I need some guidance from the collective...

[SamW]

I like your point about anyone could do it on a BMW GS or KTM.  As far as a Guzzi goes, it has taken me a year to really get my 2001 right (low mileage bike at that). But the plus side of the Guzzi is the low weight, engine and tranny are low on the bike, and this makes for a very fine low speed crawler and lots of confidence.  They also have good suspensions, which you will need.  The here to Canada you will need comfort and wind protection (have you ever ridden through the plain states?).  Canada to the end will be mostly about tires and suspension.  I would plan on a tire change somewhere on the way up there.

 

Some sort of cruise or throttle lock is a need, not an option.

 

We all expect a lot of pictures!!!!

[CornerCarver]

This may be quirky enough for me.

 

 

[timmythecop]

if you want that, go with the simpler, better version, that is more dirt oriented. Less than half the cash too.

 

[timmythecop]

or go with the guy who started the whole thing

 

[BonusVFR]

12 hours ago, CornerCarver said:

Bonus I have read about 30 accounts of various transAlaskan rides and how they prepared (body, bike and gear) and what they would have done differently.  You have been there and I greatly value your thoughts (I think I read a ride report from that trip of your several years ago) but eventually I just have to do it.

 

My uncle has been planning this for about 4-5 years.  Several Hog riders have done it and he will too.

That being said, I would love love love an Africa Twin but it seems hardly necessary for an 11,000 mile trek when the AT will shine off the pavement and the HD will shine on it.

 

I think I can do this on damn near anybike available today.  So we will find out if I am capable or delusional.

Dunning-Kruger Effect is a distinct possibility. 

 The most important part of one's plan is to go!!!  We committed when we booked a ferry ride back on the Inland passage...best thing I ever did! You will never achieve plan perfection as there are too many variables and part of the fun is to just Wing it!  Every kind of bike in the world travels up to Alaska!  It is all good.  Even if they don't go down bikes take a beating though!

 

Think about tire management!  This was a common sight.  On the way up to Dawson City.

 

I remember this guy ..... he was "done" almost to Haines I think after coming from Florida.  He was on a tour competition of sorts.  Nobody with him and he was totally wired and exhausted....this shot was after a grueling gravel section of the main highway (maybe twenty miles again plus...but lots of these sections not just one).  Lizard was his name and on a brand new "mostly then" Harley.  The moral of the story is to stop when you need to....especially with the extra time you have available.

 

Also think about renting a POS KLR or Vstrom or something similar when you get to Fairbanks if you really want to ride the dirt.  We started "the top of the world" in the sun and then it turned in to a quagmire. Wow that looks like sun but most of the time it looked like this.

 

 

Or this on the way to Denali.  We camped in the rain that night again.  We used heated vests and grips every day.

 

More Sun and shrapnel.

 

Do it! The trip is a right of passage and not about corners ...CC!

[CornerCarver]

We are committed as I agreed to go with him and thought the summer of 2018 was the goal.  He was packaged out at his job last January and has been stepping up the planning.  We are now leaving South Carolina on Wednesday May 31st or Thursday June 1st.

 

The Moto Guzzi dealer in GA tells that the Stelvio is discontinued and the last one has probably been built already. No factory cruise available but aftermarket stuff works (so says he).

[ridered]

buy the Alaska (Africa) Twin in Seattle, take it up and back, then sell it when you get back to Seattle.  Stick with Big Red.  You know every town will have a dealer so you can get parts and service if needed.

 

Or get a Grom.  

 

http://lanesplitter.jalopnik.com/this-nutty-bastard-rode-a-honda-grom-from-portland-to-1625358412

 

[BonusVFR]

On ‎12‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 7:08 PM, CornerCarver said:

This little video has me thinking big red...

 

 

Just watched this.  That about sums it up. Captures the essence of the ride.  Actually watching this could cost me a lot of money as I want to go back more than ever and on an Africa Twin.  And gas is a problem but you can work around it.

 

Fresh Halibut and Alaskan Beer in Hyder on the BUS. It rained that night!

[KevCarver]

I just witnessed a Carver BMW group test ride, and I do believe the waters have muddied. I actually rode the bike he should take, '98 VFR 800!

I read somewhere the '17 Africa Twin will have an optional rear suplimental fuel tank. I still vote Big Red. 

As a side note, all three Carvers could have showed up at a BMW bike dealer in a separate M3s, but didn't. Opportunity missed...

[CornerCarver]

5 hours ago, KevCarver said:

I just witnessed a Carver BMW group test ride, and I do believe the waters have muddied. I actually rode the bike he should take, '98 VFR 800!

I read somewhere the '17 Africa Twin will have an optional rear suplimental fuel tank. I still vote Big Red. 

As a side note, all three Carvers could have showed up at a BMW bike dealer in a separate M3s, but didn't. Opportunity missed...

 

Muddied indeed. On paper the S1000XR BMW was what I was looking for, a little better Multistrada is what I saw it as with excellent cruise control and very highly rated BMW Dynamic ESA, a veritable alphabet soup of helpful rider aids. with 160 hp and in a recent head to head shoot out against the Multi it spanked it.

 

On paper.   Under my arse it felt by far the most flickable of the 3 BMWs we took out today as well as the 2 VFRs (5g and 6g) and the ST1300 that we headed over to the BMW dealership on.  The 17" front wheel made it seem the most sporty (which is what I was looking for - a tall sport bike good ergos and ) and the 150+ hp at the wheel allowed for 2nd and 3rd gear power wheelies over the undulations in the road that the dealer had us follow them around.  This sporty, flickable feeling made me want to ride it more like a tall sport bike and use proper body positioning. The S1000XR does not want you to do this though.  The seat pan is 'scooped" a bit for lack of a better term and the scoop curves as most backsides.  The problem occurs when you want to sneak a cheek off the saddle and move your center of gravity inward on a turn.  The corner of the seat does not cooperate and you get hung up or have to stand up a bit in the saddle to move out to proper body positioning.  I don't have any pretense of dragging a knee on the street on a Multi or 1000XR but it would be good to be able to get into a familiar position when the twisty bits arrive and tighter corners present themselves for carving. Although our test loop didn't include steady state cruising on a highway there was some vibrations especially in the bars between 4k and 6k rpm. 

 

Next up for me was the R1200 GS Adventure or Big Gertha as the salesperson called it.  I have previously mentioned that I think that bike is overkill for what I need to keep pace with (an Ultra Road Glide or whatever the correct nomenclature is for the new touring HD).  As a result I went into this test ride with a bias against the GS and more specifically the GSA as it seems to me like bringing an M1Abrams to the cabin for the fall deer hunting weekend - sure it'll get the job done but do I want to be that guy?!?! So I shifted from the S1000XR to Big Gertha and off we went.  Is the GSA heavy?  YES.  Is it possibly the best get on it and go anywhere you want bike I have ever thrown a leg over?  Also, yes.  It has gobs of torque and on our second lap of the little test course it also power wheelied over a couple of small rises in the road (perhaps Torque wheelie is more accurate).  I would need a bit of time to become familiar and proficient with everything that a pilot can alter from the saddle of a GSA but the heated grips and  comfortable seat are a treat and the Pro-gear shift assist just took a couple of unwanted upshifts before I stopped preloading my shifter foot and stopped using the clutch as well. Very comfy seat and super smooth bike. It is overkill to the max.

 

I was next on the standard R1200 GS with cast wheels and the smaller 5 1/2 gallon tank.  After initially thinking the 1000XR was going to 'fit" my needs and then being disappointed in the execution of the small items that I feel would be difficult to correct with aftermarket items (not sure a Sargent saddle will alleviate the corner in the butt issue) and then being head-shakingly impressed with the GS A I thought we were headed for a Goldilocks ending and the standard GS would be perfect for me - not too hot, not too cold, just right. 

 

It wasn't.  I prefer the large and in charge Big Gertha to the standard GS.  It felt more smooth, the optoins that are standard on the GS A can be added to a GS and I enjoy farkles as much as the next guy but the GS A package integration is right where you would expect a German product to be after 35 years of refining (defining?) the market. A bike that size shouldn't be this capable, but it is, never putting a wheel wrong or felt like I needed to get used to some shortcoming.  Only thing close to a nit to pick for me was that it has so much torque that I forgot momentarily that it is a boxer twin and bumped the rev limiter once just after climbing aboard.  I will have to adapt to a bike with a red line so low but as I left the dealer on the ST1300 I twisted its' tail up the on ramp and had to look down to see what was wrong...it felt well down on power.  Top tip, ride something slower than what you brought as your last bike before leaving the dealer.

In summary, after the BMW visit, if I select a bike from the propeller heads it will oddly enough be the bike that I LOL'ed about when the Hitler parody called it a tractor while pining for his beloved VFR.

 

Next stop is looking like Triumph for a ride on an Explorer.

[timmythecop]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2016-Honda-Other-/182391890476?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2a7767622c:g:0zwAAOSw2xRYSs3F&item=182391890476

[Sweeper]

9 hours ago, timmythecop said:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2016-Honda-Other-/182391890476?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2a7767622c:g:0zwAAOSw2xRYSs3F&item=182391890476

Its perfect!  Everything you wanted and a VFR.  Timmy wins. Game over.

[CornerCarver]

The VFR1200X has extremely intrusive traction control and has lost some 50hp in the migration from the 1200F.  If I go with a Honda it will be the Africa Twin.

The Triumph Explorer XCA is the current front runner.  Rode it today.  Compared to the BMW GS or GS A the Triumph is not a better all around bike.  I don't know when I will ever ride a better all around bike than the BMW GS.  If you want the best tool for this job then buy the GS.  Having the best tool for the job is great when we are talking about appliances or actual tools like drill press or shop vac or even a nice Vaughn hammer but I am passionate about motorcycles and the Triumph (while it seemed just "less" than a GS) seemed to be more passionate about the ride.

 

Objectively the only place the Triumph Explorer XCA is better than a GS would be in front end feedback/feel or general agility/flickability if you will and a standard heated seat (front and rear).  The BMW has a better feeling stock seat and would trounce the Explorer in any measured test off pavement but that sweet 1215cc Triple actually has some heart and wants to run and rev.

 

If you are playing a video game and the game has you riding from SC to Alaska and back the cheat code would give you a BMW GS A.  That is how Tall Carver (Stephen) described the BMW.  He said it would make the trip too easy.  Instead of taking candy from a baby he said you would be punching a 5 year old in the face and taking not just his candy but everything else.  Not cool.

 

Will ride a few more bikes on the list before making a decision but after the first quarter the leader is the Triumph Explorer XCA.

[Auspanglish]

I did not like the front end of the GS at all, too wishy washy and with blustery side winds it was all over the place.

The Explorer is much more solid and feels less of a whale.

Off road and on road, amongst my well travelled and avid bike riding buddies, those who ride the GS are soft in the middle in all aspects of life and not as capable as riders, those who swear by both the 1050 and the 1215 triples are much more hardcore, passionate, eat-drink-sleep, extremely capable demanding riders. They love their Triumphs and do insane amounts of miles on them. The others complain when there are stretches of gravel with potholes.

[Sweeper]

The GS has come to symbolize poser almost as much as a Harley. It is a nice mike though.

 

[KevCarver]

Lets fit an 8th Gen axle to a 5th (or 6th) Gen and mount up a Crosstourer 1200 rear spoked wheel! Find something for the front with a bit of extra travel and wire wheel. Then mount some flat bars in place of clipons.

[CornerCarver]

5 hours ago, KevCarver said:

Lets fit an 8th Gen axle to a 5th (or 6th) Gen and mount up a Crosstourer 1200 rear spoked wheel! Find something for the front with a bit of extra travel and wire wheel. Then mount some flat bars in place of clipons.

 

Ok, let's workshop it and see what we think will fit.  I like the idea of that smaller rear wheel from the 1200X with the 150 tire.

 

Not sure how much more travel we can get in the rear of a 5/6g but you almost have me convinced.  What long travel ADV style bike has 41 or 43 mm RSU forks?

[KevCarver]

16 hours ago, CornerCarver said:

I like the idea of that smaller rear wheel from the 1200X with the 150 tire.

 

Oh! I wasn't even paying attention to that. There was talk of the standard VFR1200 tire being too wide to fit an 800 swinger, so that solves one issue.

A quick Googling reveals the WeeStrom forks are 43mm uppers with 150mm (5.9") of travel. Only preload adjustable, but I'm sure someone has changed that by now. I'm seeing 4.25" of travel on the 6th Gen.

Front wheel is 19" and tubeless, with 310mm rotors.

[TheJay]

On 12/24/2016 at 10:10 PM, CornerCarver said:

 

Ok, let's workshop it and see what we think will fit.  I like the idea of that smaller rear wheel from the 1200X with the 150 tire.

 

Not sure how much more travel we can get in the rear of a 5/6g but you almost have me convinced.  What long travel ADV style bike has 41 or 43 mm RSU forks?

I like where this is heading. 

[BonusVFR]

On ‎12‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 8:29 PM, CornerCarver said:

The VFR1200X has extremely intrusive traction control and has lost some 50hp in the migration from the 1200F.  If I go with a Honda it will be the Africa Twin.

The Triumph Explorer XCA is the current front runner.  Rode it today.  Compared to the BMW GS or GS A the Triumph is not a better all around bike.  I don't know when I will ever ride a better all around bike than the BMW GS.  If you want the best tool for this job then buy the GS.  Having the best tool for the job is great when we are talking about appliances or actual tools like drill press or shop vac or even a nice Vaughn hammer but I am passionate about motorcycles and the Triumph (while it seemed just "less" than a GS) seemed to be more passionate about the ride.

 

Objectively the only place the Triumph Explorer XCA is better than a GS would be in front end feedback/feel or general agility/flickability if you will and a standard heated seat (front and rear).  The BMW has a better feeling stock seat and would trounce the Explorer in any measured test off pavement but that sweet 1215cc Triple actually has some heart and wants to run and rev.

 

If you are playing a video game and the game has you riding from SC to Alaska and back the cheat code would give you a BMW GS A.  That is how Tall Carver (Stephen) described the BMW.  He said it would make the trip too easy.  Instead of taking candy from a baby he said you would be punching a 5 year old in the face and taking not just his candy but everything else.  Not cool.

 

Will ride a few more bikes on the list before making a decision but after the first quarter the leader is the Triumph Explorer XCA.

 

Did you ride the new 2017 improved model of the XCA with electric windshield? 

 

I have ridden a few of the older variant and it does have some punch.  In terms of Alcan travel it should have enough suspension travel.  This is important as I even bent a KLR rear wheel on a pothole on the ALCAN.  God only knows what would have happened to my VFR or Wing in that scenario.  Wire wheels tend to be more rugged.  I felt the Explorer was a bit top heavy and you probably will have to carry emergency gas. 

 

There is lots to be said of the GSA for travel up north as it has a huge gas tank plus a large OEM pannier kit and many aftermarket bag options.  Having a tanker along will give you some backup if your Harley relative opts not to carry emergency gas.  Comfort will be very important on a trip like this so do not discount that.  The GSA will be a good stablemate for the Harley whatever and you should be able to cruise at comparable highway speeds in the USA. As I remember road conditions limit speeds up North not the bike.  The BMW was one of most popular bikes up in Alaska. My experience with the GS riders up there was very positive as one of them ran down our low rent KLRs to hand deliver some used/laundry "undergarments" which had fallen off the bike. They knew it was us since there were no brand names on the gear!

 

Like the GSA, Triumph has lots of amenities standard which is good as well.  Indeed it looks like the Triumph is starting to creep up in price too when the options add up.  The GSA costs a bunch but if money is not a major consideration the BMW still seems a good North to Alaska option.  Not sure what the Triumph has these days for factory bag options but storage capacity would be another important consideration.  I forgot are you planning to camp along the way?  Not sure if the 2017 still has "floating" bags mounts or more rugged fixed case options?

 

What is your next bike test?

[CornerCarver]

Definately the 2017 Triumph XCA as in addition to the cool new electric windscreen you get front and rear seat heaters and brembo brakes in place of the Triumph branded units on the 2015. The drawback is that the Triumph is within $3,500 of the full zoot  GS A but the BMW price does not include bags and Trumpet price included Motech 45 liter bags and mounts.

 

I know the BMW would be ubiquitous in Alaska and that is part of the reason for wanting to do it on something different.

 

Next to test are Africa Twin and VFR1200X to confirm that the 1200X has traction control that wants to kill you and has lost almost 1/3 of the 1200F HP.

 

I am almost committed to an odd build but don't want to let the cat out of the bag yet. Let's just say that my shop foreman really wants me to do it on a Honda and more specifically a VFR.

 

 

[KevCarver]

Quote

In My Garage::13 V4 Hondas

And that's a conservative number! So why give up on it now?

I really like the Africa Twin idea, but it's tube tires are a let down. Even though it's not a V anything, it is half of my Civic engine!

Now that you're missing your extra test riders, I'm happy to ride the VFR1200X and AT with you, but as noted the reviews on the 1200X aren't great.

Seems like the 800X would be a nice ride, but lacks wire wheels. Apparently that's good in off road conditions. Oh, and you can't get one here. Thus the only clear solution I can see...!

And let's face it, the only real design parameter is to (at the very least) match a giant Harley tourer. It's design parameter appears to be Kansas...

[Sweeper]

So you can't buy an 800x here but you can build one. Is it not mostly a parts bin special?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[007]

8 hours ago, Sweeper said:

So you can't buy an 800x here but you can build one. Is it not mostly a parts bin special?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This makes the most sense of any of the recommendations.  The only problem will be getting it done before the trip, and as I recall there are already a number of unfinished projects hanging in the balance.  Even if it is completed just before the trip, the idea of taking an untested Frankenviffer to Alaska is tenuous at the least.

[007]

My 500X now ticks all of the right boxes with exception to your propensity for fast bikes.  Theoretically, it will do 114mph at redline in 6th by dropping 2 teeth off the rear sprocket and still purrs like a kitten if you stay off the limiter.  The Cogent suspension can be adjusted for anything from corner carving motard to backwoods trail climber.  Being a mini Africa Twin Swiss Army knife, swap out wheels somewhere in Washington for spoked ones with new tires that improve offroad bias (see Rally Raid), reducing pothole and tire maintenance concerns simultaneously.  For the record, it probably has better wind protection than your ST1300 (unless you have fitted hand guards).  Call up Rick at Cogent Dynamics and see what he can do for a build.  He regularly builds custom bikes designed for navigating a battlefield and ridden by men who are not at all squishy in the middle.

 

Really, it all seems like overkill compared to the guy who did this on a Grom, where each pothole and shrapnel loaded semi passing greeted with giggles the whole way.  Nothing compares to boy-like spirit while paradoxically knowing his cojones are far larger than every rider who assuredly passed him on a GS.  Each bike saying "look at the BMW" in distraction from the journey at hand.  No, not this guy with only a milk crate and a fanny pack.  One with the essence of riding, he absorbed the scenery at slower speeds with a nearly unwreckable bike that disappeared beneath him as if propelled through the country at 50mph on a magic bumpy carpet ride.  Recognition of every foot rather than every mile in a symphony of self-restraint.  A GS that transports the rider in pure comfort at light speed will end the trip before it has begun.  Nearly every bike is faster than a Grom and most are faster than a 500X:  but that isn't the point...