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VFRRR

Single Nut Conversion Vfr800 Hrc Rc45 Style - One More:-)

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Exchange rate to US put the whole kit at $205 shipped.

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On 09/02/2018 at 8:48 PM, keef said:

the internet says...

a stock 1098S rear wheel like mine (forged alloy) is 7.85lbs.

I think the 5th gen rear wheel is about 13lbs?

Stock 848 (cast) front wheel is 9.15lbs

no idea what a front vfr wheel weighs.

 

keef, what's the conversion like at speed, any vibrations or imbalance probs?  Done any vmax tests with it?

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I’ve done a few track days on it and some high speed touring (not racing) through the mountains, etc. 

All good at WOT in 6th. 

Or doing crap wheelies. 

Or spinning the back wheel through turn 6. 

 

Just do it. 

 

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Stock 5th gen rear wheel is 6Kg or 13.2lb, the front with bearings/spacer/disc bolts (no discs) is 5Kg or 11lb.

 

BST RC45 5.75" width rear is 3Kg & front is 2.5Kg as per above with bearings/spacers/ti disc bolts.

 

My front conversion is minus 4.5Kg (9.9lb) & the rear with quick sprocket change carrier & my own design cush drive is minus 6.5Kg (14.3lb) most of that is off the rotating mass & with carbon wheels its off the rim area, alloy & carbon wheel weights do NOT mean the same thing, as most of the alloy wheels weight is in the rim, so two wheels of the same weight will feel different due to where the weight is.

 

Have fun :)

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On 2/8/2018 at 1:58 AM, keef said:

 

what are the differences in the 5th/6th/8th gen swingarms? I've notice a few lightweight wheel discussions going on..

 

Not a lot, they all mount up with the right parts. I mocked up a '14 swing arm with a 6th Gen hub on my '99 engine using the rear cushion from a 6th Gen. 6th and 8th swingarms use the same mounting hardware. The "rear cushion" can be changed out to mount 6/8 Gen onto a 5th, 6th and 8th should be able to swap out easily. 

Of course the 6th and 8th are longer than 5th Gen. They use a 2 link longer chain.

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.CENTRE NUT REAR WHEEL CONVERSATION 
I have just finished manufacturing a rear wheel conversion that takes the Ducati 1198 wheel (17x6). 
The nice part about this conversation is that the only item changed is the rear axle everything else is standard OEM.
If anyone is interested in this conversion I can supply this and all you need to do is purchase your own wheel.
Pm me for details

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I was going to do the axel only conversion, and have one with the kit from VFRR welded if anyone is interested PM me.

 

I ended up going with Keef's conversion wanting to use a 5.5 848 wheel and two pot caliper. Waiting on a 520 sprocket and ill post a completed thread.  

IMG_4913.thumb.jpg.2f693167aa4d4eb8f5ffb747f3e2f181.jpgIMG_4896.thumb.jpg.ac663d37761a9ed5c7b774a32c8954f5.jpgIMG_4895.thumb.jpg.0e1571c4729b95b21ab65e035a0a5a2a.jpgIMG_4789.thumb.jpg.0971dae953e1e39b30325ac46e508f47.jpgIMG_3843.thumb.jpg.cb7c145e4e8b9f83aed3ad8a68a89931.jpgIMG_3844.thumb.jpg.1d600b5dcfc888baaeb286c0beb4999b.jpg

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Regarding Steen's (VFRRR) conversion pieces, anyone know for sure the materials they're made from. Steel and Al alloy I know, but exactly what alloys?

 

The axle extension is very magnetic which suggests it's not stainless and Steen made no mention of this so it's likely to be mild steel. In which case, how is everyone who uses one actually protecting the metal? If left bare it will surely rust badly. Paint it?

 

And what about the alloy nut. 7075 perhaps? Or what? Anyone know?

 

Of course Steen knows, but he's kinda busy and I hoped someone else would know for sure.

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Another question about Steen's (VFRRR) conversion kit. I have one here and loosely inserted it into an NC35 axle. Strangely, it is quite loose. Doesn't rattle, but slides in and out. I thought they had to be push fit into the axle. Anyway...

 

I then inserted it into an RC45 wheel and I cannot help but think it's nearly 8mm too long. If I hold the insert into the axle and spin the nut down until it starts to bind on the wheel, there's almost 8mm of thread protruding beyond the nut, before the outer lip with holes to take the pin. The whole threaded portion looks like it should be about 8mm shorter, otherwise it sticks out way too far.

 

Anyone else found this? I cannot see why this is. The RC45 wheel is new and certainly not 'thinned' in any way. The axle is certainly not modified and the extension piece is how it was supplied. How can it end up being 8mm too long?

 

Any ideas?

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2 hours ago, BiKenG said:

Another question about Steen's (VFRRR) conversion kit. I have one here and loosely inserted it into an NC35 axle. Strangely, it is quite loose. Doesn't rattle, but slides in and out. I thought they had to be push fit into the axle. Anyway...

 

I then inserted it into an RC45 wheel and I cannot help but think it's nearly 8mm too long. If I hold the insert into the axle and spin the nut down until it starts to bind on the wheel, there's almost 8mm of thread protruding beyond the nut, before the outer lip with holes to take the pin. The whole threaded portion looks like it should be about 8mm shorter, otherwise it sticks out way too far.

 

Anyone else found this? I cannot see why this is. The RC45 wheel is new and certainly not 'thinned' in any way. The axle is certainly not modified and the extension piece is how it was supplied. How can it end up being 8mm too long?

 

Any ideas?

I have a complete axle " pic above" that Steen yes said was press fit and welded, and is 80mm for base of the rotor mounting plate, "threaded side" to the very end of the attached axle. I never tried to fit a 1098 wheel to it. Is Steen not responding to you? 

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I think Steen is very busy.

 

The assembly I have here is also 80mm when pushed together. But the RC45 wheel and nut is about 67 mm thick which leaves about 13mm protruding beyond the wheel. The groove and lip at the end are about 7mm, so that means 5mm of spare thread. Seems to me that with the nut on and tight, only the groove and lip should be visible so the clip can be fitted. There should be no exposed thread. If nothing else, that would mean the nut can come loose out to the retaining clip and allow the wheel to slide 5mm side to side. This cannot be a good thing as it'll just be flopping around.

 

I originally thought it was 7mm too long, but the measurements above indicate 5mm. So let's take the middle ground and I can't help but think the extension piece is about 6mm too long.

 

I'm not knocking Steen here, the pieces are beautifully made. It just seems I must be missing something here.

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I don't know if you saying he is "very busy" is code for something like he is "in prison"; because no matter how busy, he should be able to respond to a question. I don't see a pic of a completed project or even a wheel on the bike, and his last post on this thread was 2016, unless I'm missing something. So I'm guessing we have expensive paperweights in our possession...

 

 

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Regarding Ducati axle and wheel, how is the wheel located on the axle?

 

On an NC30 the wheel is a snug fit over the enlarged boss next to the disc/drive pin flange, so the spacer and nut just hold it in place.

The RC45 wheel is not so snug on the inner side, but the conical spacer is snug over the outer end of the axle and so locates the wheel.

 

How do Ducati do it?

 

From looking at measurements, it would appear that the wheel is actually quite loose on the axle and it is only the conical spacer that locates the wheel, centralising it and pushing it up against the flange, holding it in that central position by the clamping force of the nut. Not that different from the RC45 in fact, although the Ducati wheel is even looser on the axle as far as I can see.

 

Is this how others see it? The only location of the Ducati's wheel is done by the conical spacer?

 

BTW, what is the offset of the 1098 (6") wheel? Honda use a 19mm offset and the 916 (smaller axle) is 23mm, but what about those Ducs with the larger axle? What offset do they use? Same as for the smaller axle?

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14 minutes ago, gig said:

I don't know if you saying he is "very busy" is code for something like he is "in prison"; because no matter how busy, he should be able to respond to a question.

 

Ha, no, not code. I have been in touch with Steen, but he was heavily involved in something (business, or moving house, I now forget which) and is apt to take a very long time to reply. In any case, I'm sure he gets posts to this thread, so I figured asking here provided the best 'audience'. 😀

 

Did you ever mount an RC45 wheel to your modified axle? Surely someone has and can comment on its fitment and the length of the modified axle?

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All things considered, and i know you were unsure of the material used on the axle, no way would not mount a wheel to that axle.

I would suggest doing the conversion that Keef had done. Im guessing the small and large axle Duc wheels have the same offset, as the 3mm spacer used by Extremecreations was to square the wheel, and my measurements on the small axel wheel with the spacer were good. 

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I am working through 2 conversions. One is to accept an RC45 wheel and the other a 916 wheel. Those are now set. I just need to figure out the best way to modify the NC[30|35] axles.

 

Since both wheels rely on the conical spacer to centrally locate them, I'm thinking I might make 2 identical axle extensions to suit the (smaller bore) 916 wheel and use std. 916 axle nuts (well, Ti ones). Then a std. 916 spacer can be used with the 916 wheel and I'll make a special spacer to suit the RC45 wheel. That way, either wheel can actually be used on either bike.

 

Actually the axles will need some slight machining to the outer end so the 916 wheel will fit, but they can be identical. Just need the special cone spacer to suit the RC45 wheel and inner spacer with longer drive pins for the 916 type wheel.

 

I like the fact that then any RC45 or 916 (748 etc) type wheel could be used on either bike with minimal work involved.

 

I'd still like to know though what steel Steen used for his axle extension as I presume it's suitable and I'll then use the same.

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I have done the conversion using Ducati rear wheel and keeping all the original vfr components just made a new shaft to marry both together and now have a 200 rear tyre fitted.

D730535D-69E9-4516-BE31-1C3C6E944345.jpeg

EFDB239C-2C65-4D23-91EC-06CD15FDA7ED.jpeg

B0F7657D-5F93-40E0-9E6C-CD1FB7526DA5.jpeg

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Stuartm,

 

I appreciate your ingenuity and entrepreneurship! I feel like the spirit of the forum is to help others and if you can help them by selling them something you've created thats great, but if you do not show us the exact details of what you have done and field questions you can't expect us to buy one of these. Look what has just happened to some of us on this same thread with Steens conversion, that we had had seen and questioned. Its only going to be proprietary until / if you sell the first one. 

 

Bike looks great so far 

Gig

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Further consideration has made me realise that my dream of using identical axles to allow swapping of RC45 and 916 wheels is not going to happen. The 916 wheel is 4mm wider at the centre AND will require a 4mm spacer, so the axle will need to be 8mm longer which is too much to allow for with a special conical spacer. No big deal though as I never actually intended to swap wheels, just thought it would be a cool feature.

 

However I did weigh both wheels as it was clear to me that although 1/2" narrower, the 916 felt a fair bit heavier:-

 

  • 916 = 6,055 gms
  • RC45 = 5,260 gms

That's bare, clean wheel with valve.

 

More questions now. Could someone with the LARGE Ducati axle (1098 etc) let me know some measurements of the wheel/nut end i.e. length of axle from flange face to thread end and also diameter(s). Just pondering whether to use those dimensions (and hence 1098 type nut) for the RC45 wheel.

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For a couple hundred bucks, why not just buy the ex creations kit?

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1 hour ago, keef said:

For a couple hundred bucks, why not just buy the ex creations kit?

 

Well, for starters, I think that's a LOT of money for not a lot. Just a few brackets that are not suitable for my purposes and I'd still have to buy a complete Ducati axle assembly. Secondly, why pay for someone else to do something I can do myself (once I have all the info). Where's the fun in that 🙂

 

My intention is to have a 916 type nut and axle thread on an NC[30|35] axle that will provide what I need for these bikes. Same concept as Steen's, but with a different thread and no need to manufacture the actual nuts.

 

Since I'll be using my own calipers and hence need to make my own mount brackets for those, even less reason to waste money on the EC kit which would actually provide me with nothing that I need.

 

"Paddle my own furrow" eh Mohawk 😉 

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Ahh, i see.

But you'd be paying money to stop wasting time.

When i asked extreme to make the 1098 wheel fit a vfr, we originally talked about making an adapter, like carrozerria used to do. The shim and spacer is much cleaner.

For me, the goal was to get readily available lightweight wheels on my vfr, which i accomplished years ago.

Insert smart arse smiley here.

 

If gig used the Ex creations kit to fit an 848 wheel, and the 848 wheel uses rhe same axle size as the old 916 series of bikes, it stands to reason that you could fit a 916 wheel as well.

Is the goal the wheel, or being able to say you made it yourself?

 

 

 

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In that case, the goal is the wheel, but I won't be using Ducati axles and stuff. Goes against the grain on a Honda (apart from the wheel of course 🙂 )

 

Anyone got an accurate Ducati wheel offset? Hard to measure exactly. Is it 23mm or 7/8"?

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I may not have explained that this bike is based on a VFR750 with Gen3 SSSA whose rear end is 70 wide by 105mm dia. The Ducati hub is 80 wide by 110 dia. and no matter which way I look at it, 110 into 105 don't go 😞

 

So the simplest solution is to stick with the 750 hub and axle and just make an extension to suit the 916 wheel.

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