Member Contributer billyjackjimbob Posted May 1, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted May 1, 2011 Just got finished installing the VFRness with the fuse box, digital volt meter, Ricks RR and the Blue Connector jumper. Battery replaced with a new one too. Stator replaced in Oct has maybe 1500 miles on it. When the bike was first started and cold before any products were installed I was getting 14.3 volts. Rode across town to my friends house where we were going to do the install, maybe 7 miles. When I pulled in we checked the volts and I only could get 12.3 volts. Changed out the RR and no improvement. Same with each step. High beams on and all I can get 12.3. 13ish running only low beams. Stator has a one year warranty, so she goes to Honda tomorrow to talk to them about stator replacement. Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 You say that you have a new battery, but was it properly charged before installation? Might be worth checking it (charge, load test, etc...). All electrical connectors and grounds would be another place to look. If that's not the issue, I really feel your pain. Were I in your shoes I'd go with a Honda rr, because I've heard of too many people having issues with Rick's stuff. Is your stator from Honda or Rick's? Hope it's a simple fix for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer billyjackjimbob Posted May 6, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted May 6, 2011 Dealership is saying they THINK it's the RR and that the Ricks RR is a wire/pin short of the factory part. Electrical experts I am looking for feedback.... They are going to put a factory RR on and see how that goes. They love my voltage meter by the way. My mechanic says it's dead on which was my opinion too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer johnmark101 Posted May 6, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted May 6, 2011 The Rick's RR eliminates the monitor wire. Not sure why but I think it has to do with the fact that it's not a shunt type RR like the OEM, but instead has an internal on/off switch to control current. The OEM just dumps unneeded current to ground. I was getting ony 13.2 volts with the OEM and installed the Rick's RR.....now getting 14.4. Have only been on one ride since install. Taking a four day trip soon and may carry the OEM as a spare since it was still working........somewhat. Keep us posted Billy Jack. These electrical gremlins are a pain!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I think the R/R is fine. I am curious what you will find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 With aftermarket electrical parts in the bike, Highly doubt Honda will pay for anything related to the matter , I'd really be shocked. Should have stayed oEM. ive seen the same thing over and over, create all kind of issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 The Rick's RR eliminates the monitor wire. Not sure why but I think it has to do with the fact that it's not a shunt type RR like the OEM, but instead has an internal on/off switch to control current. The OEM just dumps unneeded current to ground. I was getting ony 13.2 volts with the OEM and installed the Rick's RR.....now getting 14.4. Have only been on one ride since install. Taking a four day trip soon and may carry the OEM as a spare since it was still working........somewhat. Keep us posted Billy Jack. These electrical gremlins are a pain!! A good 6th gen OEM system will have 14.7volt when you test it, if not getting that, theres an issue. Having said that, the biggest issue on the 6th gen, is the wiring contacts, the RR's are solid, The stators still average well over 50,000 mile, Which is considered above average for a typical motorcycle. The majority of bikes stators, fail way less than 50,000 mile. I think the Biggest issue on the 6th gen is starting out with good wring prep, always exceptions, but my first oem stator failed at 56,000 mile, the second oem now has near 30,000 mile, my wiring is totally stock and clean other than ensuring the contacts mechanically sound, and tested for PURE continuity, and prepped with wd40 , (no silcone electrical grease). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted May 7, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted May 7, 2011 The Rick's RR eliminates the monitor wire. Not sure why but I think it has to do with the fact that it's not a shunt type RR like the OEM, but instead has an internal on/off switch to control current. The OEM just dumps unneeded current to ground. The ONLY non-shunt reg/recs are the series-type made by CompuFire and Cycle Electric. I just checked--Rick's does not sell them. The "newer" type of shunt reg/rec uses MOSFET technology, but they still shunt excess current to ground and produce heat. Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2thdr Posted May 7, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted May 7, 2011 For me the fix was Tightwad's VFRness, and then cutting out the big, white stator-R/R connector and using crimp on connectors to splice it all together. Has worked like a champ since. My white connector melted into a wad of goo BTW. As others (search for Kaldek's posts) have noted, that connector in particular is crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspanglish Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 NOW READ THIS... It is something certain Official Honda mechanic's have used as part of the solution to the VTEC wiring problem over here in Spain... we just do it at home DIY, to save cash... the monitoring wire means poop... 1998-1999 R/Rs don't have a monitoring wire... ok, they do fry as well but VTEC R/Rs with the monitoring wire also fry... I've been through umpteen R/Rs... tried them all... the latest Mofset one I bought from Tightwad has been the best so far at keeping cool... but I also did the BYC mod... (and the blue connector... and the VFRness, which I am currently not running.. long story on that one...) DO THE BYC FIX!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Polarbear Posted May 7, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted May 7, 2011 NOW READ THIS... It is something certain Official Honda mechanic's have used as part of the solution to the VTEC wiring problem over here in Spain... we just do it at home DIY, to save cash... the monitoring wire means poop... 1998-1999 R/Rs don't have a monitoring wire... ok, they do fry as well but VTEC R/Rs with the monitoring wire also fry... I've been through umpteen R/Rs... tried them all... the latest Mofset one I bought from Tightwad has been the best so far at keeping cool... but I also did the BYC mod... (and the blue connector... and the VFRness, which I am currently not running.. long story on that one...) DO THE BYC FIX!!! Has anyone used the R/R from the new VFR1200?!? Just wondering. Maybe they fixed all problems on this new one?? C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 If the Compufire doesn't generate any heat, why does it have cooling fins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 If the Compufire doesn't generate any heat, why does it have cooling fins? Really with the drop in voltage, Im pretty sure the compufire is pulling more current . Jury is still out on those, but The r1's #1 failure, is the mosfet RR. Ive never had an RR fail on any bike yet. Stators, are normally the failure. The old defunt 5th gen model, now it defintely had an RR issue, but my stock 6th gen RR does not run hot, I ve ridden 200 mile., and put bare hand on it.. Maybe guys need to run more electrical devices so the RR isnt dissipating wattage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 If the Compufire doesn't generate any heat, why does it have cooling fins? Really with the drop in voltage, Im pretty sure the compufire is pulling more current . Jury is still out on those, but The r1's #1 failure, is the mosfet RR. Ive never had an RR fail on any bike yet. Stators, are normally the failure. The old defunt 5th gen model, now it defintely had an RR issue, but my stock 6th gen RR does not run hot, I ve ridden 200 mile., and put bare hand on it.. Maybe guys need to run more electrical devices so the RR isnt dissipating wattage. According to the Compufire documentation, it only causes the stator to produce what is needed, thus no extra to waste as heat. I just did a test...I have been getting 14.3 volts all the time on my bike. I ordered a Ricks R/R to install. I had previously had a stator connector meltdown. I first used a normal 90-97 style stator connector to repair it. With the new Ricks R/R I went back to stock connector (on both the stator and my oem R/R). The OEM R/R seemed to work fine with it, but I noticed it was heating up under load....with high beams and grips on it go to 140 degrees, measured on the body of the R/R, pretty fast. I also noticed the stator wires heating up. Next I installed the Ricks unit, and it immediately began charging at 14.9 volts. I loaded it up with high beams and grips and ran it for 5 minutes. Body of the R/R got to 125 degrees and was slowly climbing, but I was worried the ambient heat from the radiator might begin making a difference at this point. The stator wires (stator side) were again heating up, but not as hot as before. I may install a stator, just to see the difference, but not right now as I don't have one on hand. I do like that the R/R was able to generate the full expected voltage, where the working OEM unit was beginning to lag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted May 8, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted May 8, 2011 If the Compufire doesn't generate any heat, why does it have cooling fins? Good question...for an EE! The Cycle Electric one has even bigger fins, apparently. I have to say that in my VFR experience, which started with my FL in 1990, VFR reg/recs have failed at least twice as often as stators. I've personally lost two reg/recs and no stators since 1990... Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspanglish Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 If the Compufire doesn't generate any heat, why does it have cooling fins? Really with the drop in voltage, Im pretty sure the compufire is pulling more current . Jury is still out on those, but The r1's #1 failure, is the mosfet RR. Ive never had an RR fail on any bike yet. Stators, are normally the failure. The old defunt 5th gen model, now it defintely had an RR issue, but my stock 6th gen RR does not run hot, I ve ridden 200 mile., and put bare hand on it.. Maybe guys need to run more electrical devices so the RR isnt dissipating wattage. According to the Compufire documentation, it only causes the stator to produce what is needed, thus no extra to waste as heat. I just did a test...I have been getting 14.3 volts all the time on my bike. I ordered a Ricks R/R to install. I had previously had a stator connector meltdown. I first used a normal 90-97 style stator connector to repair it. With the new Ricks R/R I went back to stock connector (on both the stator and my oem R/R). The OEM R/R seemed to work fine with it, but I noticed it was heating up under load....with high beams and grips on it go to 140 degrees, measured on the body of the R/R, pretty fast. I also noticed the stator wires heating up. Next I installed the Ricks unit, and it immediately began charging at 14.9 volts. I loaded it up with high beams and grips and ran it for 5 minutes. Body of the R/R got to 125 degrees and was slowly climbing, but I was worried the ambient heat from the radiator might begin making a difference at this point. The stator wires (stator side) were again heating up, but not as hot as before. I may install a stator, just to see the difference, but not right now as I don't have one on hand. I do like that the R/R was able to generate the full expected voltage, where the working OEM unit was beginning to lag. How can that be?? the stator doesn't take orders from the R/R and stop producing... I understood that as long as the motor is turning, the rotor/stator combo is producing voltage... and the faster it runs the more V AC it produces... it's the R/R that has to deal with that... Maybe I'm wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted May 11, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted May 11, 2011 According to the Compufire documentation, it only causes the stator to produce what is needed, thus no extra to waste as heat. How can that be?? the stator doesn't take orders from the R/R and stop producing... I understood that as long as the motor is turning, the rotor/stator combo is producing voltage... and the faster it runs the more V AC it produces... it's the R/R that has to deal with that... It does actually stop producing power, because it's a "switching" regulator, not a linear regulator. Here's an excellent link describing the difference in current in the stator when using a linear regulator vs. Switched regulator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted May 11, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted May 11, 2011 The bigger fins might be for heat dissipation from an external over load and not for regulating voltage !!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer billyjackjimbob Posted May 11, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted May 11, 2011 So the bike goes back onto the lift this afternoon to install a Honda RR. I am totally not thinking that's going to fix it but what ever.... Talked with the manager just now and explained that I still think it's the stator which should be under warranty from Ricks as it was installed in September. I am working double shifts all week and this weekend so I can't even begin to think about riding... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer billyjackjimbob Posted June 4, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 4, 2011 Well, got the Viffer back from the shop today. After many other troubleshooting attempts they pulled the Ricks stator and sent it back for inspection, part of the normal warranty process with Ricks. It was found that three loops of windings had pin holes in the insulation which was causing the poor performance of the stator. Ricks replaced it at no charge and dispute putting many hours of troubleshooting into the bike, my dealer charged me for only one hour of labor. Out of pocket $65. Fare, I believe since I told them it was the stator when I brought it in. Now the bike is charging a healthy 14.7-14.8 at anything above idle and high 13s at idle. Voltage doesn't budge when running the fan and high beams and charging my iPhone. Rode to work 50 miles each way and no signs of problems. So now with my digital meter, VFRness bundle, new Ricks RR & stator I have a used but perfectly working OEM RR I will be putting into the "Pay it Forward" file. Now if the stinking job would give me a break I would be heading for NC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 If the Compufire doesn't generate any heat, why does it have cooling fins? Really with the drop in voltage, Im pretty sure the compufire is pulling more current . Jury is still out on those, but The r1's #1 failure, is the mosfet RR. Ive never had an RR fail on any bike yet. Stators, are normally the failure. The old defunt 5th gen model, now it defintely had an RR issue, but my stock 6th gen RR does not run hot, I ve ridden 200 mile., and put bare hand on it.. Maybe guys need to run more electrical devices so the RR isnt dissipating wattage. According to the Compufire documentation, it only causes the stator to produce what is needed, thus no extra to waste as heat. I just did a test...I have been getting 14.3 volts all the time on my bike. I ordered a Ricks R/R to install. I had previously had a stator connector meltdown. I first used a normal 90-97 style stator connector to repair it. With the new Ricks R/R I went back to stock connector (on both the stator and my oem R/R). The OEM R/R seemed to work fine with it, but I noticed it was heating up under load....with high beams and grips on it go to 140 degrees, measured on the body of the R/R, pretty fast. I also noticed the stator wires heating up. Next I installed the Ricks unit, and it immediately began charging at 14.9 volts. I loaded it up with high beams and grips and ran it for 5 minutes. Body of the R/R got to 125 degrees and was slowly climbing, but I was worried the ambient heat from the radiator might begin making a difference at this point. The stator wires (stator side) were again heating up, but not as hot as before. I may install a stator, just to see the difference, but not right now as I don't have one on hand. I do like that the R/R was able to generate the full expected voltage, where the working OEM unit was beginning to lag. How can that be?? the stator doesn't take orders from the R/R and stop producing... I understood that as long as the motor is turning, the rotor/stator combo is producing voltage... and the faster it runs the more V AC it produces... it's the R/R that has to deal with that... Maybe I'm wrong... If people are disabling the monitor wire, the RR IS probably shunting FULL unused STATOr power to GROUND . Whats the whole purpose of the monitor wire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Glad you got it fixed cheaply BJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrelman Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Instant, automatic stator failure if the 3 yellow wire connector melts and allows any 2 wires to touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspanglish Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Well, got the Viffer back from the shop today. After many other troubleshooting attempts they pulled the Ricks stator and sent it back for inspection, part of the normal warranty process with Ricks. It was found that three loops of windings had pin holes in the insulation which was causing the poor performance of the stator. Ricks replaced it at no charge and dispute putting many hours of troubleshooting into the bike, my dealer charged me for only one hour of labor. Out of pocket $65. Fare, I believe since I told them it was the stator when I brought it in. Now the bike is charging a healthy 14.7-14.8 at anything above idle and high 13s at idle. Voltage doesn't budge when running the fan and high beams and charging my iPhone. Rode to work 50 miles each way and no signs of problems. So now with my digital meter, VFRness bundle, new Ricks RR & stator I have a used but perfectly working OEM RR I will be putting into the "Pay it Forward" file. Now if the stinking job would give me a break I would be heading for NC! Glad to see you got it sorted!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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