Member Contributer windyrun Posted July 30, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted July 30, 2014 OK, I'm new to vfrs (don't actually own one yet) so my question might seem dumb: it seems lots of people have issues with the vtec. If the engine is already set up for four valve operation that kicks in by computer controlled tricks at certain rpm, then why doesn't honda give users/riders the option of flicking a button that leaves it in four valve operation all the time (or just killing the two valve function electronically and leaving the engine as is 4 valve all the time)? Then there's no lurch or whatever when vtec kicks in and the purported benefits of the system are available to user if they like. Kind of like a switch that turns of traction control or abs. I don't know...just askin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer thor294 Posted July 30, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted July 30, 2014 VTEC is amazing on cars, because you essentially have like 4 different camshaft(s) in your vehicle. One for each driving mode (cruising, flooring it, etc. etc.) so I would leave it on. They just need to make it as smooth as it is on a car and it'll be great. Better MPG without sacrificing power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHvar Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 On VTEC cars its not smooth at all, its a big jump in fact. When the VTEC in cars activates there is a big difference. The VTEC in cars uses all valves all of the time with variable amounts of lift and duration depending on engine rpm, oil pressure, temperature, etc. I also have a Honda car with IVTEC, an Acura RSX type-S its quite a big increase when it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer thor294 Posted July 30, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted July 30, 2014 aye they use all the valves all the time. I've driven i-VTEC cars and VVT cars as well, and you can tell. but again, they need to smooth out the transition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer windyrun Posted July 30, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted July 30, 2014 I guess what I'm wondering is why doesn't honda just say they have multiple modes (regular--as it works now with 2 valve then switch to 4 value above 7k rpm-- and a second POWER mode--always in 4 valve mode regardless of rpm). Then let rider have a switch to set which mode they prefer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Radial caliper mounted brakes on RSU forks?? kinda like an oxymoron.... What's the point of radial caliper mounted brakes anyway if it's not paired with USD forks?? It could be more of a cosmetic gimmick on this bike than anything else.. Honda saves a few bucks going half way with the front end and we still don't get modern suspension on a 2014 VFR.....I also think new forum members/1st time VFR owners who are buying or thinking of buying this new VFR, haven't been here long enough to know how long and hard we've been asking Honda for modern suspension on supposedly one of Honda's premier model bikes..... It's hindsight now, but I think they should have just forgotten about the VTEC for a while and gave us better legs under the VFR instead, after the 5th gen....Anyway, the VTEC system had not been a universal success with VFR owners, I would think good suspension will be more of an instant hit..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogman Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Please explain why radial mounted brakes would work better on USD forks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raoufhakam Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Please explain why radial mounted brakes would work better on USD forks. to make it short, radial mounted brakes were introduced for two reasons: 1/ to have a more rigid mounting to the bottom of USD fork. 2/ to allow easier change to a larger diameter rotors by just adding a spacer to the mounting bolt. but im still gonna argue why honda wasnt the first to put radial mounted calipers on a conventional fork, Yamaha put that on their V-Max 1700 as well ! Radial calipers / radial brakes. Around 2003, motorbikes started to hit the showrooms with a new feature - radial brakes. The magazines and testers will all tell you that radial brakes make the bike stop quicker. Not true - they have nothing to do with stopping power and everything to do with the design of the front forks of the bike. More and more bikes are coming out with upside-down forks. ie. instead of the fat canister part of the fork being at the bottom of the assembly, it's at the top. This means that the fork pistons are now the part of the suspension with the wheel attached to them. It also means that it's impossible to put a stiffening fork brace down there now because the brace would need to move with the wheel, and the length of the fork pistons precludes that. The stiffness of the front end is now entirely dependent on the size of the front axle. Bigger axle = stiffer front end. A side-effect of this design was that traditionally-mounted brake calipers could cause a lot of vibration in the steering because of flex between the wheel (with the brake disc bolted to it), and the fork leg (with the caliper). The slight tolerance allowed by floating brake rotors couldn't compensate for the amount of flexing in the forks. To reduce the brake-induced fork vibration, the brake calipers were moved around the rotors slightly so that they fell into the front-rear alignment of the wheel axle. There's less lateral flex at that point, which means less or no vibration. The caliper mounts were changed too. Traditional calipers bolt on to the forks with bolts going through them at 90° to the face of the brake rotor. With radial calipers, the bolts are aligned parallel to the brake rotor - effectively also in the front-rear alignment of the wheel. This design is a trickle-down technology from superbike racing where a radial caliper mount allows the racing teams to use different diameters of brake rotor by simply adding spacers between the caliper and the mounting bracket. The image here shows the difference between traditional and radially mounted brake calipers. Read more: http://www.carbibles.com/brake_bible.html#ixzz390eUQ0xU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 OK, I'm new to vfrs (don't actually own one yet) so my question might seem dumb: it seems lots of people have issues with the vtec. If the engine is already set up for four valve operation that kicks in by computer controlled tricks at certain rpm, then why doesn't honda give users/riders the option of flicking a button that leaves it in four valve operation all the time (or just killing the two valve function electronically and leaving the engine as is 4 valve all the time)? Then there's no lurch or whatever when vtec kicks in and the purported benefits of the system are available to user if they like. Kind of like a switch that turns of traction control or abs. I don't know...just askin' VTEC in the VFR is hydraulic pressure, not electronics, unless I'm mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer auggius Posted July 31, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted July 31, 2014 I think they did good everywhere but the engine. I don't know why its so hard to just put some more ponies to the ground out of a beautiful sounding v4?How much faster do you want to go or need to go on the streets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHvar Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 The front brakes on the 2014 VFR800FD are radial mounted to take advantage of the monoblock Tokico calipers on large rotors. The brakes on this bike are amazing, they are powerful. Yamaha used radial monoblock calipers on the 2009-2011 1680cc Star Vmax because one of the biggest complaints with the prior models was very weak brakes, there were people adapting R1 brakes to their Vmax to get improvements before that. The suspension works great on the new VFR800FD, and the bike handles great. I personally like the bike just the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfh Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Radial caliper mounted brakes on RSU forks?? kinda like an oxymoron.... What's the point of radial caliper mounted brakes anyway if it's not paired with USD forks?? It could be more of a cosmetic gimmick on this bike than anything else.. Honda saves a few bucks going half way with the front end and we still don't get modern suspension on a 2014 VFR.... #1 Radial mounting brake callipers is to improve the stiffness of the calliper & its mount. Less flex at the mount means better brake feel in the same way that braided lines improve feel over stock rubber. It has no effect whatsoever if that mount is part of an USD or RWU. #2 Ask yourself which is more "modern." The front end on a Yamaha MT-09/FZ09 fitted with a functioning damping cartridge only one of its two USD forks, or the 8th gen with fully functioning damper cartridges in each RWU fork leg? RWU or USD matters for nothing if the internal components are poor quality (or just not there!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Please explain why radial mounted brakes would work better on USD forks. As already mentioned, Radial caliper mounting design came about to add stiffness to the brake caliper/fork leg connection. The flex the radial mounting is eliminating comes from the longish mounting arm and brackets that were used to connect the lower leg axle carrier and the then conventional calipers that were pretty much still identical to what was used on RSU fork. Now a RSU fork with it's caliper more directly connected to the fork through short mounting tabs on the lower cast aluminum fork leg tubes, did not have the same "flex problem" (was this really a big problem with street bikes?) as the older USD fork caliper mounts. So in the end, a radial caliper mount on an RSU fork is mostly superfluous, not needed, a solution seeking a problem.....That's why I think the "hybrid" design fork on the new VFR and most likely on the Yamaha that was also mentioned here, if it does exist, does not make too much sense. Sure a new radial mount assembly might give a little bit more stiffness than a conventional mount on a RSU fork mostly because of it's newer engineering, but I'm sure that 99% of us will never push the bikes braking hard enough for us to ever really notice/feel any difference. Dang!, I can't count the many times that even the old fashion sliding caliper front brakes on my 4th gen performed more than adequately to save my life in the most critical conditions through the almost two decades I've been riding the bike. They work pretty well as long as you maintain them properly. But I can sure remember all the times I wished the suspension on my bike isn't so easily pushed close to or over it's limits on the twisties. In the end, I'm sure that most would rather have a modern suspension system that most of us will feel a big difference with,in term of the higher potential for improvement on how the bike will handle instead of a possibly stiffer brake caliper mount which is surely much further down on the wish list of most VFR or most modern motorcycle owners. As for power, anything over 100HP is more than adequate for me personally, so, I don't think this new VFR really needs any more,..... unless I plan to to ride regularly at over 140ish MPH? Like I said, Why can't Honda just once and for all, give us a complete, modern front end design and enough of this half baked stuff, we, who are supposedly the more sophisticated sector of the market know deserve better and judging from the price this new VFR is selling for, Honda owes it to the buyers of the bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogman Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I would take a guess that the front calipers on this bike are common to another Honda bike, hence saving production costs, and they work just fine, way better than the linked brake setup on the previous model, and I can tell you there is no comparison between these brakes and the 4th gen front brake even with the best pads and braided lines. (I have a 4th gen as well). Maybe a few of the naysayers should try this bike, they might even like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Once the "new" wears out of this 8th gen for owners, they will start wondering why Honda didn't give them a full new modern front end....... and they'll be swapping front ends from other Hondas like previous gen VFR owners had been doing....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer thor294 Posted July 31, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted July 31, 2014 I think they did good everywhere but the engine. I don't know why its so hard to just put some more ponies to the ground out of a beautiful sounding v4?How much faster do you want to go or need to go on the streets? I guess no one likes to go to the track? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRad704 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 As much as this seems like a VFR specific conversation... I'd bet money that every major forum dedicated to a single model of bike has the exact same threads going on every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyVFR Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 It felt great and so much better all round compared to my Tiger 800 on the test ride, so I've ordered my first VFR. The brakes felt firm and strong, the front suspension well controlled. Isn't it all about rider feel, impressions and satisfaction rather than barside bragging rights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer thor294 Posted July 31, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted July 31, 2014 My local dealer still hasn't gotten an 8th gen yet... so I won't really have my judgement till then. I've ridden quite a few bikes, but 3 different VFRs. 86 vf500, my current 86 VFR750, and an 07 RWB vfr800. Out of the 3, the 750 takes the cake. I shall see how the new one feels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cug Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I guess no one likes to go to the track? With a 240kg tourer? Sure, sightseeing on Nürburgring ... If I want to go really fast on the track I get a proper track bike, which will not be based on a tourer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted July 31, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted July 31, 2014 any more bra-less pictures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHvar Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 "..That's why I think the "hybrid" design fork on the new VFR and most likely on the Yamaha that was also mentioned here, if it does exist, does not make too much sense." Here is the yamaha radial mounted 6 piston monoblock front brake calipers on the vmax, so it most definitely exists. Although its a photo of a 2013 model, they are RWU and radial mounted http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/motorcycles/2013models/2013-Yamaha-VMax-VMX17b.jpg Exactly as mentioned prior to this, the forks on the VFR800FD work great, the suspension handles great (better than my old CBR600 did when it was new). Regardless of which way the forks face if they are not equipped to do the job they do nothing for you but look fashionable because USD forks are the current fashion for bragging rights among sporty street bike owners. I could care less which way they face if they work properly, its a 500 plus lb middleweight comfortable sportbike made and equipped useful, to be ridden in the real world, if I wanted a razor edge track bike with a fictional weight claimed by the manufacturer to be lower than what it actually is I might have saved a little bit of money and bought a CBRxxxrr, or any of its competitors, but I wanted a VFR800FD instead. Now, dead horse, beat, beat, beat, beat, let me switch arms quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted July 31, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted July 31, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarantzManiac Posted August 1, 2014 Author Share Posted August 1, 2014 Who asked for bra-less pics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHvar Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Oooh topless VFR photos. Nice looking bike. I remember sitting on one like that years ago at the dealer when I was getting some service done on my cbr, it was a leftover from a prior model year or so, was yellow, dont remember the exact model year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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