Member Contributer realistdreamer Posted April 29, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted April 29, 2012 Today I found out my right front fork seal is ripped and spewing fluid everywhere. This is not a repair I'm going to take on myself and my wife is going to be none to happy about more $$$ after all of my mods to my new-to-me bike. But, since I'm going to take it in and since the fork is going to be in pieces, is there anything INEXPENSIVE that could be done to improve the suspension, increase longevity or better prepare for future upgrades? Only had the bike 2 months and already replaced the R/R, some wiring and the sprockets/chain will be due after the season, so money is a MAJOR consideration. I'm roughly 200lbs with gear and ride alone. Bike probably hasn't had anything done to the forks/fluid since leaving the showroom. i'm not an aggressive rider, nor am I likely to become one. I do like the twisties though. Frankly, just fixing the seal and getting the right oil would likely be a major improvement for me, but figured I'd investigate other cheap enhancements. All reasonable suggestions welcome Ripped Seal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Is there a reason you don't want to do the repair yourself? lack of time, tools or workspace? It truly isn't a difficult job. I did my Kat's fork seals in an afternoon and upgraded to Ohlins springs and a heavier oil at the same time for under $200. And that included the cost of buying a small impact gun on sale to help with the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer realistdreamer Posted April 30, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 30, 2012 No space, no tools and a severe fear of working on components that can be done improperly and cause me headaches for months. I'm a condo dweller with some hand tools and no electric where the bike lives. I've done the R/R and the electrical upgrades, but I think I'll take a pass on this one. I also think I want to get someone who has done this before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 You should really do both forks, even though the seal may still be good in the other fork, they will fail one soon after the other, another reason is the mis match of oil and oil heights. But if you dont replace the seal in the left leg, Id atleast have the oil changed in it to match the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer realistdreamer Posted April 30, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 30, 2012 Definitely getting seals and oil replaced on both sides. I would be beside myself if I got the right fixed and the left failed a week later. As for mods, should I change the springs/valving/shims/oil? Based on oil damage, looks like I'll be getting EBC HHs too. I know NOTHING about this stuff, but I'm reading Total Control by Lee Parks. I'm 200lbs and I get the feel the bike is made for a lighter rider. I've been bottoming on front and rear, but front might have been due to the leak. I was thinking a 929 is my future, but I haven't even explored the adjustments yet. Right now I just want the front sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 If the bike was working okay the way it was, stay stock, unless you are okay with doubling your expense from doing this repair, Id be clear as to what oil you want in there, If its Honda SS8 , you wouldnt want Honda SS7 cause its thinner, But I dont know what stock oil weight is on the 5 gen, Im assuming its SS8 like the 6th gen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer realistdreamer Posted April 30, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 30, 2012 Definitely rebuild only. Spring/Oil/Shim/Valve recommendations??? My riding style is freeway to church and then twisties after church. Mostly we'll maintained roads. I will not be doing track days, nor will I be dragging knees (except for fun). No passengers for at least a year while I get to know the bike. Had a VF500F before and loved it with stock setup (didn't know any better). Prefer plush as long as I'm not bottoming and it can handle imperfections mid-turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 If you're doing forks maybe RaceTech Gold Valve Cartridge Emulators? Honestly don't know the price (purchased my VFR with them) but they do stiffen the front suspension a bit more than stock, but not too much. I honestly like them and they compliment the rest of my bike and riding style well. Might be something to explore. http://www.racetech.com/HTML_FILES/EMULATORGV.HTML Again I don't know the price so you might have to do a bit of investigating but I'd say its worth it! -Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer carlgustav Posted April 30, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted April 30, 2012 And if you don't want to go as far ($) as emulators, try just springs. My 6th gen springs were way too soft for 'American' sized riders (maybe they all are?). The guy doing the work bumped them up to .95 from something under .90 (.86 I think). Also changed seals, fluid, etc. Made a big difference. I would point out that in my case, I've also gone a step up from the stock shock to a lower end Penske that really helped too. So the total result may be more than you'll feel from just the front end work. But hey, every little bit helps :^D ... ACE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted April 30, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted April 30, 2012 I'm having my 2009 front and rear suspension redone by Jamie Daugherty Motorsports (He's a forum member). I'll be sending in an OFE rear shock from a 2007 VFR800 ABS (remote adjustable pre-load), which he'll be re valving and upgrading the spring. At the same time he'll be putting together a kit for the front and I'll be installing that myself. Since this is my commuter bike I would rather not have to send in the forks if I can avoid it. I'm more concerned with shipping issues, loss, damage, etc., than inconvenience. Since I still have the 09 rear shock in place I'm not too worried about sending that in, I'll insure in case it gets lost. A little info on me, I'm ~170 lbs with riding gear on but the additional weight I carry varies, so he will be changing the spring and valving to something more appropriate to the way I ride. Mostly slab/commuting with the occasional passenger (read: additional weight) and weekend canyon riding. I'm doing both ends at once so they will be better matched to one another. That being said, not knowing how long the right fork was leaking, it may be hard to tell how your suspension really was performing for you, since it wasn't always 100%. So to say it wasn't to your liking may be attributed to this issue or to the stock setup. I've always heard people complain about how under sprung the VFR is, so that may help you decide on at least getting new springs. I hope this helps with your question. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 If money is tight, then a fork revalve doesn't sound affordable at this time. You can use slightly heavier fork oil, which will firm up the ride a little. OR, use the stock recommended oil weight, and run the level 10mm higher so the fork is a little more progressive in its stroke. THAT is as inexpensive as it gets. Sorry, but true. Don't forget to check the tubes for nicks and hit any imperfections with SUPER fine emery cloth to get any raised edges smoothed out, or they will tear up the new seal. Sometimes a rock strike on the polished fork tube can cause a nick which eats the seal. Tell your wife the bike makes you happy, and of course, she WANTS you to be happy, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 If you are bottoming the stock suspension, did you increase the preload front and rear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MBrane Posted April 30, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted April 30, 2012 I would at least have the springs replaced with something more appropriate for your weight. The stock springs are way too soft for a 200lb rider. My fork seals last much longer since I became obsessive about keeping the tubes clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 If you do decide to "spring" the extra cash (sorry), then Sonic probably has your best deal. 80 bucks. They have a spring rate calculator on their site. http://www.sonicsprings.com And if you do go with heavier springs, then a slightly thicker fork oil will be needed, of course assuming a revalve is also out of your budget. 10 weight mIght be a good place to start. IIRC, the stock fluid is 7.5wt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer realistdreamer Posted April 30, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 30, 2012 Thanks everyone. I take her in in the morning. They have a suspension tech, but mostly do work for track racers. They even do pit crew work. I'll probably have to talk them down from some harsh stiff setup, but they should know what they're doing and they have a rep for working with frugal chaps such as myself. I think I'm going to replace the springs and oil and call it a day. Unless I get a good deal on revalving that is. Given that I'm not doing the rear at the same time and I haven't even played with the adjustments, I think that'll be a good compromise for my wallet. I'll let you know how it goes. I'll probably do the 929 next year when my bank account is replenished and take things from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted April 30, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted April 30, 2012 Good on ya to take it to a shop, better to know one's realities..... I only made the suspension changes on my bike when I could borrow a garage for a while over winter My regular garage is the front garden...... 200lbs with gear on does not sound you are "out of spec" to me. Honda engineered (and priced no doubt) components to meet a wide variety of riders. I was very happy with my ride for years. I did notice an increase in ride quality after the upgrades I made. The bike shop (if qualified) should be able to set reasonable sag/balance front rear suspension. I say reasonable becasue I believe (YMMV) you can spend decades (and worries) chasing the 'perfect' one. If it feels right, marry her leave it as is In your shoes I would ask for indeed a 10mm higher oil level and take some extra oil home. Ride the bike for a while. If you do not like the ride, get a plastic syringe, put a bit of plactic tubing on, unscrew the caps (watch the thin metal ring), suck out a measured qty (or add) and reassemble. Start saving pennies, cos next may be your next outlay is your rear shock. You say it bottoms out; either the setting are wrong or it is shot Not sure on the 5th Gen, but the 4th gen OEM does not use the full length available for springs, it uses a spacer. I will let the techies here expalin why this is flawed.... As for spending money on a bike, here's a quote from the IOM DVD "you only get one lap, why not make it a good one?" (Mental note to me: give flowers more often to my wife..... "your bike jacket looks a bit old, should you not buy a new one? Your helmet is what? 4-5 years old? HIGH time to buy a new one...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer realistdreamer Posted April 30, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 30, 2012 Suspension guy is at the track today so counterpart suggested I order the brake pads and seal kit to get them coming. Come in tomorrow to test sag with suspension guy to see if springs needed. I suggested I order parts because markup seemed high. We'll see after shipping costs what's better. Honda seal kit and ebc hh for both front. Anything else? Racetech vs. Sonic springs? Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayarearider Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 If you want another opinion, here's a shop that "Road Rider" in San Jose referred me to (just up the street from them). http://superbikeperformance.com/ I thought there was another local called "Aftershocks" or something but can't find them. I'm about 5 k miles from my next service and will be looking for a new tech since the passing of Lindemann Engineering (RIP) so I'll be in market. Or I may do the fluid flush myself since I removed and replaced the forks last time. At the time that LE did mine and our talk of my riding habits (similar to yours) he suggested springs and fluid only. (RaceTech valves would be overkill for the applicaton) I did replace the rear shock at the time and have been happy with the results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 The last time I had race tech revalve forks with gold valves, and that was 15 years ago, Im thinking it was around $300. Really I thought a waste of money, in comparsion to my modification set up, Ill never waste money on race tech again. Unless they come on site with a specialist to revalve 5 or 6 times till they get it right. They arent going to do that, but most bone heads know squat about setup, so even alittle better, they are like WOW!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MBrane Posted May 1, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted May 1, 2012 And if you do go with heavier springs, then a slightly thicker fork oil will be needed, of course assuming a revalve is also out of your budget. 10 weight mIght be a good place to start. IIRC, the stock fluid is 7.5wt. Actually the stock fluid is 10wt. I'm now down to 7.5 with .95 springs, and it feels pretty good. Definitely needs more comp, and less rebound damping though. 10wt didn't feel bad, but 7.5 is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monk Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I understand that brands of fork oils wt. vary even with the same numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MBrane Posted May 1, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted May 1, 2012 I understand that brands of fork oils wt. vary even with the same numbers. Last two changes were same oil (Red Line) just different weights. Yes I had to mix the 7.5 myself since they only sell 5 and 10. I use straight 5 in viffergyrl's, and it works fine with the stock springs. From my research The Red Line fluid is very close to the stock Honda/Showa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monk Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I understand that brands of fork oils wt. vary even with the same numbers. Last two changes were same oil (Red Line) just different weights. Yes I had to mix the 7.5 myself since they only sell 5 and 10. I use straight 5 in viffergyrl's, and it works fine with the stock springs. From my research The Red Line fluid is very close to the stock Honda/Showa. Sounds like you may be into oils as some are into wine, which is great........ The only reason I bring up the brands is for the ppl that might wonder why theirs didn't come out the same when they used a recommended wt. I think that when fork oil wts. are listed the brand should be listed as well, to keep things consistent. http://www.peterverdone.com/wiki/index.php?title=Suspension_Fluid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MBrane Posted May 1, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted May 1, 2012 I was using Mobil 1 ATF. It worked great, but is now unobtanium around these parts. Too bad as it was cheap, and available at the local auto supply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 The viscosities do vary amongst brands of the same weight, and in cartridge forks, it does make a significant difference if testing the edge of performance differences. Lets take 10 weight Maxima in comparison to Honda SS8 ten weight, the Maxima is thinner, and it does show up in the fork action, as the Maxima runs through the travel quicker as a result, and easier bottoming as a result. using the same oil height or even more oil height does not equal SS8's flow through the orifices. Point is, there is a considerable difference. Id be more apt to run Maxima's 15 weight for an SS8 equivilent, even though it might be on the thicker side of ss8. But my experience over 20 years of upside down cartridge forks, changing to a different oil, varies the whole platform enough to effect set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.