Guest Pete McCrary Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I've finally decided to to do my '98 headers on my 6G with Tech Line's 2000°F "Black Satin" ceramic coating. I'm just curious - Jet Hot claims they coat the headers inside and out when you send your headers to them. How can they coat the inside of the headers without dipping them? If you spray them (even if they were using some sort of "charged particle" coating like powder coating) you're still only going to get a couple of inches of coating down into the inside of the pipes. How do they make that claim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 The same way they can claim that their coating lasts forever, when it actually rusts through in just a few months... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wera803 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 It’s an ancient Chinese secret. :huh: I called them once and asked a few questions. They wouldn't tell exactly how it's done. I think they dip them to clean, but then cork the ends of the pipes and put some sort of vacuum on it and draw the ceramic coating inside. Of course there isn't an easy (or even viable) way to tell if it was done throughout the whole system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I'm also interested in doing this, but on a 6th gen. Any differences for stainless headers? 6th gens have stainless right? Sorry, mild thread hijack :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JamieDaugherty Posted January 12, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted January 12, 2009 I've finally decided to to do my '98 headers on my 6G with Tech Line's 2000°F "Black Satin" ceramic coating.I'm just curious - Jet Hot claims they coat the headers inside and out when you send your headers to them. How can they coat the inside of the headers without dipping them? If you spray them (even if they were using some sort of "charged particle" coating like powder coating) you're still only going to get a couple of inches of coating down into the inside of the pipes. How do they make that claim? I think they dip them, just as you said. I'm not sure about that though, that's just what I've always thought. The same way they can claim that their coating lasts forever, when it actually rusts through in just a few months... Really? Have you had this experience? That would be a bummer because I was planning to ceramic coat a set that I have for just that purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Really? Have you had this experience? That would be a bummer because I was planning to ceramic coat a set that I have for just that purpose. I know a member here in NY, FastRC46(Chris), who's had his done - and then redone - and both times it rusted through in a matter of months(over the course of one season!). He hadn't put a million miles on them or run in bad weather either. I know he's posted on it before, you might try PM'ing him, I think he has pics in his gallery too. From his gallery - of the 2nd time around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Not real impressive. I think it's probably like 99.9% of the rest of the stuff in the world, it all gets down to a matter of time, prep, and giving a damn about whether or not it's done right. Which probably explains why I've been remodeling a house my wife and I bought for 2 years and I'm still a year away from finishing. My guess from the above pic is that the headers weren't cleaned properly both before and after sandblasting and/or weren't sandblasted thoroughly. Tech Line (which is what I'm going to use) is adamant about surface preparation if you want a good job. I think someone else in a similar post pointed out that if you don't clean a surface prior to sandblasting that the sandblasting will just drive the surface oils deeper into the metal. Plus you have to wonder how clean Jet Hot's blasting material is. That stuff does have to be changed after a while. The pursuit of perfection can be a lonely road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 It’s an ancient Chinese secret. :huh: I called them once and asked a few questions. They wouldn't tell exactly how it's done. I think they dip them to clean, but then cork the ends of the pipes and put some sort of vacuum on it and draw the ceramic coating inside. Of course there isn't an easy (or even viable) way to tell if it was done throughout the whole system. Sure there is. It's one of those little TV cameras with a fiber optic line on it. I can't remember exactly the name of it but I bought one at Home Depot for $99.99. I think Rigid makes it. I was playing with one at Home Depot one evening and I stuck it down in my pants to "look around". They pretty well suggested that I purchase it after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted January 12, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted January 12, 2009 It’s an ancient Chinese secret. :huh: I called them once and asked a few questions. They wouldn't tell exactly how it's done. I think they dip them to clean, but then cork the ends of the pipes and put some sort of vacuum on it and draw the ceramic coating inside. Of course there isn't an easy (or even viable) way to tell if it was done throughout the whole system. I was playing with one at Home Depot one evening and I stuck it down in my pants to "look around". They pretty well suggested that I purchase it after that. Even after you couldnot find anything? :blink: Man that is tough!!! :dry: :laugh: :biggrin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 It’s an ancient Chinese secret. :huh: I called them once and asked a few questions. They wouldn't tell exactly how it's done. I think they dip them to clean, but then cork the ends of the pipes and put some sort of vacuum on it and draw the ceramic coating inside. Of course there isn't an easy (or even viable) way to tell if it was done throughout the whole system. Sure there is. It's one of those little TV cameras with a fiber optic line on it. I can't remember exactly the name of it but I bought one at Home Depot for $99.99. I think Rigid makes it. I was playing with one at Home Depot one evening and I stuck it down in my pants to "look around". They pretty well suggested that I purchase it after that. Not really on topic, but snorting Mt. Dew out your nose at work has the following side effects: Your co-workers WILL look at you funny Your sinuses WILL feel different Your eyes WILL water…a LOT Your boss WILL know you aren’t working on that TPS report Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Not real impressive. I think it's probably like 99.9% of the rest of the stuff in the world, it all gets down to a matter of time, prep, and giving a damn about whether or not it's done right. Which probably explains why I've been remodeling a house my wife and I bought for 2 years and I'm still a year away from finishing.My guess from the above pic is that the headers weren't cleaned properly both before and after sandblasting and/or weren't sandblasted thoroughly. Tech Line (which is what I'm going to use) is adamant about surface preparation if you want a good job. I think someone else in a similar post pointed out that if you don't clean a surface prior to sandblasting that the sandblasting will just drive the surface oils deeper into the metal. Plus you have to wonder how clean Jet Hot's blasting material is. That stuff does have to be changed after a while. The pursuit of perfection can be a lonely road. Yes, when dealing with high performance coatings, no less high temperature coatings, you need to treat the part like your in a lab, anything can come back and bite you with that kind of coating. I would ask if you have a sling psychrometer and a steel temp gauge, but I am guessing that would be a no. And in these kind of coating systems the blasting media should NEVER be reused. Things as small as exhaust from automobiles, dirty rain, near by plants (chemicals from plant exhaust) or something as simple as sea blast that can cause salt contamination, anyone who has lived within a few miles of the coast have probably seen this first hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 It’s an ancient Chinese secret. :huh: I called them once and asked a few questions. They wouldn't tell exactly how it's done. I think they dip them to clean, but then cork the ends of the pipes and put some sort of vacuum on it and draw the ceramic coating inside. Of course there isn't an easy (or even viable) way to tell if it was done throughout the whole system. I was playing with one at Home Depot one evening and I stuck it down in my pants to "look around". They pretty well suggested that I purchase it after that. Even after you couldnot find anything? :blink: Man that is tough!!! :dry: :laugh: :biggrin: It was interesting to view things from that angle/perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I sandblasted my own headers at work before I took them to the shop for Jet-Hot coating. I spent hours on them getting them right down to white metal everywhere. So far, the costing is holding up perfectly well. They're a bit dirty, and don't clean up 100% new, but they don't have rust on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Not real impressive. I think it's probably like 99.9% of the rest of the stuff in the world, it all gets down to a matter of time, prep, and giving a damn about whether or not it's done right. Which probably explains why I've been remodeling a house my wife and I bought for 2 years and I'm still a year away from finishing.My guess from the above pic is that the headers weren't cleaned properly both before and after sandblasting and/or weren't sandblasted thoroughly. Tech Line (which is what I'm going to use) is adamant about surface preparation if you want a good job. I think someone else in a similar post pointed out that if you don't clean a surface prior to sandblasting that the sandblasting will just drive the surface oils deeper into the metal. Plus you have to wonder how clean Jet Hot's blasting material is. That stuff does have to be changed after a while. The pursuit of perfection can be a lonely road. Yes, when dealing with high performance coatings, no less high temperature coatings, you need to treat the part like your in a lab, anything can come back and bite you with that kind of coating. I would ask if you have a sling psychrometer and a steel temp gauge, but I am guessing that would be a no. And in these kind of coating systems the blasting media should NEVER be reused. Things as small as exhaust from automobiles, dirty rain, near by plants (chemicals from plant exhaust) or something as simple as sea blast that can cause salt contamination, anyone who has lived within a few miles of the coast have probably seen this first hand. BFI: No, I don't own either a sling psychrometer or a steel temp gauge but I do own a tiny little TV camera that I can view my private parts with while being dressed. You make a great point about using new, clean blasting material. I've seen too many shops use the same sandblast cabinet to clean a greasy Toyota cylinder head with as they do to strip parts to be painted. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I sandblasted my own headers at work before I took them to the shop for Jet-Hot coating. I spent hours on them getting them right down to white metal everywhere. So far, the costing is holding up perfectly well. They're a bit dirty, and don't clean up 100% new, but they don't have rust on them. That's the kind of finished product I want (except in Satin Black). I think you went about it the right way. You made sure they were clean and blasted properly before you sent them out for coating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I also blasted down inside the pipes as much as possible through every opening. Link to more coating pics: http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a280/vee...nter%20project/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Maybe coatings are just not the way to go. Just save up your pennies and invest in a Motad stainless steel header package and be done with all the worries and hassle with ceramic coatings and VHT paint. Why Honda skimped on the header material in the first place was stupid. Even the lowly Hawk GT had stainless headers, if only up to the expansion "boom box" but SS at the hottest parts of the manifold where you will 100% sure, have corrosion with mild steel headers none the less. JMOs Beck 95 VFR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Maybe coatings are just not the way to go. Just save up your pennies and invest in a Motad stainless steel header package and be done with all the worries and hassle with ceramic coatings and VHT paint.Why Honda skimped on the header material in the first place was stupid. Even the lowly Hawk GT had stainless headers, if only up to the expansion "boom box" but SS at the hottest parts of the manifold where you will 100% sure, have corrosion with mild steel headers none the less. JMOs Beck 95 VFR Beck: With the economy the way it is right now, savings are kinda tough. One thing I've always wondered about with Honda (and they did this on both my VFR and ST1300, both of which have stainless steel exhaust systems) is that they use uncoated 8 mm bolts that rust up in about a week on the exhaust clamps. Half the time you break them when you go to remove them they're so rusted. To the best of my knowledge, the stainless steel exhaust is not something Honda (or any other manufacturer) did voluntarily. I think the Clean Air Act or some amendment to it basically states that the exhaust system must last the life of the vehicle now days. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I sandblasted my own headers at work before I took them to the shop for Jet-Hot coating. I spent hours on them getting them right down to white metal everywhere. So far, the costing is holding up perfectly well. They're a bit dirty, and don't clean up 100% new, but they don't have rust on them. Best way to go about it, just like having a car painted, if you don't want it to peel, prep it your self first before taking it to the shop. Not real impressive. I think it's probably like 99.9% of the rest of the stuff in the world, it all gets down to a matter of time, prep, and giving a damn about whether or not it's done right. Which probably explains why I've been remodeling a house my wife and I bought for 2 years and I'm still a year away from finishing.My guess from the above pic is that the headers weren't cleaned properly both before and after sandblasting and/or weren't sandblasted thoroughly. Tech Line (which is what I'm going to use) is adamant about surface preparation if you want a good job. I think someone else in a similar post pointed out that if you don't clean a surface prior to sandblasting that the sandblasting will just drive the surface oils deeper into the metal. Plus you have to wonder how clean Jet Hot's blasting material is. That stuff does have to be changed after a while. The pursuit of perfection can be a lonely road. Yes, when dealing with high performance coatings, no less high temperature coatings, you need to treat the part like your in a lab, anything can come back and bite you with that kind of coating. I would ask if you have a sling psychrometer and a steel temp gauge, but I am guessing that would be a no. And in these kind of coating systems the blasting media should NEVER be reused. Things as small as exhaust from automobiles, dirty rain, near by plants (chemicals from plant exhaust) or something as simple as sea blast that can cause salt contamination, anyone who has lived within a few miles of the coast have probably seen this first hand. BFI: No, I don't own either a sling psychrometer or a steel temp gauge but I do own a tiny little TV camera that I can view my private parts with while being dressed. You make a great point about using new, clean blasting material. I've seen too many shops use the same sandblast cabinet to clean a greasy Toyota cylinder head with as they do to strip parts to be painted. Pete Well, check local dew point if nothing else, the steel temp should be 5 degrees above dew point and rising for coating. Do a blot test, that is where you test the air source for oil/water, just a simple (clean) white cotton cloth will work, Blow the air onto the cloth for about 30sec. and check to see if its wet or has oil spots, if it does I would use another air source. What your looking for here is a NACE No. 1 or SSPC SP5 standard, also known as "White Metal Blast Cleaning". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyA Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I had Jet Hot do the header on my RC51 about 5 years ago. When I traded the RC for the VFR this past summer, the header still looked like new. The header is made of stainless. I'm planning on doing this on the VFR too. I had Jet Hot do my headers on my 4x4 And they still look good too when I traded that in too. I think the biggest thing in getting stuff coated is the time of year you send it in. Just before the racing season starts would be bad. Mad rush to get it out the door to the racers. Here's before and after pic's of the RC header. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 BFI: Great advice. I just bought me an in-line air drier for this specific purpose. If my VFR headers work out OK I plan on doing my ST1300 headers also. I'm going to do the ST headers in "Titanium" color. Don't know if you're familiar with ST's, but they suffer from major heat issues. Practically unrideable in Georgia summers if you're wearing all your gear. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 BFI:Great advice. I just bought me an in-line air drier for this specific purpose. If my VFR headers work out OK I plan on doing my ST1300 headers also. I'm going to do the ST headers in "Titanium" color. Don't know if you're familiar with ST's, but they suffer from major heat issues. Practically unrideable in Georgia summers if you're wearing all your gear. Pete Welcome, Also forgot to say you can use some good old white printer paper for the test as well, you can buy blot test kits for pretty cheap at most auto paint supply stores, but often have to ask for them because it's not something allot of places keep on the shelf's. Even with the drier, do the test anyway, I have seen more than my fair share of systems with not only moisture separators but oil separators and traps that still didn't pass the blot test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 BFI:Great advice. I just bought me an in-line air drier for this specific purpose. If my VFR headers work out OK I plan on doing my ST1300 headers also. I'm going to do the ST headers in "Titanium" color. Don't know if you're familiar with ST's, but they suffer from major heat issues. Practically unrideable in Georgia summers if you're wearing all your gear. Pete Welcome, Also forgot to say you can use some good old white printer paper for the test as well, you can buy blot test kits for pretty cheap at most auto paint supply stores, but often have to ask for them because it's not something allot of places keep on the shelf's. Even with the drier, do the test anyway, I have seen more than my fair share of systems with not only moisture separators but oil separators and traps that still didn't pass the blot test. And it goes without saying to do a thorough tank draining of the compressor before starting any of this project that involves compressed air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JamieDaugherty Posted January 13, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted January 13, 2009 I think the biggest thing in getting stuff coated is the time of year you send it in. Just before the racing season starts would be bad. Mad rush to get it out the door to the racers. So, the spring and early summer are bad times. What time of the year is the best, do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 The dead of winter. In the fall, people also do stuff like this getting ready for winter projects. So, I guess, send them now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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