Gasoline

[Bent]

Found a station near the house that sells 100% gasoline and have been using it in all our vehicles for a few months now. There's also a station that sells the same at the end of one of my usual loop rides. My review on pure gas says that ethanol in gas produces less hp and 10 to 15% less mileage. Ethanol sucks. So do high food prices.... :beer:

[YoshiHNS]

I'll have to remember to see what the pumps say about ethanol. My gas mileage seriously dropped since I came out to rochester. Was good in ohio and Colorado. I remember seeing separate pumps for gas with ethanol and regular gas during the Summit. Never used the ethanol one on my bike out in CO, and was getting my usual ~50mpg. Then come back to NY and it's down to ~40.

[Bent]

I'll have to remember to see what the pumps say about ethanol. My gas mileage seriously dropped since I came out to rochester. Was good in ohio and Colorado. I remember seeing separate pumps for gas with ethanol and regular gas during the Summit. Never used the ethanol one on my bike out in CO, and was getting my usual ~50mpg. Then come back to NY and it's down to ~40.

I'm beginning to see more and more non-ethanol stations. Traveled all the way to Louisiana and back in the cage a few weeks ago and used gasoline the entire trip. I hope this continues.

[SEBSPEED]

I hope so too, around here everything is 10% ethanol. Last year, I took my wife to Vermont and we got a tankful of pure gas up there, bike ran great and got more mileage as well.

[Bent]

I hope so too, around here everything is 10% ethanol. Last year, I took my wife to Vermont and we got a tankful of pure gas up there, bike ran great and got more mileage as well.

You could always ride down here when you need gas..... :mellow:

[SEBSPEED]

I hope so too, around here everything is 10% ethanol. Last year, I took my wife to Vermont and we got a tankful of pure gas up there, bike ran great and got more mileage as well.

You could always ride down here when you need gas..... :mellow:

Beans & rice, Creole style? :excl: :huh: :blush:

[Bent]

I hope so too, around here everything is 10% ethanol. Last year, I took my wife to Vermont and we got a tankful of pure gas up there, bike ran great and got more mileage as well.

You could always ride down here when you need gas..... :blush:

Beans & rice, Creole style? :excl: :blush: :huh:

That's what I had for supper Sunday night as a matter of fact. :mellow:

Goes good with gasoline... :excl:

[HispanicSlammer]

Up here they have 85 octane bacause of the elevation, then they add 10% ethenol - but you dont get any price break for using it, sort of forced on you come winter since its law in winter. Most stations carry it year around and I suspect even the pumps without the sticker have it, all the gas here comes out of the same pipeline. I am not sure where they add the ethenol - before or after its piped out here. There is a huge refinery in Commerce City that supplies most of Denver and the surrounding area.

[Guest]

I prefer the pure gas, it's getting harder and harder to find around here.

[Bent]

Actually, I'm starting to see more pure gas in different parts of the country. The owner of my local station (off brand but who cares) says he has a choice of buying with or without ethanol and says pure gas actually costs a little more but his retail prices compared to brand name stations is about a dime cheaper. His pure gas runs noticeably better in all my vehicles. Ethanol is all about politics. :biggrin:

[YoshiHNS]

Ethanol is about stretching our fuel supply, but with the flaw that you use more fuel with ethanol than without. So it really is a political thing.

[mechdziner714]

Not to mention all the petrol that goes into producing the ethanol. Plus the fact we are burning a foodsource makes the whole ethanol thing really innefficient. Is the use of methanol mandated by the gov? If not WTF are they doing it? You cant convince me that using ethanol derrived from corn is "stretching" the amount of oil we use.

[Macs06VFR]

I thought a minimum 10% ethanol blend was gov't mandated a few years back? In part, for EPA reasons too? I'm pretty sure ethanol is not even close to cost-effective.

A buddy of mine works in a small engine repair shop and swears the E85 gas is killing baby carburators (in weed whackers, saws, etc.)

I'd rather have pure gas. Not sure I can even get it.

[Bent]

Not to mention all the petrol that goes into producing the ethanol. Plus the fact we are burning a foodsource makes the whole ethanol thing really innefficient. Is the use of methanol mandated by the gov? If not WTF are they doing it? You cant convince me that using ethanol derrived from corn is "stretching" the amount of oil we use.

It takes more BTU's of energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than BTU's of energy in the gallon of ethanol....FACT. Price a box of corn flakes or anything else in a grocery store. Ethanol is one of many reasons your food costs more. The manufacture of ethanol is subsidized by the gubment and the energy companies put it in gasoline to keep from getting pounded even more by "everyone and their pet dog". Since there is not a fuel shortage, at the moment, I suspect pure gasoline is creeping back into the system BECAUSE IT IS CHEAPER THAN ETHANOL......today. BTW, what was determined to be the primary cause of the ridiculous 4 buck per gallon gasoline.....speculation.

There is NO SHORTAGE of identified oil or gas reserves on this planet today and for a long long long time into the future. Proven oil and gas reserves have never been higher since they have been used as a fuel by mankind. THERE IS a severe shortage of refining capacity in this country and a lack of drilling of known reserves in this country, again, due to political influences. My family is in the oil and gas exploration business and the general population has no clue of how that industry works or even what it means. Hell yea, ethanol is political. Other than that, all I know how to do is ride motorcycles and that they run better on gasoline than corn. :blink:

[Knife]

Not to mention all the petrol that goes into producing the ethanol. Plus the fact we are burning a foodsource makes the whole ethanol thing really innefficient. Is the use of methanol mandated by the gov? If not WTF are they doing it? You cant convince me that using ethanol derrived from corn is "stretching" the amount of oil we use.

It takes more BTU's of energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than BTU's of energy in the gallon of ethanol....FACT. Price a box of corn flakes or anything else in a grocery store. Ethanol is one of many reasons your food costs more. The manufacture of ethanol is subsidized by the gubment and the energy companies put it in gasoline to keep from getting pounded even more by "everyone and their pet dog". Since there is not a fuel shortage, at the moment, I suspect pure gasoline is creeping back into the system BECAUSE IT IS CHEAPER THAN ETHANOL......today. BTW, what was determined to be the primary cause of the ridiculous 4 buck per gallon gasoline.....speculation.

There is NO SHORTAGE of identified oil or gas reserves on this planet today and for a long long long time into the future. Proven oil and gas reserves have never been higher since they have been used as a fuel by mankind. THERE IS a severe shortage of refining capacity in this country and a lack of drilling of known reserves in this country, again, due to political influences. My family is in the oil and gas exploration business and the general population has no clue of how that industry works or even what it means. Hell yea, ethanol is political. Other than that, all I know how to do is ride motorcycles and that they run better on gasoline than corn. :blink:

It was a "feel good" move. Ignorant and harmful none-the-less. You can thank the environmental wackos (these people are NOT environmentalists).

[Bent]

Not to mention all the petrol that goes into producing the ethanol. Plus the fact we are burning a foodsource makes the whole ethanol thing really innefficient. Is the use of methanol mandated by the gov? If not WTF are they doing it? You cant convince me that using ethanol derrived from corn is "stretching" the amount of oil we use.

It takes more BTU's of energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than BTU's of energy in the gallon of ethanol....FACT. Price a box of corn flakes or anything else in a grocery store. Ethanol is one of many reasons your food costs more. The manufacture of ethanol is subsidized by the gubment and the energy companies put it in gasoline to keep from getting pounded even more by "everyone and their pet dog". Since there is not a fuel shortage, at the moment, I suspect pure gasoline is creeping back into the system BECAUSE IT IS CHEAPER THAN ETHANOL......today. BTW, what was determined to be the primary cause of the ridiculous 4 buck per gallon gasoline.....speculation.

There is NO SHORTAGE of identified oil or gas reserves on this planet today and for a long long long time into the future. Proven oil and gas reserves have never been higher since they have been used as a fuel by mankind. THERE IS a severe shortage of refining capacity in this country and a lack of drilling of known reserves in this country, again, due to political influences. My family is in the oil and gas exploration business and the general population has no clue of how that industry works or even what it means. Hell yea, ethanol is political. Other than that, all I know how to do is ride motorcycles and that they run better on gasoline than corn.

It was a "feel good" move. Ignorant and harmful none-the-less. You can thank the environmental wackos (these people are NOT environmentalists).

Truer words were never typed.

[Lee 2002]

National Geographic did a really nice write-up on Ethanol last year.

As mentioned above, they said grain based Ethanol is a losers game. More petroleum is used in making the ethanol than it saves on the consumer end.

They did note one bright spot in South America where sugar cane was used (as opposed to grain). And they also said that algae has great potential by harvesting sunlight that falls on the ocean.

But my Mom's cousin in Missouri thinks it is the greatest thing since sliced bread..... he is a BIG TIME corn farmer. He loves the higher prices.

[Bent]

National Geographic did a really nice write-up on Ethanol last year.

As mentioned above, they said grain based Ethanol is a losers game. More petroleum is used in making the ethanol than it saves on the consumer end.

They did note one bright spot in South America where sugar cane was used (as opposed to grain). And they also said that algae has great potential by harvesting sunlight that falls on the ocean.

But my Mom's cousin in Missouri thinks it is the greatest thing since sliced bread..... he is a BIG TIME corn farmer. He loves the higher prices.

Bet he loves his annual crop planting / not planting government subsidies too....

[IntAceptor]

Ethanol is about stretching our fuel supply, but with the flaw that you use more fuel with ethanol than without. So it really is a political thing.

AAAhhhh but using it feels as good as hugging a tree :warranty:

[Bent]

Ethanol is about stretching our fuel supply, but with the flaw that you use more fuel with ethanol than without. So it really is a political thing.

AAAhhhh but using it feels as good as hugging a tree :fing02:

You've been in the woods too long....try hugging a foxy girl.... :happy: :warranty:

[Guest]

Ethanol blends in gasoline should really not cause a decrease in power output of the engine. Gas with an octane rating of 87 should perform the same regardless of the octane booster used.

In addition to the reasons posted above, ethanol is in gasoline more now because it is largely replacing MTBE as an oxygenate and octane booster. MTBE is extremely toxic to the environment - very small amounts of it can contaminate a surprisingly vast amount of groundwater when leaked from underground storage tanks (i.e. gas stations). Ethanol is very toxic as well and contaminates groundwater about as readily as MTBE, however it biodegrades considerably faster than MTBE. I work in the environmental consulting industry, and it's really incredible how a small leak in a gas tank years and years ago now has an MTBE plume that extends quite some distance and barely degrades over time.

Ethanol however WILL cause a decrease in mileage. E10 simply has less BTUs per gallon than pure gasoline. Ethanol is also fairly corrosive to seals and gaskets in older engines. E10 gasoline can also undergo phase-separation if water is introduced in relatively small percentages (the ethanol is water soluble, so if enough water gets in the ethanol-blended gasoline the ethanol will separate out and leave you with an extremely poor octane gasoline).

As far as using ethanol in gasoline, I could care less. EXCEPT for the fact that the price doesn't reflect the decrease in BTUs/mileage!!! Selling fuel $ per BTU would be more appropriate than $ per gallon.

[Bent]

Ethanol blends in gasoline should really not cause a decrease in power output of the engine. Gas with an octane rating of 87 should perform the same regardless of the octane booster used.

In addition to the reasons posted above, ethanol is in gasoline more now because it is largely replacing MTBE as an oxygenate and octane booster. MTBE is extremely toxic to the environment - very small amounts of it can contaminate a surprisingly vast amount of groundwater when leaked from underground storage tanks (i.e. gas stations). Ethanol is very toxic as well and contaminates groundwater about as readily as MTBE, however it biodegrades considerably faster than MTBE. I work in the environmental consulting industry, and it's really incredible how a small leak in a gas tank years and years ago now has an MTBE plume that extends quite some distance and barely degrades over time.

Ethanol however WILL cause a decrease in mileage. E10 simply has less BTUs per gallon than pure gasoline. Ethanol is also fairly corrosive to seals and gaskets in older engines. E10 gasoline can also undergo phase-separation if water is introduced in relatively small percentages (the ethanol is water soluble, so if enough water gets in the ethanol-blended gasoline the ethanol will separate out and leave you with an extremely poor octane gasoline).

As far as using ethanol in gasoline, I could care less. EXCEPT for the fact that the price doesn't reflect the decrease in BTUs/mileage!!! Selling fuel $ per BTU would be more appropriate than $ per gallon.

A BTU is a unit of energy measurement. Since there are fewer BTU's of energy available in a given volume of gasoline containing ethanol, it's just math that states there will be less power available from a given volume of fuel containing ethanol.

I can feel this increased power in my bike as well as my cars. More BTU's of energy available per volume unit explains why I have CALCULATED a fuel mileage increase of 10 to 15 percent in everything I use pure gasoline in.

[skuuter]

My Wife's Store only has 10% ethynol gasoline now, as does almost all of the places here. Edwards Oil that owns the 52 QUIK MARTS is the largest SHELL/PHILLIPS 66 Distributor in Northern, Al, and Southern Middle Tn. They sell these brands to the other Stores also. Some Stores they service sell the 10% mixture, but "illegally" don't post it..... :fing02: Now, for sure by the seminars attended and booklets studied by my Wife (and Yours truely if it comes home... ),and my own personal experience...Gas Mileage will go down, but, if it's nice, fresh, gasoline, power should be just a "tick" better, and engine temps run cooler. Why Race cars on Methanol use more fuel, require larger jets, but run cooler, and put out more power than on gasoline, same for mixing the two. It is a mandated by the U.S. Government that all gasoline will have it eventually....gettin' hard for Her parent company to even get a batch of straight gasoline right now. Water dillution is the worst part of the 10% ethynol gasoline, even requires totally different pump filters that have to be changed every week to trap the water. Not good to store ethynol mixture gasoline in cans for any period of time, and never in metal containers. Also better to keep a full tank on Fall and Spring Days when there is a more than 20 degree temp change between day and night....I, too, wish "THEY" had left it alone, but "THEY" didn't...might as well make the most of it...... :beer: :blush:

[skuuter]

My Wife's Store only has 10% ethynol gasoline now, as does almost all of the places here. Edwards Oil that owns the 52 QUIK MARTS is the largest SHELL/PHILLIPS 66 Distributor in Northern, Al, and Southern Middle Tn. They sell these brands to the other Stores also. Some Stores they service sell the 10% mixture, but "illegally" don't post it..... :fing02: Now, for sure by the seminars attended and booklets studied by my Wife (and Yours truely if it comes home... :491: ),and my own personal experience...Gas Mileage will go down, but, if it's nice, fresh, gasoline, power should be just a "tick" better, and engine temps run cooler. Why Race cars on Methanol use more fuel, require larger jets, but run cooler, and put out more power than on gasoline, same for mixing the two. It is a mandated by the U.S. Government that all gasoline will have it eventually....gettin' hard for Her parent company to even get a batch of straight gasoline right now. Water dillution is the worst part of the 10% ethynol gasoline, even requires totally different pump filters that have to be changed every week to trap the water. Not good to store ethynol mixture gasoline in cans for any period of time, and never in metal containers. Also better to keep a full tank on Fall and Spring Days when there is a more than 20 degree temp change between day and night....I, too, wish "THEY" had left it alone, but "THEY" didn't...might as well make the most of it...... :beer: :beer:

I really find it difficult personally to "feel" any power difference between the gasolines in my larger motorcycles..."BUT"...in a 50cc Ruckus where You run pegged throttles 95% of the time, the 10% ethynol gasoline definetly puts out more power, and about a 2 mph gain on top end (41 to 43 mph... )and runs cooler head temps, but with about a 1.5 to 2 mpg loss in mileage..... :blush:

[Guest]

A BTU is a unit of energy measurement. Since there are fewer BTU's of energy available in a given volume of gasoline containing ethanol, it's just math that states there will be less power available from a given volume of fuel containing ethanol.

I can feel this increased power in my bike as well as my cars. More BTU's of energy available per volume unit explains why I have CALCULATED a fuel mileage increase of 10 to 15 percent in everything I use pure gasoline in.

But horsepower is BTU/time... so an engine making the same power over the same time will require more fuel if it has a lower BTU.

I may have just confused myself? :fing02: