But yeah, I already have the PCV speed sensor rigged up and have previously toyed with different maps and Autotune AFR tables per gear. So I'm all set on that front. Wouldn't this make it easier to set up map-by-gear on a PCV? Since there is already a speed sensor rigged up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted July 11, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 11, 2011 Doing some research tonight, I've discoverd my first snag. Aussie bikes do not have a headlight switch - they are forced on all the time by law - and we also do not have a hazard switch (at least on '02 models). Can someone with an '06 or later tell me how many positions their headlight switch has? Is it OFF-HEADLIGHT-HAZARD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Ranger77 Posted July 11, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted July 11, 2011 US models low beams are on all the time if thats what you are talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer carlitos92 Posted July 11, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted July 11, 2011 Can someone with an '06 or later tell me how many positions their headlight switch has? Is it OFF-HEADLIGHT-HAZARD? Headlight switch (left grip) only alternates between low and high beam positions. Hazard flashers (right grip) are totally unrelated and are either on or off. There is an ignition key position clockwise from "Run" which allows the hazards to be operated without powering the other lighting, fuel pump, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rice Posted July 11, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted July 11, 2011 Doing some research tonight, I've discoverd my first snag. Aussie bikes do not have a headlight switch - they are forced on all the time by law - and we also do not have a hazard switch (at least on '02 models). Can someone with an '06 or later tell me how many positions their headlight switch has? Is it OFF-HEADLIGHT-HAZARD? Two positions - Low and High. You can't turn it off completely w/o the use of a hammer I owned an 02 and understand your frustration. Now, that I have an 06, here are my observations: - The low throttle response still sucks. - Everything else, like VTEC is much improved. What I did on my 02 to remedy the low rpm issues was to install Turbo City FPR, plug the PAIR system and eliminated the O2 sensors. That made fuel economy poor but helped tremendously with the low rpm issues. VTEC I just got used to. To battle the low RPM issues in the 06, I installed this progressive cam throttle thingy, which helped out enough that it doesn't annoy me any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted July 11, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 11, 2011 Heh. I think we have a language barrier! What you guys call the headlight switch I would call the high beam switch, because the right-handlebar has always been used for turning headlights on or off in Australia. It's only modern bikes which have the switch removed so that the lights can't be turned off. We literally have a blank plate where the switch would be on the right handlebar. Up until 2005 at least, the European bikes did not have hazard lights but DID have a switch on the right handlebar for turning the headlights on and off, which in your case appears to be used for hazards. I guess this means that I have some customisations to my bike which none of you would see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rivcyko Posted July 11, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted July 11, 2011 Unsubstantiated speculation, BUT, (As I haven't done the actual research), Isn't there a valve difference, as well as gearing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted July 11, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 11, 2011 Unsubstantiated speculation, BUT, (As I haven't done the actual research), Isn't there a valve difference, as well as gearing? Nah, checked that and the camshaft parts for all bikes are identical. Also, all the parts for the transmission (gearbox) are also identical, as is the sprockets. Various other threads have confirmed all the changes were electrical or fuel related, with the ECU and injectors being the major functional change to the way the engine sucks air & gas. I already have the injectors in my bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer pres589 Posted July 11, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted July 11, 2011 What about a de-pin job on the cable assembly side ECU connector, the plug, and re-pin into a connector appropriate for the 2006+ ECU? I don't know what kind of tooling would be best to do that but it seems about 100x easier than what you're talking about doing. Or if you want to go to the extreme of modding basically the entire electrical system on the bike, why not look into a Microsquirt working in tandem with the factory ECU? This assumes one thing, that the factory ignition is well set up and the tractability problems are on the fuel side, but if you want to take that bet, it should be pretty easy to get a 'squirt going running off of tach signal from a coil on the bike. What happens then? Easy integration of a wide band O2 sensor with the microsquirt for real time data logging (you'll want something like a netbook running in a piece of luggage) and building of a fuel map for your bike. You wouldn't have gear to gear differences in mapping but I don't think it would be missed. The factory ECU could deal with sensors like the ignition and running the fans and such (or with a relay you could control one with the 'squirt, which seems like a great idea) and all that other less interesting stuff as well as the VTEC nonsense. I just don't see much gain in this with the 2006+ ECU. My 2 cents and I know of no one that's done the MS route and I've been talking about it for a couple years and gone nowhere with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Ranger77 Posted July 12, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted July 12, 2011 Where there more physical sensors added to the engine on the '06+? If not, then I don't see why you couldn't just straight up use a '06+ harness and ecu and been done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vfr980002 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Where there more physical sensors added to the engine on the '06+? If not, then I don't see why you couldn't just straight up use a '06+ harness and ecu and been done. Forgive me if I'm not reading this correct, but about a month ago I bought a 2002 Non ABS CPU thinking that my CPU bit the dust. It did not so I have an extra CPU I'd be willing to sell you for what I bought it for 100 dollars. Please E-mail me @ VFR980002@yahoo.com if this is something your interested in. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vfr980002 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Where there more physical sensors added to the engine on the '06+? If not, then I don't see why you couldn't just straight up use a '06+ harness and ecu and been done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted July 12, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 12, 2011 Where there more physical sensors added to the engine on the '06+? If not, then I don't see why you couldn't just straight up use a '06+ harness and ecu and been done. There are no additional sensors. Essentially what you're suggesting is what I'm doing, except that I have Aussie headlight switch and indicator hardware which needs some tweaks to the front harness. Believe me if I could just plug an '06 main harness into an '02 front harness I'd freakin' do it, but the other member (CBR600F4i) who has already done this mod said that's not possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer carlitos92 Posted July 12, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted July 12, 2011 Or if you want to go to the extreme of modding basically the entire electrical system on the bike, why not look into a Microsquirt working in tandem with the factory ECU? Just curious - how would this be an improvement over the PCV and AutoTune modules he already has fitted? Seems like he has complete control over A/F ratio and fueling, except for a few anomalies here and there. Forgive me if I'm not reading this correct, but about a month ago I bought a 2002 Non ABS CPU thinking that my CPU bit the dust. It did not so I have an extra CPU I'd be willing to sell you for what I bought it for 100 dollars. Pretty sure he is fitting the 2006+ ECU specifically for the improvements it has over the 2002-2005 units - he talks about it a bit in the first post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted July 12, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 12, 2011 What about a de-pin job on the cable assembly side ECU connector, the plug, and re-pin into a connector appropriate for the 2006+ ECU? This is a fair call, but I see this as actually quite risky. The pins are different sizes so it basically needs a de-solder and re-solder on each of the 64 wires. That would take longer than replacing the wiring harness. Anyway, if I was really smart, I'd engage some factory to make '02-to-'06 ECU adapter connectors so that you keep your old wiring harness. But that would involve finding what the connectors are called, tracing all the wiring, etc. I'm too lazy for that at the moment but maybe I'll learn enough that I think this is possible? It wouldn't be the first Honda owner to start building and selling their own electrical kits. There's a guy named Patrick Fruth (pdfruth) on the 1000rr.net forums who builds exhaust servo simulators using PIC hardware and sells them for $20. It did wonders for my CBR1000RR track bike's constant MIL light problem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Ranger77 Posted July 12, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted July 12, 2011 Or if you want to go to the extreme of modding basically the entire electrical system on the bike, why not look into a Microsquirt working in tandem with the factory ECU? Just curious - how would this be an improvement over the PCV and AutoTune modules he already has fitted? Seems like he has complete control over A/F ratio and fueling, except for a few anomalies here and there. Forgive me if I'm not reading this correct, but about a month ago I bought a 2002 Non ABS CPU thinking that my CPU bit the dust. It did not so I have an extra CPU I'd be willing to sell you for what I bought it for 100 dollars. Pretty sure he is fitting the 2006+ ECU specifically for the improvements it has over the 2002-2005 units - he talks about it a bit in the first post. There's almost nothing you can't do with megasquirt. It's fully customizable down to each injector. You get to do what those high dollar paid people get to do. It is a lot of work though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted July 12, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 12, 2011 Huh. Just found a guy - in Australia no less - who has access to Honda ECU connectors, specifically for this kind of work (actually replacement of stock ECU with aftermarket into existing wiring harness). I wonder what he'll say - I've asked him if he has the stuff I would need to make an adapter block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Ranger77 Posted July 12, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted July 12, 2011 He'll probably say, "You so crazy." Anybody found a '06 FSM on the web yet? I wanna see the schematics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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