Guest djeffreys10 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Back story: A friend of mine wrecked this bike back in 2010, and I let him park it in my storage unit. It cranked when it was parked, but fuel was left in the tank. He recently gave it to me instead of some money he owed me, I figured it would be fun to have a project that wouldn't take my main bike off the road. And it would be a great learing experiene. I replaced all the bits damaged in the wreck, and all it would do is turn over. Fuel pump primes. I swapped out the spark plugs, and now when I turn it over it sounds like one cylinder is firing. It just won't crank. So now I am pulling the injectors to soak them in either Seafoam or denatured alcohol and hopefully clean them out. Got the air box off, but it's looking like I have to remove the throttle bodies to get to the bolts holding on the fuel rails. I am an electrical engineer, so this stuff isn't exactly my strong point. I don't want to accidentally cause a lot of extra work for myself, so I am just at a position where I don't feel comfortable going any further without seeing step by step instructions. The friend is a major VFR guy, and he recomended I bring any questions to this forum. So I am here.Long story short, I have searched but can't find instructions on pullling the injectors on a 5th gen VFR, only a 6th gen. Which isn't helpful. Can any of you point me in the right direction? It would be most appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misspent Youth Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 He should be along shortly, but I believe Kaldek knows the procedure cold. In the meantime, consider searching for Kaldek and fuel injector in case he's posted it previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 That's actually the guide I found for a sixth generation. But the fifth generation fuel rails are mounted completely different, and I can not find a way to access the bolts without removing the throttle bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MadScientist Posted March 31, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted March 31, 2014 When I sent mine out for cleaning and testing, I seem to recall removing the throttle body assembly. I think the only way to remove the bolts holding on the fuel rails is from the bottom... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 That's what I was thinking. I am just nervous about removing the throttle body assembly without seeing a step by step. Worried I will end up doing something that will cause lot of work for myself that could have easily been avoided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MadScientist Posted March 31, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted March 31, 2014 You could use the clymer procedure: "Simply remove the throttle body assembly. Installation is reverse of removal" Or Grab the service manual from the downloads section: http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/files/file/171-98-01-honda-vfr-service-manual-optimized-bookmarked/ I remember that getting to the screws that clamp the intake rubbers to the bottom of the throttle body is a pain. Aligning and properly seating the throttle bodies in the boots wasn't that bad for me. I took the boots out and let them sit with armor all on them for a while to restore some flexibility. I also lubed the lip of the boot with rubber safe silicon grease when re-installing. Edit: I think permatex dielectric grease would work fine. If anyone is doing this on a bike w/ O2 sensor, make sure that the grease is compatible, I know a lot of silicon products can damage them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted March 31, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted March 31, 2014 Try this video .. It's a 6th gen but it's very close to the same procedure .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MadScientist Posted March 31, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted March 31, 2014 This is the problem with using a VTEC procedure: 6th Gen: 5th Gen: Notice that the bolts for the fuel rails are accessible from the top. This is simply not possible on a 5th gen, must flip throttle body over to access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 You could use the clymer procedure: "Simply remove the throttle body assembly. Installation is reverse of removal" Or Grab the service manual from the downloads section: http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/files/file/171-98-01-honda-vfr-service-manual-optimized-bookmarked/ I remember that getting to the screws that clamp the intake rubbers to the bottom of the throttle body is a pain. Aligning and properly seating the throttle bodies in the boots wasn't that bad for me. I took the boots out and let them sit with armor all on them for a while to restore some flexibility. I also lubed the lip of the boot with rubber safe silicon grease when re-installing. Edit: I think permatex dielectric grease would work fine. If anyone is doing this on a bike w/ O2 sensor, make sure that the grease is compatible, I know a lot of silicon products can damage them. I am at work right now, but I will grab the manual tonight when I get home and see what I can learn while sitting on the couch with the kiddos. They go visit their mom tomorrow night, so maybe I will have a solid grasp of what to do by then so I can get them off and let them soak for few nights and maybe have the thing running by this weekend. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted March 31, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted March 31, 2014 Silly question, but how do you know that you have bad injectors and not something else? Did you check for spark at each cylinder? Are your plugs wet after cranking? Are all of the safety switches functioning properly? Do you have a FI warning light? Lots of things I would check before pointing the finger at the injectors. Those are one of the last places I would look at after a crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted March 31, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted March 31, 2014 Try this video .. It's a 6th gen but it's very close to the same procedure .. Maybe not that close !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Silly question, but how do you know that you have bad injectors and not something else? Did you check for spark at each cylinder? Are your plugs wet after cranking? Are all of the safety switches functioning properly? Do you have a FI warning light? Lots of things I would check before pointing the finger at the injectors. Those are one of the last places I would look at after a crash. I am assuming they are dirty because before he stored it in my storage unit, he cranked it with me there and it fired up, idled, and reved just like nothing ever happened. He had every intention of fixing it over the next few weeks, so he didn't drain the fuel. But life happened, and about 3.5 years later I am fixing it. Since it just sat during that time with fuel, it would stand to reason that the fuel just gummed up. I have fire on the spark plugs, and they are brand new. Swapped them for good measure, since it was easy and they are cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MadScientist Posted March 31, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted March 31, 2014 If you have $100 to spare on this project, I'll plug the place that did my injectors: http://www.witchhunter.com/ I thought I had a leaky injector so they went off to the pros for cleaning. They send back a sheet listing all the before and after test results as well as all of the old parts they replaced on the injectors. I had not specified to them any issues with the injectors, but I their pre-cleaning tests did indicate that one of the injectors was not sealing properly. Turn around time was pretty good too, about a week IIRC. Yeah, also, removing the throttle body from those old/stiff connection boots may be difficult: I couldn't find a good thread for 5th gen throttle body removal, but I didn't search that hard. May want to use google as there could be a good how-to on one of the other VFR forums. While you are going through this bike, you may want to flush the coolant. Sitting for a few years might have sludged things up a bit and while you have the throttle body out, you have good access to replace the thermostat and any damaged coolant lines that run under the throttle bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer thtanner Posted March 31, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted March 31, 2014 My bike needed a new fuel pump, not an injector cleaning, after it had sat a long time. Are you sure the fuel pump is actually pushing gas to the injectors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Cogswell Posted March 31, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted March 31, 2014 I just took a look at the 5th gen factory service manual (paper copy) for the injector removal procedure and the first thing it says is "Remove the throttle body". On my 6th gen I removed the injectors by just eyeballing it - I never cracked the manual. Too bad they couldn't have made 5th gens similar. I got a noticeable improvement in low end smoothness by cleaning the injectors on my 6th gen. The injector orifices are now so tiny that even the slightest of clogging can result in poor spray patterns. On my 6th gen I had 3 that were rated "good" and 1 "fair" (which was leaking when off), and that on (at the time) a 4 year old bike. I sent them to RC Engineering - I think they were $25 per. Great service, fast turnaround. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted April 1, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted April 1, 2014 It doesn't take nearly as much effort to take the plugs out and make sure each one is actually sparking as it does to take the injectors out and clean them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MadScientist Posted April 1, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted April 1, 2014 It does sound a little strange that all the injectors are plugged up. Are any of the plugs wet after cranking? Is there actually power getting to the injectors? I might do a quick once over of the wiring harness to make sure that mice haven't eaten any of the wiring. The fuel pump should also hum momentarily when the key is switched to the on position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I have already drained the coolant, going to put in fresh when I get everything running. Have a new reserve bottle on the way, the old one was dry rotted. I have eyeballed it, and didn't see anywhere that the harness looked damaged. The fuel pump hums when powered on. I don't have a wiring diagram to tell me what pins to check for power on the injectors. Oh, I did verify the spark plugs are firing. And they were a tad damp after trying to crank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JeffInFranklinTN Posted April 1, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted April 1, 2014 It does sound a little strange that all the injectors are plugged up. Are any of the plugs wet after cranking? Is there actually power getting to the injectors? I might do a quick once over of the wiring harness to make sure that mice haven't eaten any of the wiring. The fuel pump should also hum momentarily when the key is switched to the on position. I don't know.....sitting for more than 3 years with fuel in it and fuel that more than likely has ethanol in it. Fuel that old is probably so "stale" by now, you couldn't use it in a zippo lighter. STILL is a nice score though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 That fuel has been dumped out. I replaced the tank, as the old one had a huge dent in it. Replaced the ruber set and that steel wool looking thing on the fuel pump also, as the old rubber set disintegrated when I pulled the fuel pump from the old tank. I put about a gallon of fresh fuel in with a couple ounces of seafoam when I tried to start it. Thanks, I am happy with it. And honestly, if my buddy wants it back for what I have in it when I am finished I will sell it back to him. He just didn't have anywhere to work on it, as driving to my house that often wasn't feasible (he lives about 45 minutes from me). Just the educational factor of messing with this thing has been invaluable to me. Plus, it has been pretty fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MadScientist Posted April 1, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted April 1, 2014 Well, you've got fuel (wet plugs), spark (you checked all cylinders?), and air should be a given. Only thing not covered would be compression. At this point I would bust out the starting fluid and see if I could force it to start. Once I know that it will run, then I would start chasing issues that cause poor running. Are you using the choke lever when you try to start? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Well I already have the airbox off, but I guess I could put it back on and try starter fluid. Where would I spray it on a fuel injected bike? And I tried to start it without choking it, with choke, and while messing with the throttle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted April 1, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted April 1, 2014 So you have spark on all 4 cylinders (nice bright blue I'm assuming with new plugs), clean air filter, oil, fresh gas, and when you crank, all 4 plugs are a bit damp with fuel? Something is amiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Maybe if you could post a short video of you trying to start the bike, it might help with lads identify what the problem could be by hearing it turning over. I wonder if you have an electrical fault (fuse)? What actually happened in the crash? Where was the bike most badly damaged? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 The old air filter looked dirty, but didn't look clogged. In need of changing for sure, but didn't look like it would prevent it from starting. I have a new air filter on order. I may put the airbox back on tonight and take a video of it trying to start with the old air filter before pulling the injectors, and give the spark plugs a second look for good measure. It just seemed kinda logical to me that, given that is cranked and ran well before storage, it must be the old fuel gumming up the system. But then again, something seeming logical to me has no bearing on what is actually the cause I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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