Member Contributer mk2davis Posted July 9, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted July 9, 2012 I have a 91 3G that I believe is bone stock. After 4k miles over the last few months, and it's probably time for some requisite work. So I'm looking at an oil change and a new air filter, but I'm looking at more? Contemplating replacing jets and sync'ing carbs along with a PAIR delete. My question is this:with nothing to suspect, is the carb work really worth it? and what can I expect from a PAIR delete? As I understand it, the PAIR recycles burn gases (similar to an automotive EGR). She very reliable, has never left me stranded, I get about 40 +/- mpg running 2 up, and I'm more touring than sport. Everything seems to be stock, no popping, and the only shortcoming I can see is that revving with no load is not as sharp as it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted July 9, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted July 9, 2012 Isn't CA pretty strict with emissions? Might not be able to pass inspections or whatever you might have if you remove the PAIR. I'm not sure if it really makes any difference or not. Just one more thing that the bike can live without. Don't bother jetting it yet unless you know for a fact that your fuelling is off. Just do the carb sync. That will make a noticeable difference. It's not going to give you HP, just run better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afpierce489 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 My philosophy has always been, don't fix what aint broke. If the carbs are fine and you're getting good gas mileage, then don't rejet, just do the sync. You only need to rejet if you mess with another part of the system (i.e. intake/exhaust) and even then you may not have to. As far as the PAIR, I agree with Yoshi. Check with California and make sure you can pass emmissions without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mk2davis Posted July 9, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 9, 2012 I agree with your carb conclusions, and although they aren't as sharp as I'd like, it's not like I race the thing. As far as the PAIR goes, there is no annual inspection I need to pass like there is for cars. Even if the PAIR was deleted, if my gains are only 2-3hp (which I expect if I'm lucky), then I'll probably leave as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted July 9, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted July 9, 2012 I'm pretty sure there's no HP gain from removing the PAIR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mk2davis Posted July 9, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 9, 2012 Then why do people do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted July 9, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted July 9, 2012 To get rid of extra clutter. That's it really. If you're doing serious modifications, it's one less thing in the way. You can't even claim it's to reduce weight, as the whole thing might weight 1 or 2 lbs at most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mk2davis Posted July 9, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 9, 2012 Fascinating. Because I always heard about it in the following context "....slip-on, aftermarket air filter, PAIR deleted . . . " I always thought it was a power thing. Less clutter makes sense too, although not for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted July 9, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted July 9, 2012 To get rid of extra clutter. That's it really. If you're doing serious modifications, it's one less thing in the way. You can't even claim it's to reduce weight, as the whole thing might weight 1 or 2 lbs at most. actually its 4 lbs.. i weighed it all when i i did the depair write up.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted July 9, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted July 9, 2012 To get rid of extra clutter. That's it really. If you're doing serious modifications, it's one less thing in the way. You can't even claim it's to reduce weight, as the whole thing might weight 1 or 2 lbs at most. actually its 4 lbs.. i weighed it all when i i did the depair write up.. Really? That much? Wow. Didn't realize that there was that much weight to all that stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 CA does not do regular inspections on emmisions equipment on bikes as they do on cars and if they do start testing, I think they will do it only on newer bikes and grandfather in all the older ones as pushing people with older bikes to get thier emmisions equipment re-installed will be a gargantuan, costly effort on everyone. Not saying that it's a good idea to take the system off, as technically, you will be breaking the law, so it's your final decision if you want to take the risk. I still have the PAIR system on my bike as I have really never seen any proof of any gains in performance if it is taken off. It only really gets rid of a pound and a hlaf of suff from the bike for most gens...maybe something like a can and a half of soda in your backpack at most.......not really worth the effort, IMO..........Easier taking large quantity dumps before riding instead! Beck 95 VFR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I believe that there IS something to be gained if you're working on a VTEC model. It helps (along with other mods) to smooth out the "lump" at around 6500RPM. Can't see any good reason why you'd do it on a non-VTEC bike, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 After all these years I can't believe there is still all this false information snd voodoo floating around sbout the PAIR system still. The only thing it does it add air into the exhaust to reduce emissions. Period. NO performance gain on any bike anywhere nor does add any power anywhere. The biggest things it does are: - Add a small amount of weight. 3-4 lbs on the older bikes, 1-2 on the newer. - Takes up space. - Makes the exhaust "pop" on decoration, barely noticeable with a stock can, far more noticeable with aftermarket. Removing it is your choice, NOTHING changes with it gone and nothing is added performance wise. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted July 10, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted July 10, 2012 If you have a Power Commander and want to get a "proper" Dynotune, you will have to remove or disable the the PAIR valve. This is due to its affect on the readings on the Dynometer. I have confirmed this with Dynotune, and at least two different dynotuners. Some say it helped the throttle response and stopped any backfiring once it was removed but I don't think there is any real HP gain. Unless someone has a Dyno test result showing the difference with and without the PAIR, and WITHOUT any additional tuning I say any HP increase is only perceived. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer rangemaster Posted July 10, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted July 10, 2012 Even on the carb bikes, ya gotta deactivate the PAIR to get a TRUE A/F ratio reading. Mine's been gone a looong time. I also think it runs cooler and it takes much less time to sync the carbs. Just my limited experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 The last 2 posts are correct, the pair system does affect your air/fuel readings out the exhaust and give "false" readings; I stand somewhat corrected. Again, the system simply takes filtered air from the airbox and injects it into the exhaust to help reduce emissions. Any performance or tuning benifits are purely perceived as the system does not change the way the bike operates. The main reason why people think it does is you generally do it while you are working on something else: jetting changes, valve adjustments, carb sync, plug replacement, etc., that is where the "power" change happens. There used to be tons of dyno sheets years ago where it was proved it make no running difference, there should still be some sitting around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcrwt644 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 To get rid of extra clutter. That's it really. If you're doing serious modifications, it's one less thing in the way. You can't even claim it's to reduce weight, as the whole thing might weight 1 or 2 lbs at most. the older I get, the more I subscribe to this philosophy...that said, the less cr@p (pair) you have the easier it is to work with IMO. Of course, the rear plates are fun...more fun than the front plugs, :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Only reason I depaired my 93 was a few vacuum lines were leaking and it was easier to cap the carb ports off, remove the clutter and gave me an excuse to use my welder to make block off plates. Yes, the rear plates WERE fun! Luckily I was changing the headers at the same time so it was only minimally painful. I think it added atleast 20 hp and dropped 40 lbs. Or was it 0 hp and 4 lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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