Hids - Anyone Done This Mod?

[blkrabit]

So I'm thinking of bringing on an aftermarket line of HID products at my stealership, and I'd like to know:

Have any VFRD-ers done this mod on their VFR or other bikes?

What did you pay for the mod?

How easy was it to install?

Are there any negative things to be aware of, i.e., melting headlight housings, etc.?

Thanks for the info!

[BartmanEH]

Thanks, vanion2. Interestingly that topic has opinions exactly the opposite to this thread - they praise HIDs and poo-poo's the Silver Stars (for reliability anyway). That's the challenge with forums - dozens of individual opinions!

I'd still like to hear what bulbs FotoMoto recommends.

[vanion2]

HID's are more reliable. They consume less electricity (after the initial surge from start up which needs beefy wiring for that alone) and they tend to last longer as well. But they are only truly effective with the lens configuration. Not the reflectors that our bikes come with.

And if you read the full report they only "poo poo" the bulbs with the blue tinting labeled as "hyper white" because they have to consume more power to produce the same effective lumen as the clear bulbs. This shortens the life of the hyper whites for less effective lighting. The Osram Silver Stars are highly recommended as are several other brands in that article for clear bulbs.

[BartmanEH]

I think the difference is that your referring to the article in the first post whereas I'm referring to all the later posts in the thread. Several members do poo-poo the Silver Stars:

With the Silverstars running around $40+ a pair and not lasting as long as regular bulbs....

I tried Sylvania Silver Stars in my GS500 because the bulb in the headlamp when I got the bike put out a somewhat weak and very yellowed light. I had poor luck with them. First one died within a week; first the low side then the high. Replaced under store return warranty with another Silver Star, same thing happened in about the same time.

I liked the light they cast but I didn't like the rapid death they seemed to experience. I went to my "regular" stealership and picked up a bulb out of their Tucker Rocky catalog. Paid about 1/2 as much as what the Silver Star cost me in the first place and it lasted for the next six months, when I sold the bike. My experience with these bulbs seems very out of the norm, but I won't try them again. All bulbs used were the same labeled wattage.

I'm gonna read the article in the first post now as I haven't had a chance up 'til now.

[Peto]

My silverstars are 2 years old and are abused by using the double fire mod I described above. I have yet to replace them. I do carry a spare pair in my bike (along with tail and signal bulbs) just in case.

btw, the silverstars in my truck are like 4 years old and none, not the fogs, high beams, nor 4 low beam lights (8 total) have blown yet.

YMMV

EDIT: My silverstars are Osram

[vanion2]

I have the Sylvania Silverstars in my Corolla and I usually lose at least 1 every 8-12 months. I even have spares but after reading the article on lighting I am going to invest in the Osram version next. Price is similar but it seems they are better priced over the pond so they may take a while to get here.

[Tightwad]

I have never felt so missed before. :rolleyes:

First of all I cannot take credit for this mod. I believe I got the idea from HS and his superbright post (which disappeared btw). Well, you all have different bikes so the options you have and the way you connect them is different. On 5th gens with H4 bulbs it is easy. You want the low beams always on. You want to be able to cycle the high beams on when you need extra light. The stock condition is to switch between low beams or high beams. The idea of the mod is to keep the low beam headlight relay's signal wire hot when the high beams are flipped on (and the high beams relay's signal wire becomes hot). How to do this? Easy, use a bridge wire to connect the signal wires from the two relays (blue to white on 99 5th). However, any of you savy electrical guys out there will realise that doing this will cause both high/low beams to be on no matter what position the hi/lo switch is in. You must prevent electricity from going through that jumper wire towards the high beam relay, but allow the electricity to go from high beam relay (blue) to the low beam relay signal wire (white). How do you do this? Easy, install a one-way electrical gate or diode. Pick up a small one at radio shack. You can also run an inline switch on this jumper wire so that you can disable this mod, I believe HS did this, I chose not too.

4th gens should be the same as above, but you need to use the wiring diagram in the service manual to see which wires to short with a diode (probably the ones coming from the hi/low switch).

On the 6th gens you have 4 bulbs. The low beams are H4s (assumption), so you can "double fire" those on the high beam setting. I don't know how they are wired, but I bet the 3rd prong on the H4 bulb is not used and in which case you can just add a relay to power that prong, and use the high beam signal wire from the high beam relay to power the signal wire of your new relay. Presto 6 filaments lit on high beam settingm, while low beams are normal. Darth Bling drew something up here using instead a 5 pole relay: http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.p...ights+filaments The mod on the 6th gen will produce a lot of light, but a big draw on your electrical system. If you run accessories (especially heated clothing) be very mindful!

I am putting together a kit to allow these options for 6th gen owners. Currently it deactivates the low beam and activates the high beam on the lower bulb. It can also be done for 3 bulbs on....no need for another relay, just split the high beam output to the second bulb. As always my goal is a kit that requires little to no wire cutting/splicing etc, and contains all you need to do the job (relay, connectors, etc).

As soon as I can get the nose of my bike back off i will finish it, I got the connectors to go in the OEM housing already.

Joshua

[BartmanEH]

Sounds interesting, Joshua. Please keep us posted on your progress. I hear it's quite the job to take the nose fairing apart so I can understand the delay. How do you go about getting the OEM connectors? I assume you mean the ones that mate with the harness etc.?

[FotoMoto]

Thanks, vanion2. Interestingly that topic has opinions exactly the opposite to this thread - they praise HIDs and poo-poo's the Silver Stars (for reliability anyway). That's the challenge with forums - dozens of individual opinions!

I'd still like to hear what bulbs FotoMoto recommends.

Hey I like the silverstars too and have only lost one to an overcharging r/r. With the 6gen you can do better by leaving the low beams stock (or silverstars) and go with 80watt PIAA highbeams. Don't get greedy and use 100w as the wiring really isn't up to it but maybe tightwad's harness can.

The problem I see with HID mods isn't with the technology, it's the backwards application. To do it right, you need an entire assembly, not just a bulb and ballast thrown into a stock headlight. Also, most of the mods I've seen are for low beam only. I also see a lot of used sets for sale on forums. Maybe it's just a coincidence with the slow economy or maybe they ain't so great...... :rolleyes:

[Luvmyvfr]

Thanks, vanion2. Interestingly that topic has opinions exactly the opposite to this thread - they praise HIDs and poo-poo's the Silver Stars (for reliability anyway). That's the challenge with forums - dozens of individual opinions!

I'd still like to hear what bulbs FotoMoto recommends.

Hey I like the silverstars too and have only lost one to an overcharging r/r. With the 6gen you can do better by leaving the low beams stock (or silverstars) and go with 80watt PIAA highbeams. Don't get greedy and use 100w as the wiring really isn't up to it but maybe tightwad's harness can.

The problem I see with HID mods isn't with the technology, it's the backwards application. To do it right, you need an entire assembly, not just a bulb and ballast thrown into a stock headlight. Also, most of the mods I've seen are for low beam only. I also see a lot of used sets for sale on forums. Maybe it's just a coincidence with the slow economy or maybe they ain't so great...... :dry:

For what it's worth, I didn't seem to have any electrical problems with my 04 until I had installed the 85 watt garbage bulbs off of fleabay...they were much brighter...but not worth it in the long run.

I've kept my low beam set up intact, but added HID's to the highs....I'm not having any problems with beam focus....just road sign reflection :cool: Then when I turn them off, it feels like i've turned all the lights off for a second :fing02:

I Love them....they're still not as good as my BMW's which turn through a corner, aim up during heavy braking and down with acceleration, always keeping the light where you are going!

WHEN are they going to do this with motor bikes....or do BMW bikes do that already??

[spotthedogg]

I have a set of ApexCone H4's in my '03. I have had no issues yet. I also have the same kit in my Protege5, very bright.

http://www.xenonexpert.com/ddm_kit.html

[JZH]

I have a set of ApexCone H4's in my '03. I have had no issues yet. I also have the same kit in my Protege5, very bright.

No doubt they are very bright, but that's not the problem. Headlights are not designed to throw out the most possible light in all directions, but to put all of the avaialable light where it does the most good. Daniel Stern had a very good explanation of this on his Web site:

It's tricky to judge headlamp beam performance without a lot of knowledge, a lot of training and a lot of special equipment, because subjective perceptions are very misleading. Having a lot of strong light in the foreground, that is on the road close to the car and out to the sides, is very comforting and reliably produces a strong impression of "good headlights". The problem is that not only is foreground lighting of decidedly secondary importance when travelling much above 30 mph, but having a very strong pool of light close to the car causes your pupils to close down, worsening your distance vision...all the while giving you this false sense of security. This is to say nothing of the massive amounts of glare to other road users and backdazzle to you, the driver, that results from these "retrofits".

I object to his mis-use of the term "retrofit", by the way, but apart from that his point is that if a headlight has been carefully designed to distribute the available light in a particular way, doubling the available light will not only brighten up the parts that were not so bright before, but also the ones that were already as bright as they should have been. Massive foreground lighting is actually worse than less...

Another issue with HID conversion kits specific to motorcycles, though, is that you really need to install a headlight switch or you'll kill your HID capsules. HID capsules don't like being switched on and off quickly, and this shortens their life considerably. But most US-spec (and 2005-on ROW-spec) Hondas have always-on headlight circuits, which cut the headlights when the starter button is pushed. So, key on=HIDs on; starter button pressed=HIDs off; starter button released=HIDs on again, each and every time you start your bike. I'll be fitting a Euro-spec headlight switch on mine (as I have done on my other US-spec bikes).

Ciao,

[V4 Rosso]

the hid arc is not in the same place as a standard halogen filiment.

Hmmm, will have to look into that. Maybe there is some room for improvement.

I checked the HID against the drawings of a standard H4 bulb (All automotive filament bulbs are described in ECE Regulation 37) and found the position of the arc to be roughly 3mm too close to the focus of the reflector. After modifying the H4 adapter ring in order to get the arc a bit more forward as close to spec as possible, the light pattern has impoved quite a bit. When put in front of a professional headlamp aligner it also showed that the light pattern had a nice sharp cut-off. It performed even better than the same (unmodified) HID bulbs in a clear lens 5th gen reflector headlamp. I've checked another brand H4 HID that came out of a friends bike and that one had the arc close to 5mm backwards from where it should be.

The problem with the high output of the HID is that every defect is much more noticeable than with standard halogen bulbs. As an example here are the halogen bulbs I removed from my headlamp. It is quite clear from the pic that it is way out of spec. Still I never got a signal from oncoming drivers that they were blinded by my headlamps. Also I did not notice a lot of glare coming from the headlights, I just felt the lighting was very poor.

[AnikMankar]

My silverstars are 2 years old and are abused by using the double fire mod I described above. I have yet to replace them. I do carry a spare pair in my bike (along with tail and signal bulbs) just in case.

btw, the silverstars in my truck are like 4 years old and none, not the fogs, high beams, nor 4 low beam lights (8 total) have blown yet.

YMMV

EDIT: My silverstars are Osram

check this out. http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=50499

its pretty easy to fit. its longer lasting, hardly fuse, consume less power hence less strain on the battery.