toddulu Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 My battery is pooched right now - I'm going to order one of these MOTY 8 cell units. A Yuasa standard battery here is about $120 anyway - for the extra $40 I see advantages that are worth it. Couldn't get to the Shorai website - wonder if they are toast? I think I read somewhere that he charges an extra $10 to ship to the Great White North. Also, just to give the guy some credit, he emailed me back within like 5 minutes of sending the PayPal payment letting me know he had received it. About an hour later he emailed me a picture of the package addressed to me w/ a USPS tracking label on it. Great service ordering on a Saturday and getting it in the mail the same day!!!:biggrin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanadianKen Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 My battery is pooched right now - I'm going to order one of these MOTY 8 cell units. A Yuasa standard battery here is about $120 anyway - for the extra $40 I see advantages that are worth it. Couldn't get to the Shorai website - wonder if they are toast? I think I read somewhere that he charges an extra $10 to ship to the Great White North. Also, just to give the guy some credit, he emailed me back within like 5 minutes of sending the PayPal payment letting me know he had received it. About an hour later he emailed me a picture of the package addressed to me w/ a USPS tracking label on it. Great service ordering on a Saturday and getting it in the mail the same day!!!:biggrin: Thats AOK with me!! I get tired of folks in the USA that aren't willing to ship north of the border due to having to fill out a form for customs. $10 for extra shipping - done deal. Sounds like he's providing great customer service. Thanks for the extra info. And as for the BARF group buy - I'd rather go with the quick disconnects as well. Thanks for that heads up though! :fing02: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 An agm yuasa weighs about 7 or 8 lb, you save about 6 lbs and get alot of unproven risk at a much higher price. I just dont get it myself , and good AGM's dont Leak, but should be interesting entertainment value in following the topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted February 6, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted February 6, 2011 My battery is pooched right now - I'm going to order one of these MOTY 8 cell units. A Yuasa standard battery here is about $120 anyway - for the extra $40 I see advantages that are worth it. Couldn't get to the Shorai website - wonder if they are toast? I think I read somewhere that he charges an extra $10 to ship to the Great White North. Also, just to give the guy some credit, he emailed me back within like 5 minutes of sending the PayPal payment letting me know he had received it. About an hour later he emailed me a picture of the package addressed to me w/ a USPS tracking label on it. Great service ordering on a Saturday and getting it in the mail the same day!!!:biggrin: +1 I emailed the guy and within an hour he answered back, and then I shot him paypal money I think on a Monday, and I had the battery in hand on Wednesday. Service wise, I would definately order from him again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted February 6, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted February 6, 2011 I've been reading a bit about this new wave in battery tech, and it seems the cell to use is the a123 Systems. The first guys making and selling these batteries to the moto community were getting the genuine article, but now a lot of Chinese knock-offs are in the market and harming the reputations of these style batteries. One way to find the real deal yourself is to get a DeWalt 36v battery pack. Apparently they have enough cells in them for two bike batteries. (presumably 18?) I've seen some tutorials on youtube about taking the cells out, and of building the bike style battery. DeWalt packs go for a little more than the bike battery retails. So if you have the proper soldering tools, wiring and plugs, and the heat shrink wrapping you could have two batteries at a good price. There's a guy in Oz making them with hard plastic top and bottom plates that are bolted together. But theory is those defeat the built in failure venting on the end caps, and cause the cell to explode if there is a failure. I think that a123 is in the process of building a new plant outside Detroit, so perhaps in the near future these batteries will be much more readily and cheaply available? Our buddy Jared (Thirdgenlxi, he of the 200,000+ mile F4i) recently got one of the MOTY batteries. I believe the first one failed rather quickly, but was replaced at no cost, no problem. Haven't heard anything else after that. But then maybe I haven't been paying attention... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bryan217 Posted February 6, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted February 6, 2011 My battery is pooched right now - I'm going to order one of these MOTY 8 cell units. A Yuasa standard battery here is about $120 anyway - for the extra $40 I see advantages that are worth it. Couldn't get to the Shorai website - wonder if they are toast? Maybe it's a Canadian thing. I have no problem. Here's the link for the 6th Gen w/ABS. When I talked to the guy at the show, he suggested the higher model to me because of my alarm, GPS, and heated gear all running off the battery. http://www.shoraipower.com/s-49353-VFR800-A-Interceptor-ABS.aspx Here's their main page: http://www.shoraipower.com/Default.aspx? Personally, I'd rather deal with a company that (hopefully) stands be find their product rather than rig something up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted February 6, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted February 6, 2011 I've been reading a bit about this new wave in battery tech, and it seems the cell to use is the a123 Systems. The first guys making and selling these batteries to the moto community were getting the genuine article, but now a lot of Chinese knock-offs are in the market and harming the reputations of these style batteries. One way to find the real deal yourself is to get a DeWalt 36v battery pack. Apparently they have enough cells in them for two bike batteries. (presumably 18?) I've seen some tutorials on youtube about taking the cells out, and of building the bike style battery. DeWalt packs go for a little more than the bike battery retails. So if you have the proper soldering tools, wiring and plugs, and the heat shrink wrapping you could have two batteries at a good price. There's a guy in Oz making them with hard plastic top and bottom plates that are bolted together. But theory is those defeat the built in failure venting on the end caps, and cause the cell to explode if there is a failure. I think that a123 is in the process of building a new plant outside Detroit, so perhaps in the near future these batteries will be much more readily and cheaply available? Our buddy Jared (Thirdgenlxi, he of the 200,000+ mile F4i) recently got one of the MOTY batteries. I believe the first one failed rather quickly, but was replaced at no cost, no problem. Haven't heard anything else after that. But then maybe I haven't been paying attention... Tesla of the electric car fame is banking on these A123 batteries, and so is quite a few other electric car projects going on in the industry. I figure if these guys are planning on working with the batteries now and into the future, use for running a motorcyle should be cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted February 13, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted February 13, 2011 I've been reading a bit about this new wave in battery tech, and it seems the cell to use is the a123 Systems. The first guys making and selling these batteries to the moto community were getting the genuine article, but now a lot of Chinese knock-offs are in the market and harming the reputations of these style batteries. One way to find the real deal yourself is to get a DeWalt 36v battery pack. Apparently they have enough cells in them for two bike batteries. (presumably 18?) I've seen some tutorials on youtube about taking the cells out, and of building the bike style battery. DeWalt packs go for a little more than the bike battery retails. So if you have the proper soldering tools, wiring and plugs, and the heat shrink wrapping you could have two batteries at a good price. There's a guy in Oz making them with hard plastic top and bottom plates that are bolted together. But theory is those defeat the built in failure venting on the end caps, and cause the cell to explode if there is a failure. I think that a123 is in the process of building a new plant outside Detroit, so perhaps in the near future these batteries will be much more readily and cheaply available? Our buddy Jared (Thirdgenlxi, he of the 200,000+ mile F4i) recently got one of the MOTY batteries. I believe the first one failed rather quickly, but was replaced at no cost, no problem. Haven't heard anything else after that. But then maybe I haven't been paying attention... Tesla of the electric car fame is banking on these A123 batteries, and so is quite a few other electric car projects going on in the industry. I figure if these guys are planning on working with the batteries now and into the future, use for running a motorcyle should be cake. I saw a story on NOVA recently featuring a drag bike in CO, and they are using a123 batteries as well. Huge letters on the fairings, so I bet they are getting a good deal! :biggrin: That's where I heard they are building a factory outside Detroit, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Good AGM's dont leak , no way is a camara battery going to out perform a top line AGM in reliablity ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roebling3 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 For those whom might rather wait and see regarding new battery technologies, (myself an electrical dumbass, thank you ;) ). I've had extraordinary good luck with Westco sealed glass mat gell cell batteries. Perhaps it's the knock-on-wood each time I relate that it's 10 years old. Never a wimper despite temperatures to zero and ~100 F. I put it in the Guzzi Daytona, added a powerlet connector for electric jacket liner and gloves, + the rare time I remember to add a charge. And I only put 1K or so miles on that bike / year. IIRC it was ~80 bux @ the time. I have 2 more Westco's doing well so far. Good fortune, R~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted February 14, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted February 14, 2011 Good AGM's dont leak , no way is a camara battery going to out perform a top line AGM in reliablity ever. I'm not concerned whether it does or doesnt out perform an AGM. I think it's an apples and oranges comparison. With the big push in green tech and electric cars coming on, I think these batterys have been validated enough to consider thier use. I think proof of that is the ramp up of a production plant. So I dont mind being an early adopter. Part of that goes with my automotive engineering background. For me, its the quick on/off the bike, grab in one hand, no charging over the winter, zero acid/fluid in the thing and no maintenence, that seals it for me. If I go by specs, my guess is 5 years on it. If it does that, its a success. I'm willing to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I saw the thing on the BARF forum and emailed the MOTY guy to show him all the buzzon the VFR forum and hopefully lead to a group buy here as well. Like the others, I got a response very quickly and he was very concerned about the one that failed (I hadn't noticed until he pointed it out) He was also concerned his packaging appearance wasn't up to snuff compared to his competitors. My thoughts are I like the package, I think it looks stealthy and top secret,lol and I think through his awesome customer service and genuine concern for every item being perfect his business is going to do extremely well. I'm buying one as soon as my debit card stops crying from all the recent bike purchases,lol You don't have to take my word for it- email the guy. P.s. this is the email response I received and I'm in no way affiliated with MOTY I'd just really like to see the little guy make it for once :) Michael, thank you for your post, i was not aware of that conversation. the VFR group is a very tight niche group. i really would like to post up there however we feel that would cause damage to the credibility of the thread and possibly stir up a troll or two ;). i would comment on the battery that was taken care of for warranty issues, but i think bringing that up would only bring doubt to potential buyers. every product has once in a while issues, and good customer service is all that is needed to insure a new part is put back in their hands that will perform as described. nothing more really can be said until i get the battery back and get to look at it. as for cell quality that was brought up, we def. use genuine A123 cells and can provide photo evidence of the NEW green cells that are labled A123. the dewalt cells (often called paper cells, cause they were wrapped in a card board) that have been talked about were manufactured in 2007. i willl also admit a few of the competitors are beating me to a better looking package. i am still working on that but just have been more focused on product diversity. we have opened up and started manufacturing tire warmers, full race suits are just about ready to be released, and a few other products are just around the corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer VFRBulldawg Posted February 14, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted February 14, 2011 So slight change of direction with this thread. I still have the original factory battery in my 2003 VFR. Is it not normal for a factory battery to last this long (8 years)? I and the previous owner have kept it on a trickle charger most of the time. It seems a little weaker on cold mornings than it used to be and I have been considering replacing it just as precaution since I don't want to go on a long trip somewhere, not take the trickle charger, and then not be able to get the bike going in the morning. But what is the normal life of the original factory battery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted February 14, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted February 14, 2011 So slight change of direction with this thread. I still have the original factory battery in my 2003 VFR. Is it not normal for a factory battery to last this long (8 years)? I and the previous owner have kept it on a trickle charger most of the time. It seems a little weaker on cold mornings than it used to be and I have been considering replacing it just as precaution since I don't want to go on a long trip somewhere, not take the trickle charger, and then not be able to get the bike going in the morning. But what is the normal life of the original factory battery? I bought my Valkyrie new in the summer of 2000 and still have the factory battery. Now that's crazy. 8 -10 years is nutz for a factory battery, I expect I will have to replace it come spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted February 14, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted February 14, 2011 So slight change of direction with this thread. I still have the original factory battery in my 2003 VFR. Is it not normal for a factory battery to last this long (8 years)? I and the previous owner have kept it on a trickle charger most of the time. It seems a little weaker on cold mornings than it used to be and I have been considering replacing it just as precaution since I don't want to go on a long trip somewhere, not take the trickle charger, and then not be able to get the bike going in the morning. But what is the normal life of the original factory battery? You could run it until it dies, just to see how long it goes... My personal opinion is that the entire electrical system lasts longer with regular use. If not, then using a trickle charger keeps the battery going. That said, I think you got your money's worth out of that OE battery. Go ahead and replace it! :fing02: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 So slight change of direction with this thread. I still have the original factory battery in my 2003 VFR. Is it not normal for a factory battery to last this long (8 years)? I and the previous owner have kept it on a trickle charger most of the time. It seems a little weaker on cold mornings than it used to be and I have been considering replacing it just as precaution since I don't want to go on a long trip somewhere, not take the trickle charger, and then not be able to get the bike going in the morning. But what is the normal life of the original factory battery? 40 to 50,000 miles , or 3 or 4 year. Northern climates tend to be better for battery life , Texas heat is very hard on batteries, Even car batteriers wont yeild more than about 5 years. My original VFR battery was a Fukarama AGM, around 42,000 miles it started weakening (taht was 2 years, this second battery is an ST1300 Yuasa < outstanding battery and has already surpassed the original in milege (with 44,000 miles) with no sign of weakening and its about 3 years old. I always felt the original vfr battery, was just adaquate, the ST 1300 Yuasa, it is the Top DOG, exact same size and exact fit item, alittle more cranking amp and alittle more reserve power. I paid $120 for the st online, that would also be the replacement, its that good , no reason to look elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I have two concerns regarding the use of A123 cells for a motorcycle battery. I have considered making my own to test with, just to see how it performed. My concerns are: #1. Cell balancing for charging/discharging. The individual cells should never be discharged more than 1/2 way, or overcharged past (I think) 4.1 volts...3.7 is I think the desired charge voltage. With a 4s2p configuration, two cells are always working to balance each other, but it can also mean that 1 cell can kill another. Without a balancing circuit in place, it would be completely possible to overcharge or discharge some of the cells past their limits. #2. Constant charging. The A123 cells are MUCH better than your standard lithium laptop or NiMH batteries when it comes to recharging and battery memory, but I worry that the standard motorcycle charging system will constantly be overcharging the batteries. Anything over 14.8 volts could be fatal, especially if the cells are not in balance. As far as the MOTY batteries, I am not totally digging the quick disconnect, because it leaves the positive cable flexible and able to potentially short out against something else. This could quickly drain the battery (as well as cause other damage of course), and could lead to a bad battery. We won't be able to track the lifespan of the batteries for some time, so that will bear watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terc Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Just thought I'd post up this video for everyone's benefit. Only thing I might do differently is I'd probably install the battery with foam pads on the left side of the bike to help move the weight of the battery towards the center of the bike. Yeah, the difference is tiny, but why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted September 22, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted September 22, 2011 Terc, keep an eye on cold starting when the weather starts turning cooler. Don't know how it will react, but my A123 cell MOTY battery had some trouble recently in the cool mornings. Of course that was on the RC51, with two giant pistons. Going to give the VFR a shot with the MOTY battery on the upcoming Catskills ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I love how small the MOTY is...and I also am curious about colder weather starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted September 22, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted September 22, 2011 Good AGM's dont leak , no way is a camara battery going to out perform a top line AGM in reliablity ever. I'm with you so far i have tried the Moty and Shorai. Moty got very hot and Shorai I lost a stator, granted the Moty mite have already damaged the stator but still you have to wonder. I check everything after removing the Moty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Good AGM's dont leak , no way is a camara battery going to out perform a top line AGM in reliablity ever. I'm with you so far i have tried the Moty and Shorai. Moty got very hot and Shorai I lost a stator, granted the Moty mite have already damaged the stator but still you have to wonder. I check everything after removing the Moty. I can't speak to how/if the MOTY or Shorai could damage a stator...I would be super surprised to learn it did however. Nothing the battery does itself should impact the stator...voltage doesn't flow backwards due to the diodes in the R/R. The batteries should be capable of accepting a very robust charge as well. These are NOT camera batteries. There is no camera on the market that uses a cell like the A123 or the Headway cells (that's what I used in mine). These are however the same batteries people use in electric vehicles. Also the A123 cells are used in Dewalts top of the line drills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Good AGM's dont leak , no way is a camara battery going to out perform a top line AGM in reliablity ever. I'm not concerned whether it does or doesnt out perform an AGM. I think it's an apples and oranges comparison. With the big push in green tech and electric cars coming on, I think these batterys have been validated enough to consider thier use. I think proof of that is the ramp up of a production plant. So I dont mind being an early adopter. Part of that goes with my automotive engineering background. For me, its the quick on/off the bike, grab in one hand, no charging over the winter, zero acid/fluid in the thing and no maintenence, that seals it for me. If I go by specs, my guess is 5 years on it. If it does that, its a success. I'm willing to try. Thats what you complained about in your original thread, and what you bought is unproven and expensive. Who does that? I must live in a different world LOL! People who are early adopters will buy something unproven and expensive. people who are late adopters wait for the market place to calm down and the bugs to be worked out...and generally the price to go lower. Early adopters buy the newest model of whatever they are interested in.....IPAD2, VFR1200, etc etc.... There is NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. While it may not be YOUR way of doing things, you can't tell someone else it is wrong. Without early adopters there would be NO CHANGE...someone has to take the plunge. It's a battery. It isn't a life choice or even terribly expensive. it isn't unproven technology...batteries have been around a pretty long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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