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Gear change issues


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Any ideas why my gear lever has started to feel clicky (best way I can explain it) when I change gears? I have had the bike from new, now has a mere 47,600km on the clock. Have had no other issues. Always found the gear box to be very smooth. It has also started to stay in the current gear when I try to change up a gear, although this doesn’t happen often. Downshifting is smooth and once in gear feels perfectly fine. I don’t have a quick shifter, oil is only a few thousand kilometers old. Clutch has a few millimeters of slack before engaging.

Any ideas guys and girls and gender neutrals. 

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1 hour ago, Philois1984 said:

Any ideas why my gear lever has started to feel clicky (best way I can explain it) when I change gears? I have had the bike from new, now has a mere 47,600km on the clock. Have had no other issues. Always found the gear box to be very smooth. It has also started to stay in the current gear when I try to change up a gear, although this doesn’t happen often. Downshifting is smooth and once in gear feels perfectly fine. I don’t have a quick shifter, oil is only a few thousand kilometers old. Clutch has a few millimeters of slack before engaging.

Any ideas guys and girls and gender neutrals. 

Hi Phil.

Sorry to hear of your gear shift issues. I'm up to 98,500k's and the gears are as smooth as the day I bought it. I wonder if the recent service, and the oil they used is quite different to what was in it. Oil viscosity, semi or full synthetic etc can have a big effect on gear shift smoothness. I'm sure there is nothing you've done, or an issue with the bike to have caused this.

As for your clutch, when was the last time the clutch fluid was flushed/bled? A good flush and new fluid might be the answer to both issues!

 

For info I change my brake and clutch fluid approximately every 12 months, it's an easy job on a 8gen.

P.s. Be nice to be in warm Townsville!

Cheers.

Grum.:beer:

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Thanks Grum, I will try a different oil and flush the brake fluid, hopefully that will be all it is. If that doesn’t help then I will have to spend some money and let the experts? have a look at it (in case of confusion it is the VFR I’m having trouble with)

Hope you are keeping well and the weather isn’t so cold you don’t want to get the bike out.

 

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30 minutes ago, Philois1984 said:

Thanks Grum, I will try a different oil and flush the brake fluid, hopefully that will be all it is. If that doesn’t help then I will have to spend some money and let the experts? have a look at it (in case of confusion it is the VFR I’m having trouble with)

Hope you are keeping well and the weather isn’t so cold you don’t want to get the bike out.

 

Hi Phil.

Just for info, my bike and gearbox seems to be very happy using Castrol Power1 Semi Synthetic 10W-40 oil. I've used this oil since the day I bought it along with previous 6gens.

Flush both Clutch and Brake!

Attached photo on Tuesday 28/5 in North Eastern Vic. Mornings got down to 1degC then warmed to beautiful late Autumn days.

20240528_111323.jpg

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I would suggest the most likely cause would be a little air in the clutch line or the clutch slave getting a bit sticky. A flush would be the first step but actually pulling the slave off the bike and disassembling and cleaning fully is not a big job as long as you are patient when you refill and bleed the system. The clutch pushrod can get a bit stcky as well, and can be fully extracted for a clean and polish and a bit of grease. 

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I would be changing the clutch fluid.  

 

On another note do you clutch up or just roll off and clutchless change? 

If you do both does it feel clicky on each?   

Where is most of your riding done open road or town/city?

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Nearly all the riding I do on the VFR is open road riding. I never do clutchless gear changes. I’ll do the oil change and brake and clutch fluid flush and see what improvements if any I get.

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Chain tension?

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4 hours ago, Thumbs said:

Chain tension?

 No chain tension is fine.

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22 hours ago, Philois1984 said:

Nearly all the riding I do on the VFR is open road riding. I never do clutchless gear changes. I’ll do the oil change and brake and clutch fluid flush and see what improvements if any I get.

Find a straight and do a few clutchless upchanges.  They are actually easier on the box than clutched.

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So!, I have changed the clutch fluid ( old fluid looked perfectly fine though, no gunk on the bottom of the reservoir) I changed the oil and filter , went back to 10W-40 and back to Motul. Went for a 40 km ride, there was definitely some improvement but still not as I know it should be. Had one occasion when it didn’t want to change up from second to third, only did this once but I had to pull over and start from first, after which it was fine changing up. The gears just feel sloppy, going from 1st to neutral there is absolutely NO resistance, the slightest touch and it’s in neutral (and I do mean slightest)

I went and spoke with the workshop manager at the Honda dealer again, he previously took it for test ride and said he couldn’t feel anything wrong with it, however I know I am not imagining this. His advice was as there was some improvement after the oil and filter change to keep riding it and give it more time to see if it improves further.

The kicker is I decided to book it in for further inspection anyway as I know they can be busy, figuring I can always cancel if it returns to normal (I personally don’t think this will be the case) The lady on the service desk asked me what year the bike was, I replied 2015, just made it she said, what do you mean I asked, we are not accepting bikes built before 2015 as we are too busy!!!! 
Am I just getting old or is this complete bullshit. There would have been some angry words if I had replied 2014 and they had refused to look at it, they are the only Honda dealer in Townsville, while I did not purchase my bike from them, if I had and they had refused to look at it I would be up shits creek. Not sure what Honda Australia would make of this? private business so not much they could do I guess. Has anyone else ever come across this? 
Anyway it is booked in for late August ( earliest space they had) so I will see what happens. Luckily I have two other bikes and I am going away for three weeks so it won’t be too much of an inconvenience.

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A late thought on your issue. Do you know if you tend to keep your foot applying a tiny bit of pressure to the gear change lever between gear changes? That can lead to wear on the selector mechanism and cause shift problems over time. In my case, a POs habit of doing that on my Suzuki led to 'soft' gear changes and eventually complete failure of a shift fork and 3 gear cogs 120 miles from home. The repair bill was £1700 with the engine out of the frame.

 

Hopefully that's not your case and it's no more than wear on thegear shift spindle mechanism, shift drum centre or stopper arm/stopper arm spring which can all be accessed behind the drive sprocket and water pump covers with the engine in the frame.     Either way, the problem you describe does not sound like it's going to improve as the new oil circulates but I could be wrong.

 

The response you got from the Honda dealer sounds completely arbitrary to me unless they don't want any more work than oil changes and the odd sensor replacement. Do you have an independent with a good reputation nearby?

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Thanks Presson , I have a habit of moving my foot back so only my toes are on the footrest between gear changes, I don’t believe I leave pressure on the gear lever at any time. I did have an excellent independent mechanic nearby but unfortunately due to his health he has retired. I still can’t fathom how a Honda dealer can refuse to service or repair a 2014 or earlier motorcycle . It seems the best approach is first in best dressed, maybe they need to hire one or two more mechanics.

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Many "new mechanics" can only work with electronics. Try getting carb work done at a dealer...good luck! 

 

My buddy at Ford has commented that the new kids don't want to get their hands dirty. 

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On 7/10/2024 at 8:02 AM, Philois1984 said:

So!, I have changed the clutch fluid ( old fluid looked perfectly fine though, no gunk on the bottom of the reservoir) I changed the oil and filter , went back to 10W-40 and back to Motul. Went for a 40 km ride, there was definitely some improvement but still not as I know it should be. Had one occasion when it didn’t want to change up from second to third, only did this once but I had to pull over and start from first, after which it was fine changing up. The gears just feel sloppy, going from 1st to neutral there is absolutely NO resistance, the slightest touch and it’s in neutral (and I do mean slightest)

I went and spoke with the workshop manager at the Honda dealer again, he previously took it for test ride and said he couldn’t feel anything wrong with it, however I know I am not imagining this. His advice was as there was some improvement after the oil and filter change to keep riding it and give it more time to see if it improves further.

The kicker is I decided to book it in for further inspection anyway as I know they can be busy, figuring I can always cancel if it returns to normal (I personally don’t think this will be the case) The lady on the service desk asked me what year the bike was, I replied 2015, just made it she said, what do you mean I asked, we are not accepting bikes built before 2015 as we are too busy!!!! 
Am I just getting old or is this complete bullshit. There would have been some angry words if I had replied 2014 and they had refused to look at it, they are the only Honda dealer in Townsville, while I did not purchase my bike from them, if I had and they had refused to look at it I would be up shits creek. Not sure what Honda Australia would make of this? private business so not much they could do I guess. Has anyone else ever come across this? 
Anyway it is booked in for late August ( earliest space they had) so I will see what happens. Luckily I have two other bikes and I am going away for three weeks so it won’t be too much of an inconvenience.

The correct oil for your bike is 10W 30   NOT 40.    Im struggling to understand why. What have you ridden previously,  You should also be able to go up the box with out even using the clutch. 

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Honda specify 10w30 for emission reasons (and  a very slight improvement in fuel economy as a consequence). I've been using 10w40 for several years now without any noticeable difference so I suggest that's a red- herring in this case.

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1 hour ago, Presson said:

Honda specify 10w30 for emission reasons (and  a very slight improvement in fuel economy as a consequence). I've been using 10w40 for several years now without any noticeable difference so I suggest that's a red- herring in this case.

 

Agree, have only ever used 10w40 (my 8gen and previous 6gens) after nearly 100,000k's with excellent fuel economy, no subjective negative effects!

 

The 40 weight better suits our generally high ambient summer temperatures and not a negative daytime temperature (degC.) to be seen in winter, and especially where Phil lives in Townsville, it's hot and tropical, ideal for a 40 weight.

 

It's interesting that the 6gen clearly defines the options of using either the 30 and 40, however as Fink correctly states, the 8gen only mentions using a 30 weight.

As always and especially with oil. YMMV.

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Thanks for all the input guy’s. I will let you know how things go and if the Honda dealer finds anything. I am planning on another ride this weekend and am hoping there is further improvement. At 65 years old I’m afraid that I’m a bit set in my ways as far as using the clutch goes. That said the use of the clutch is really just a slight pressure not all the way to the bar. The gear box has always been smooth with this method. I don’t recall Honda ever recommending not to use the clutch? I am aware some riders don’t though. I think if I decided I didn’t want to use the clutch then a quick shifter would be a better way to go in my opinion.

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Aside from my little KLX250, all of my bikes shift much smoother on Mobil 1 4T. I've tried dino oils and some other synthetics, but the difference is noticeable (to me). If you have other bikes, you can drain to reuse in those while you test. Even a mix of oils can highlight a variance. for instance, I bought a ton or Royal Purple oil and use it to make up the less than quart parts of my oil changes in the track bikes. 

 

Can't wait to hear what you find!

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