Member Contributer sfdownhill Posted December 30, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted December 30, 2016 Hello vfrd community. I am considering converting an RC51 SP2 front wheel for use on my gen 5. The eventual destination will be the SP2 wheel between VTR or F4i forks. I will be using RC51 SP2 front brake calipers and F4i [or 03-06 CBR600RR] front master cylinder. Does anyone know what the weight savings using the SP2 wheel will be? Will the rotor offset line up, ie can I bolt my stock gen 5 rotors to the SP2 wheel and use them w SP2 calipers on VTR or F4i forks? Do I need to consider custom axle spacers? I know I will have to source wheel bearings that fit the 20mm gen 5/VTR/F4i axle. Thanks for any input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epyon007 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 A stock SP2 front wheel with no rotors weighs about 10.5 pounds. That's all I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epyon007 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Here are a list of wheel weights for RC51's. If you going to do all this work, maybe you should go lighter. Also I think that Mohawk put a lighter front wheel on his 5th gen........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted December 30, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted December 30, 2016 Mohawk wheels are BST carbon fibre wheels. Trick stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epyon007 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Mmmm Carbon Fiber wheels. Did he replace both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer sfdownhill Posted December 30, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted December 30, 2016 Yessir, Mohawk's carbon BST's are the bee's knee's, but out of my price range. I'll look up the weight of a stock gen 5/6 wheel, or weigh mine w/o rotors, then compare it to 10.3 lbs for the SP2. Thanks for the feedback Epyon007. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Lighter front wheel makes a world of difference. It's only money . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zRoYz Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 I'm not going to enter into a flame war so if you read this it's solely my opinion if you don't agree that's fine, but you need to have ridden a VFR with lighter wheels to have an opinion. OP I would use your standard VFR wheel/rotors with the F4i/vtr forks as it will save allot of $$, swamping to the lighter RC51 wheel or even lighter front forged wheel the effects are so negligible on the VFR it is a total waste of time/money. My 6th gen was fitted with CBR1000RR Ohlins FGRT forks with modified RC51 front wheel, the RC51 wheel was later replaced with a OZ racing forged wheel which was much lighter. There were zero & I mean zero difference in performance with lighter front wheel on the VFR that I could notice. This is due to bikes overall weight & frame set up, in fact the heavier front wheel supplied better rider front end feel as far as I was concerned & I'm a front end feel rider. Yes there is a gain in power to weight & suspension with lighter unsprung weight, etc but what I'm saying is focusing on the VFR the gain is so unnoticeable the money to spend to achieve it is wasted. Others may feel differently but I felt fitting a lighter wheel front end was a total waste of time on my 6th gen. I however just sold my VFR because I purchased BMW S1000RR which I bought with forged lighter wheels & I do notice a major difference between it & the stock wheels same bike but that is a sports bike with totally different frame/geomatry that is based on major loading front end unlike the VFR which is very neutral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RC36Rider Posted December 30, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted December 30, 2016 11 hours ago, sfdownhill said: [...] can I bolt my stock gen 5 rotors to the SP2 wheel and use them w SP2 calipers on VTR or F4i forks? Nope. Different bolt circle / ID. SP2 is much larger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epyon007 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 I have yet to ride a bike with lightened wheels but knowing what I know about things I would tend to agree with Roy, with a caveat. If your not tracking or racing the bike I would think the weight advantage would be negligible. You won't be throwing the bike around and changing directions like would do on the track, on the streets. Maybe you could tell a difference on some back roads scratching. RC51 owners say that changing wheels makes a big difference and that is a heavy ass bike for its "arena". But again most of those people are using them for track days or racing. Perhaps more tangible gains would come from a full suspension upgrade, front and rear? Just a thought but keep us informed if you keep going I'd love to hear about the process. What is the intended use of your VFR? I'll see if I can convince Mohawk to come on down to NormalVFRsville and tell us what he experienced along with Roy's comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Mohawk Posted December 30, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted December 30, 2016 The stock VFR front wheel is roughly the same weight as the SP2 front at 11lb or 5Kg. a 1/2lb change will make no difference to feel, but like I was trying to achieve originally you get a 5 spoke to match your rear wheel :) The issues you will face are that the SP2 wheel is both wider at the hub (I believe, you need to check) & has a wider axle diameter as standard, plus the discs are 320 or 330mm & a different offset to the VFR's or CBR600 lowers you have. So you can machine the wheel or make spacers to fit the discs from the VFR or another Honda (I use CBR900RR for my RC45 front wheel with 3mm spacers to get the right offset). Originally I just drilled the VFR discs to suit the RC45 bolt pattern, plus the 3mm spacer. You may be able to use the SP2 discs, if you can get a set of caliper extention brackets to move the CBR calipers further from the axle, I know they used to be available to buy. You will need custom bearings to fit it on the CBR axle which IIRC is 20mm OD & the SP2 is 25 or 30mm OD, so will need to find a set of bearings with the correct OD for the wheel & an ID of 20mm for the CBR axle. You may have to get custom spacers made too. I was lucky the RC45 & VFR share the exact same front axle size & spacers :) If you do have to machine the wheel to fit in the forks, then remember you need to shortend the bearing spacer inside the wheel too ! Re the light weight wheels, for those that have not tried them they make NO real difference at low speeds, but once you up the pace, even on your favourite bit of grippy sweeping road you will notice, that you can brake later, the bike accelerates faster & best of all the effort required to turn in at speed, is so much lighter its like night & day. I have the triples lower 10mm & the rear jacked up 50mm on my adjustable length shock & have had it to a true 150mph with no loss of stability. As a point to note the BST RC45 front is 2.5Kg & the rear is 3Kg, both are half the VFR's stock wheel weight. With the front sliders & caliper changes, my unsprung front weight is 4.5Kg less than stock & the rear is 6.5Kg less, these are significant numbers ! Try moving a 5Kg weight up & down rapidly with your arms outstrectched to get an idea of the forces involved :) As always YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 The Carrozzeria front wheel (Honda F4i) weighs 7.8 lbs. according to the CZ website. I also replaced the stock rotors with Galfer Wave rotors mainly because the VFR rotors won't fit the F4i wheel. And the Galfers are cool. Maybe I am fooling myself, but I noticed a difference on my favorite roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer sfdownhill Posted December 30, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted December 30, 2016 Excellent feedback - thanks everyone! I'm learning to accept quality input from experienced guys like you, Roy, Epyon007, Mohawk, Rc36Rider, and Alaskan. Clearly there are a significant number of fitment hurdles with the RC51 wheel, and the performance gain would be negligible. I'll stick with the stock gen 5 front wheel and rotors. Jamie Daugherty gave me the same advice about front forks for delinking my brakes. In a nutshell, he said 43mm forks would possibly provide a slight advantage with racing brake pads and slick tires piloted by an expert on the track. For the rest of us, 41mm forks are more than adequate. Cheers all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 34 minutes ago, sfdownhill said: Excellent feedback - thanks everyone! I'm learning to accept quality input from experienced guys like you, Roy, Epyon007, Mohawk, Rc36Rider, and Alaskan. Clearly there are a significant number of fitment hurdles with the RC51 wheel, and the performance gain would be negligible. I'll stick with the stock gen 5 front wheel and rotors. Jamie Daugherty gave me the same advice about front forks for delinking my brakes. In a nutshell, he said 43mm forks would possibly provide a slight advantage with racing brake pads and slick tires piloted by an expert on the track. For the rest of us, 41mm forks are more than adequate. Cheers all. Don't put me in the same category as those guys. I'm an amateur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epyon007 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Much appreciate the compliments. I study everything I can and talk to as many experts as possible so I try to be as helpful as I can. I have come to the realization that I don't really need a lot of the race stuff like radial brakes and upside down forks to have fun on the street. Hell I can't ride my RC51 fast enough that changing to Radial mount brakes would likely do me any good so what the hell do I need it to commute on? I also see guys at the track with SV650's running fantastic times, there is nothing supersport about a SV650. At the same time I know how much fun it is to play with parts and modify! Did you look into doing the full boat DMr suspension upgrade? I think I'm going to do that myself and pretty much call it good. With all that being said I am FAR from the be all end all on these topics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer sfdownhill Posted December 31, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted December 31, 2016 Yep - Jamie is sending a set of forks and F4i shock to me to install on my friend's gen 6. I've learned a lot and enjoyed every interaction with Dr. Daugherty. On Tuesday I'm sending him two sets of forks - VTR that are straight, and F4i with slightly bent uppers. I'll choose which forks to turn DMr loose on when I find out which will be the least expensive to give the full treatment. As long as I'm packing stuff up to ship, I'll include a Penske shock found on ebay. Jamie did wonders for Duc2V4's 41mm forks and Penske shock and I've no desire to reinvent the wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 I'm a little biased, but the F4i forks perform very well with a little tuning. Excellent brakes too. The VFR wheel is a drop-in fit. I just did it (again) a few weeks ago on this naked '99 5th gen I'm building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer sfdownhill Posted December 31, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted December 31, 2016 Thanks Seb - yep, I'm leaning toward the F4i forks as you recommended. I have gen 6 handlebars and triples, along with an F4i axle, so my choice will be based on what Jamie finds inside the forks. He said he could source new uppers for the bent 43mm forks, but if the internals are trashed, I'll go with the VTR forks and pay a small performance penalty. That's a nice looking 99 - the tail section is tidy and on point thematically. That motorcycle is one of the lucky ones to have you working with it. I've got a little lift-envy over the ratchet-operated unit you've got under the pan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keef Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 I felt a massive difference putting carrozzerria s on my 1988 gsxr 711. It just held a line in the corner brilliantly. My 5th gen has a forged 1098s rear wheel and a cast 848 front wheel. Both are much, much lighter than stock wheels. It has helped to get my vfr down to around 185kgs. If you're doing light wheels, make them much much lighter. And seb, nice to see you post a pic on here. It's looking really, really nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted January 1, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted January 1, 2017 I bought some lightly bent 600F4i forks and had the uppers professionally straightened; US$40 per leg. They usually bend at the bottom triple so well clear of the sliding surface. Unless the forks are really trashed, I'm sure the damper cartridges and caps would be reusable and I would expect they will slip right into some 6G uppers with no modification. I did exactly that with VTR1000F bent forks and transferred the cartridges and caps to my 5G. Later on I used the same parts with VTR lowers and did the de-link with CBR600F4 brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Forbes Posted January 1, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted January 1, 2017 I'm a little biased, but the F4i forks perform very well with a little tuning. Excellent brakes too. The VFR wheel is a drop-in fit. I just did it (again) a few weeks ago on this naked '99 5th gen I'm building. This comment gives me great confidence in my luck at finding 4fi forks and brakes that are going on to my VF750.....they weren't a bad price too!Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epyon007 Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 23 hours ago, SEBSPEED said: I'm a little biased, but the F4i forks perform very well with a little tuning. Excellent brakes too. The VFR wheel is a drop-in fit. I just did it (again) a few weeks ago on this naked '99 5th gen I'm building. Seb what did you do to refinish those forks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 2 hours ago, Forbes said: This comment gives me great confidence in my luck at finding 4fi forks and brakes that are going on to my VF750.....they weren't a bad price too! Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk You'll have to get creative to get them to work well on your VF, they are a bit short for the job. Custom triples coupled with a handle conversion could get you what you need, as you can then drop the forks to the max and gain almost the whole difference in fork length back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 31 minutes ago, Epyon007 said: Seb what did you do to refinish those forks? Not a thing sir, factory finish on those CBR parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Forbes Posted January 1, 2017 Member Contributer Share Posted January 1, 2017 Thanks Seb,Yes they are about 80mm shorter. I wanted to drop the front a little, so was thinking the handle conversion which would put them where I want. May get rolling chassis soon(mock-up) so that will show where it will sit. Have managed to get the cbr600 swingarm in, so next align wheels...and chain...But look at the student telling the master....Haha.Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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