Handling, Running Out Of Rear Tire, Suspension Settings

[CandyRedRC46]

i just put it to about 35/40...

ill get back to you guys on how it feels.

i am assuming that its going to be easier to lock up the tires under hard braking, and spin the rear under hard acceleration.

i am also assuming that handling and cornering will be more stable though.

we shall see.

[YoshiHNS]

I'm not sure about the stability part. With more pressure your tires are going to feel different than before when you are in the process of leaning the bike over. As I said earlier, the ST feels sluggish putting it in a turn if the pressure is low. Difference in the tire profile and shape. It might make it more stable because the sidewall is able to do its job better now, if it does anything at all.

When I think corner stability, I think more of adjusting the suspension than adjusting tire pressure.

And indeed we shall see.

[CornerCarver]

And that is my point, when was the last time you ran the tire manufacturers recommended pressure on the street? These aren't the bias ply tires of two decades ago.

If it has been more than a the last two or three tire advancements then you should run the correct air pressure on the street and tell us what you find. What ill handling issue are you correcting by dropping your pressures from the tire engineers recommended pressure?

What test data can you provide that shows you have more grip on the street by lowering your tire pressures below the design engineers?

We old dogs with a few decades of riding under our belt will probably just agree to disagree but I don't want some new riders on here thinking that your two decade long riding with your tires below the design specification for air pressure is empirical data that must be followed or they will blow up or slide off the road.

LMAO. Yeah running 34/36 and your tire will delaminate, explode, and slide off the road!!!! Dumbest shit I've read on here yet.

I posted what I run. You can hand down absolutes, myself, I don't deal with them so you'll have to pardon the demeanor.

You must have missed the parts of my post where I spoke to several tire mfr's about hard twisty riding and pressures. 2 different reps recommended 34/36. 36/42 is the max rating, hell it's printed on my bike. It's not rocket science that when you drop a few psi you get more contact patch.

I run even lower pressures at the track (32/32) and I've never had a tire explode or cause me to take a trip in the litter. It sounds like you don't know much about PSI or grip.

What you should do is not blow a gasket when someone doesn't agree with you. Stock pressure for all is nonsense. I ran stock pressure on both of my bikes when new, and one of them was bought this year. That shit didn't last long either.

I apologize for being dismissive with my reading comprehension remark but you are arguing that I am handing down absolutes and that you don't deal in them while simultaneously telling others with less experience than you that they should never run the tire manufacturers pressure unless they are slabbing it or fully loaded...my bolded statement was either glossed over by you as you appear to be ignoring anyone who does not agree with your take or you missed the meaning.

What my bolded statement means is that you are suggesting that if the less experienced rider runs recommended pressures of the tire manufacturer that they will have less grip available and that they may slide off the road. You then missed that and suggested that I said by running 34/36 that they will explode or delaminate.

I did not say that, the tire engineers indicate that the additional heat in the carcass will result in decreased performance, reduced tire life and possibly a deformed carcass. The tire engineers also state that lowering the tire pressure does not change the rubber compound and therefore can not offer additional grip (you can easily argue that slightly changing the pressures for the street could result in a different or better contact patch and that may increase you feeling of grip with the tire and that is a valid point).

Manufacturers recommended cold pressures are the same the world over, but what really matters is HOT ! Also remember that those pressures are recommended at an industry standard 20c ambients temperature ! What was the temp where you live when you last checked them ?

Imagine dragging the bike out on the first dry day of spring in 5c temps checking your pressures at 36/42, then a couple of weeks later you have a mini heat wave of 30c guess where your tyre pressures are gonna be !? Over the recommended setting.

Now imagine the difference between setting the cold pressure in Texas summer temps & running on red hot tarmac & doing the same in Alaska autumn, running on cold roads. Do you think the running temp & thus pressure will be the same ? Simple answer NO.

Now go adjust your pressures to suit your needs !

I disagree with this statement for street riding as well or else we would be directed to set our tires pressure when hot. The engineers have already taken this into account in the design of the tire as the heat put into the carcass by an underinflated tire has more of an impact on the pressure than whether or not the pavement the tire just rolled across is damp and shady from a recent shower or sitting in the midday sun.

^^ sometimes common sense just falls on deaf ears, well said Mohawk.

To many people are like sheep & need to follow, just because there is a spec sheet of recommended settings for everything doesn't mean there the be all & end all of settings. People modify there bikes differently, buy different model bikes, buy different tires, use different oil & the list goes on. The most important thing is to use tires & pressures that YOU the rider feel confident with, it doesn't matter if you can obtain the same grip wear with a harder compound tire or higher pressure than you like to run, the important thing is the rider has confidence in his/her set up. I run a softer compound on the VFR than I need 95% of the time & waste money having to replace my tires due to lower mileage, but I feel more at ease knowing I have lets say an extra level of tolerance if I do push the limits which would probably be less than 5% of the time.

Sometimes common sense does indeed fall on deaf ears but many more times internet wisdom is accepted as proven science. I still say 32/32 for the street is too low for Candy RC46 and that is what started this entire pissing match. Neither LuvtoLean, Mohawk nor Roy are new riders and I know that as a VFR owner you are not like the other sheeple who only make bike buying decisions based on the magazine test or spec sheet and I have no issue with every rider playing with their air pressure settings just as they do fork oil height, rear ride height, tire choice and even, synthetic vs dino oil but to tell a guy that running the recommended tire pressure of the tire manufacturer will not work unless they are slabbing it or loaded down commuting needs to have another counter point.

not trying to continue an argument or end one, to each his own, just trying to provide a different perspective on the statement below.

And you need to put more air in your tires, 36/42

I see those numbers posted often. Those are stock pressure settings and not ideal for twisty work. Perfect for commuting and such but definitely not what I would run if you are throwing the thing through turns with anger.

32/32 is still really low for the street. Street use is where the manufacturers design the tires for, and they design them to work their best at 36/42. For the track lower pressures are fine, but unless you are going fast to the point where you are backing it in every corner, there isn't much of a reason to run 10psi lower *on the street. A couple psi down maybe.

ps...if this is too lengthy to read, just cut to this line, everyone was right, my apologies.

[timmythecop]

each and every question relating to air pressure is answered in the informative video below.

[luvtoleanit]

I apologize for being dismissive with my reading comprehension remark but you are arguing that I am handing down absolutes and that you don't deal in them while simultaneously telling others with less experience than you that they should never run the tire manufacturers pressure unless they are slabbing it or fully loaded...my bolded statement was either glossed over by you as you appear to be ignoring anyone who does not agree with your take or you missed the meaning.

What my bolded statement means is that you are suggesting that if the less experienced rider runs recommended pressures of the tire manufacturer that they will have less grip available and that they may slide off the road. You then missed that and suggested that I said by running 34/36 that they will explode or delaminate.

I did not say that, the tire engineers indicate that the additional heat in the carcass will result in decreased performance, reduced tire life and possibly a deformed carcass. The tire engineers also state that lowering the tire pressure does not change the rubber compound and therefore can not offer additional grip (you can easily argue that slightly changing the pressures for the street could result in a different or better contact patch and that may increase you feeling of grip with the tire and that is a valid point).

I never said if someone runs less than full pressure they'd slide off the road. Please point out where that was said. It wasn't stated, suggested, 0, nada, didn't happen.

You keep referencing these "tire engineers." I've told you, repeatedly I might add, that I have spoken to tire reps before, multiple. I've spoken with Bridgestone, Metzeler, and Pirelli over the years and what they told me and what you are saying as "Tire engineers" doesn't match up. I've attended many track days, spoken with tire reps, worked with rider coaches, mechanics, and riding schools. Every single one of them has told me to adjust PSI to conditions. And those are temps, road surfaces, riding style (commuting vs. twisties), suspension, weight of the bike, weight of the rider, etc. It's variable, much like suspension settings such as sag, rebound, compression, etc.

A few of us have told you that there is a gross weight rating on our bikes. And that 36/42 is a max PSI rating for these tires, that means maximum NOT MINIMUM. We've also told you that there is a relationship with PSI and grip. We've also stated that none of us believe track PSI is what you should run on the road. So we are now just going in circles so that you can keep trying to be right.

I stated what I run. A few of us have stated also, to learn these things for yourself, don't believe us, or you. Do your own experimentation and learn about PSI, and what it does to grip. My experience says that 36/42 is for when i have my bikes loaded with gear and/or when I'm slabbing it. Over 90% of my riding is hard twisty riding, with the additional 10% being the track. When specifically hopping on one of them to corner, I drop the PSI in both my tires, slightly, to gain some additional grip, which I do in fact get, and what I've experimented with for many, many years, as well as working with tire mfr's to find an ideal setting for my riding style, conditions, speed, etc. You indicate that will give a decrease in performance and to me that is an outright lie. Perhaps you should take your own advice and try it instead of stating a one rule for all that many of us have told you just doesn't work. You are hell bent on this so you go ahead and continue on with it and if that works for you, great. I will say just about everyone here is going to have some experience. If they don't, they've got bigger problems than this jumping on a high powered bike as their first and not knowing what they are doing.

Yes I run lower PSI than the max rating. My tires do not deform, I get an INCREASE in performance and the only negative is slightly less tire life out of the rear tires that I am happy to trade off to gain additional grip. Running lower pressure will not cause you to slide off the road, or the tire to explode or any other such nonsense. Even mentioning that was completely stupid, inaccurate, and slander and I don't think you understand the subject as your comments and recommendations go against everything I've been taught and practiced. There is a max weight and max PSI for a reason.

[hvfrdave]

I apologize for being dismissive with my reading comprehension remark but you are arguing that I am handing down absolutes and that you don't deal in them while simultaneously telling others with less experience than you that they should never run the tire manufacturers pressure unless they are slabbing it or fully loaded...my bolded statement was either glossed over by you as you appear to be ignoring anyone who does not agree with your take or you missed the meaning.

What my bolded statement means is that you are suggesting that if the less experienced rider runs recommended pressures of the tire manufacturer that they will have less grip available and that they may slide off the road. You then missed that and suggested that I said by running 34/36 that they will explode or delaminate.

I did not say that, the tire engineers indicate that the additional heat in the carcass will result in decreased performance, reduced tire life and possibly a deformed carcass. The tire engineers also state that lowering the tire pressure does not change the rubber compound and therefore can not offer additional grip (you can easily argue that slightly changing the pressures for the street could result in a different or better contact patch and that may increase you feeling of grip with the tire and that is a valid point).

I never said if someone runs less than full pressure they'd slide off the road. Please point out where that was said. It wasn't stated, suggested, 0, nada, didn't happen.

You keep referencing these "tire engineers." I've told you, repeatedly I might add, that I have spoken to tire reps before, multiple. I've spoken with Bridgestone, Metzeler, and Pirelli over the years and what they told me and what you are saying as "Tire engineers" doesn't match up. I've attended many track days, spoken with tire reps, worked with rider coaches, mechanics, and riding schools. Every single one of them has told me to adjust PSI to conditions. And those are temps, road surfaces, riding style (commuting vs. twisties), suspension, weight of the bike, weight of the rider, etc. It's variable, much like suspension settings such as sag, rebound, compression, etc.

A few of us have told you that there is a gross weight rating on our bikes. And that 36/42 is a max PSI rating for these tires, that means maximum NOT MINIMUM. We've also told you that there is a relationship with PSI and grip. We've also stated that none of us believe track PSI is what you should run on the road. So we are now just going in circles so that you can keep trying to be right.

I stated what I run. A few of us have stated also, to learn these things for yourself, don't believe us, or you. Do your own experimentation and learn about PSI, and what it does to grip. My experience says that 36/42 is for when i have my bikes loaded with gear and/or when I'm slabbing it. Over 90% of my riding is hard twisty riding, with the additional 10% being the track. When specifically hopping on one of them to corner, I drop the PSI in both my tires, slightly, to gain some additional grip, which I do in fact get, and what I've experimented with for many, many years, as well as working with tire mfr's to find an ideal setting for my riding style, conditions, speed, etc. You indicate that will give a decrease in performance and to me that is an outright lie. Perhaps you should take your own advice and try it instead of stating a one rule for all that many of us have told you just doesn't work. You are hell bent on this so you go ahead and continue on with it and if that works for you, great. I will say just about everyone here is going to have some experience. If they don't, they've got bigger problems than this jumping on a high powered bike as their first and not knowing what they are doing.

Yes I run lower PSI than the max rating. My tires do not deform, I get an INCREASE in performance and the only negative is slightly less tire life out of the rear tires that I am happy to trade off to gain additional grip. Running lower pressure will not cause you to slide off the road, or the tire to explode or any other such nonsense. Even mentioning that was completely stupid, inaccurate, and slander and I don't think you understand the subject as your comments and recommendations go against everything I've been taught and practiced. There is a max weight and max PSI for a reason.

Great post, its nice to see someone talking some sense.

[CandyRedRC46]

i have had the bike at about 35/40 for the past few days. feels really good. flicks over side to side much easier. also feels more stable while leaned over. not too sure on max grip, but feels good so far.

[YoshiHNS]

Glad to hear. Enjoy the improved ride.

[CandyRedRC46]

I just pulled the trigger on a complete R1 front end conversion. Things are getting interesting.

[Switchblade]

I just pulled the trigger on a complete R1 front end conversion. Things are getting interesting.

Holy Crap Batman. You are serious but I to run 36/42 psi.

[CandyRedRC46]

lol

it seems like i might have possibly hit the jack pot on that front end. all new seals,springs, bearings etc all for the vfr fitment within the last year and 1000 or 2 miles. i am excited.

[bmart]

Tell am amateur, what is that front end going to do for you?

[CandyRedRC46]

mainly brake delink for sheding weight and seperate control of the front and the rear brakes, it is fully adjustable for compression, rebound and preload, also it has already been sprung correctly for the vfr. other things, the R1 brakes are phenominal and radial brakes and upside down forks just look tits.

there is also the possibility of the R1 front wheel being lighter than the vfr wheel. hopefully.

[bmart]

I can see all of that. I've already had the front resprung and valved properly, so I'm sticking with it. I was weary of the linked brakes, but they've been brilliant wet and dry, so no point in changing them.

You're right about Yamaha brakes. They're the best out there for stock. I swapped them onto my Suzuki track bike so that the lever would have some effect. :)

[CandyRedRC46]

i have grown to like them, almost depend on them over time, but being an engineering student, i am not fond of the unnecessary weight and complexity.