A Question For Elka Owners:

[enzed_viffer]

After fitting the Elka 2-way shock to my bike whenever it was (late 2007?), then fitting new Sonic springs to the front end, I've had quite a bit of minor drama lately gettng my suspension fettled to my satisfaction. After having the local Ohlins guru modofy the forks with new seals, Racetech and Ohlins internals, I then had to send them back again to have them redone, as the spring rate (and therefore damping setup) was too hard. It's now really good, with Ohlins 0.90kg/mm springs, super slippery Ohlins oil (NZ$52/litre! :unsure: ), and feeling very plush over the rutted goat tracks that pass as secondary highways. The rear shock is another story, and it seems to be perhaps unsettling the front end at times.

Don't get me wrong - it's MUCH better than the Showa it replaced, but I'm having some difficulty adjusting it to give a compliant ride. Most of that may just be my uneducated seatometer, and some of it is no doubt due to having more adjustments than the Showa afforded.

So have you VFR owners who have replaced the OEM shock with an Elka been able to dial it in so that it's set up satisfactorily? How many have just installed it and made minimal adjustments, if any? Are you satisfied with its performance? Do you have any handy tips to help me (and perhaps others) set things up properly?

At the moment, it's looking like the NZ$250 I 'saved' over buying an Ohlins locally has been no saving at all, unless I can work out how to adjust the Elka properly, if it's possible.

[mechdziner714]

I cant say mine is setup ideally as I am no expert on how to set it up, or any other shock for that matter. But I will say the Elka has been really good to me and I push it pretty hard at times. I dont think the Ohlins is much if any better , or easier to set up. Every shock/suspension needs a good set up to work well. Will the local Ohlins guy not help because its not an Ohlins shock? I would find a good suspension guru to help you set it up properly. You wont be happy w/ an Ohlins that not set up properly either.

[SAFE-T]

The 2-way has preload and low-speed compression adjustability. Set the sag with preload and set the compression to it's lowest setting and then add one click at a time until you find a setting that works.

It might also be a problem with high-speed compression, which you can't adjust manually on that shock. The spring rate may also be too high - I've read lots of comments from people who put in the "recommended" higher rate springs and found them to be too harsh.

[enzed_viffer]

The 2-way has preload and low-speed compression adjustability. Set the sag with preload and set the compression to it's lowest setting and then add one click at a time until you find a setting that works.

That's what I did - the preload is right, the rebound was in the middle (now one click to the 'Slow" side of middle), and I started off with compression set to minimum (now 3 or 4 clicks in). It's not bad, but not quite right yet either. Still much better than the Showa.

It might also be a problem with high-speed compression, which you can't adjust manually on that shock. The spring rate may also be too high - I've read lots of comments from people who put in the "recommended" higher rate springs and found them to be too harsh.

I have no idea what spring it has in it - is it marked? Can I find out from Elka?

The Ohlins guru will revalve it for me if necessary. He's been pretty good - he swapped my Sonic 0.95 springs for Ohlins 0.90s and gave me a susbstantial rebate on them. The Sonics are now in an SV650.

He suggested I do some more investigation, then if it looks like the valving or springs are wrong, ask Elka to supply some new bits and he'll fit them.

I'm pretty sure he's got one of those suspension analysis machines, so he should be able to work out what's going on. The only problem is he's over 5 hours away from here.

If I'd gone with getting him to do the whole job in the first place, it would've ended up costing me around the same, but the difference is, if the initial setup proved to be not quite right, all subsequent adjustments, part swaps, etc. are free of charge. As it is, he's already refettled my forks for the cost of the spring swap and some fresh oil (the oil that was in there was OLD - it had been in there nearly a fortnight ).

[dutchinterceptor]

I honestly bolted up my 3-way, set the sag, put the compression adjusters in the middle and took off. I've tweaked the low and high speed a time or two but otherwise haven't changed much. It feels remarkably better than the original shock. I probably have around 5k-6k on the shock so far and haven't pushed it really hard in the twisties since most of my riding has just been touring lately. I was hoping I could make it to a track day sometime and get one of their suspension gurus to check it out.

I agree with what Safe-T mentioned...start at the lowest and work your way up till it feels good.

[VFR Capt.Bob]

I'm not 100% sold on the Elka shock 3/way I bought in 2007. I've had the forks completely rebuilt by Race Tech and they are working perfectly. On fast, imperfect canyon roads the back end gets pogoing sometimes especially when going down hill. On the track at high speeds? No problems at all. I'm still trying to dial it in. Mine seems to like a lot of rebound damping to settle it down. Maybe too much spring. Anybody had theirs serviced since?

[CornerCarver]

I was in the Wilburs group buy and modded my forks with F3 internals and gold valves to go with the new rear shock.

I had the shock set up for spirited two up riding and provided the weights (with gear) and other info to have Elka set up the shock in that manner.

This has always been a good base setting for me in the past.

In November of 2007 I did STT weekend at a track over in South Carolina. I had the Ohlins guy set up my suspension. The soonest I could get in to see him was after the third third session on the first day.

It took him a minute to realize what was different about the front forks and once I related to him all the mods performed to both ends he and his assistant set it up. They set the sag (it was very close but...) then they were adjusting and bouncing the suspension, measuring other things and making small tweaks. I could not believe that a going to set my suspension by just bouncing my bike. He stated that there was not much discernable difference with the high and low speed compression settings when bottomed or backed all of the way out and chided me for not popping for an Ohlins.

I told him if his set up was any good that when I put the RC-51 forks on I would probably go with an Ohlins rear shock. We talked about a set of Ohlins forks and laughed about a VFR at a track day.

THe adjustments made to the suspsension were amazing. It was night and day better than the showa out of the box but there was a section at this track that had the front end unloading and being pushed a little by the rear. That feeling was completely gone. On the second day I had to brake hard for a guy who overshot the entrance to a turn I just felt that if the suspension had still been the way I had set when I rolled it of the trailer I would have lost the front end.

THey say the best you know is the best you have ridden and Ohlins may be better than Wilburs or Elka but someone good should be able to adjust the suspension so that are more than satisfied with how it performs compared to stock. Beyond that you may have been ahead by have your local guy set up an Ohlins for you instead.

Let us know how things go what additional adjustments you make.

keith

[enzed_viffer]

Thanks for that, cornercarver.

Interesting what you said about the Ohlins guys "bouncing the bike" and making adjustments based on that. The Ohlins guy said he wanted a chance to do that too - I thought "Pffft... as if that's gonna help!" Evidently, it probably will.

He also said if the internal damping (springs in the relief valve and orifice sizes, etc. ) and spring rate are wrong, then external adjusters are not going to be able to get things set up right, as they usually only afford a 5% adjustment at most. Thus, it's really critical getting the right spring in the first place, and damping that is close to what's required.

This morning it felt OKish on the commute to work, but that's all on the motorway (freeway) and 30mph streets, so it's not the whole story. Having a front end that's behaving itself made a big difference. However, after so long having had a stiffly-sprung front end, it now feels much more vague. I guess you can't have it both ways, and I'll get used to it. I need to keep in mind too that even if the setup's not perfect, it's MILES better than stock. :beer:

I bought the Elka because I thought I couldn't afford an Ohlins. FWIW, by the time I paid for freight (25% of the ticket), I saved NZ$250 over an Ohlins (NZ$1000 vs NZ$1250). If I take off the (essentially) wasted cost of the Sonic springs and oil, having to send my forks away twice, and all the monkeying around, I would've been better off to have just taken or shipped my bike to them, and had them fettle the whole thing. The total would've been about the same, and I would've got it set up perfectly for me and for the riding I do on NZ roads, and any future adjustments or mods would've been free of charge. As it is, to get the Elka serviced it will have to go to them, so I'm going to have to deal with them anyway.

[jasonsmith]

After fitting the Elka 2-way shock to my bike whenever it was (late 2007?), then fitting new Sonic springs to the front end, I've had quite a bit of minor drama lately gettng my suspension fettled to my satisfaction. After having the local Ohlins guru modofy the forks with new seals, Racetech and Ohlins internals, I then had to send them back again to have them redone, as the spring rate (and therefore damping setup) was too hard. It's now really good, with Ohlins 0.90kg/mm springs, super slippery Ohlins oil (NZ$52/litre! :blush: ), and feeling very plush over the rutted goat tracks that pass as secondary highways. The rear shock is another story, and it seems to be perhaps unsettling the front end at times.

Don't get me wrong - it's MUCH better than the Showa it replaced, but I'm having some difficulty adjusting it to give a compliant ride. Most of that may just be my uneducated seatometer, and some of it is no doubt due to having more adjustments than the Showa afforded.

So have you VFR owners who have replaced the OEM shock with an Elka been able to dial it in so that it's set up satisfactorily? How many have just installed it and made minimal adjustments, if any? Are you satisfied with its performance? Do you have any handy tips to help me (and perhaps others) set things up properly?

At the moment, it's looking like the NZ$250 I 'saved' over buying an Ohlins locally has been no saving at all, unless I can work out how to adjust the Elka properly, if it's possible.

I cant say mine is setup ideally as I am no expert on how to set it up, or any other shock for that matter. But I will say the Elka has been really good to me and I push it pretty hard at times. I dont think the Ohlins is much if any better , or easier to set up. Every shock/suspension needs a good set up to work well. Will the local Ohlins guy not help because its not an Ohlins shock? I would find a good suspension guru to help you set it up properly. You wont be happy w/ an Ohlins that not set up properly either.

I'm not 100% sold on the Elka shock 3/way I bought in 2007. I've had the forks completely rebuilt by Race Tech and they are working perfectly. On fast, imperfect canyon roads the back end gets pogoing sometimes especially when going down hill. On the track at high speeds? No problems at all. I'm still trying to dial it in. Mine seems to like a lot of rebound damping to settle it down. Maybe too much spring. Anybody had theirs serviced since?

Being close to getting an Elka for my rear and re-springing my front this is a very interesting thread so far. It's tough though to make any sense of what's going on without knowing your entire setup. Like BR found out, the front and rear balance is very important. What front and rear spring rates were you fellas using and what do you guys weigh? Is it possible that the ordered spring rates weren't bang on from the beginning? This would make it very difficult to dial in IMO.

@Capt.Bob - Is it possible that your front end may be unloading the rear to cause it to just bounce or "pogo" around? Too stiff spring in the rear compared to the front?

[enzed_viffer]

Being close to getting an Elka for my rear and re-springing my front this is a very interesting thread so far. It's tough though to make any sense of what's going on without knowing your entire setup. Like BR found out, the front and rear balance is very important. What front and rear spring rates were you fellas using and what do you guys weigh?

I weigh 87kg (about 191 poondz). Front springs are 0.90kg/mm AFAIK.

I have no idea what the Elka spring rate is (but would like to know). I don't think it's set up properly yet; I kinda gave up because it was too hard to get right. The preload's right (and I think the spring is fine), and I think the rebound damping's pretty close to what it should be. The trouble I have (as my derriere isn't educated enough) is that I find it hard to tell if a setting is better/worse than the previous one. I spent about an hour riding over the same short piece of uneven road at the same speed making incremental adjustments, and it's OK, but for all I know, it could be several clicks away from ideal.

Now it's pretty plush, and has lost a little bit of its steering accuracy, feeling more like a well-sharpened paring knife than a scalpel. I haven't done any real road miles since then apart from motorway and urban, so I dunno if the Elka's right or not. CKT were going to meet up with me and check the settings, but it hasn't happened yet, probably because the race season is in full swing, so they're pretty busy.

[jasonsmith]

Being close to getting an Elka for my rear and re-springing my front this is a very interesting thread so far. It's tough though to make any sense of what's going on without knowing your entire setup. Like BR found out, the front and rear balance is very important. What front and rear spring rates were you fellas using and what do you guys weigh?

I weigh 87kg (about 191 poondz). Front springs are 0.90kg/mm AFAIK.

I have no idea what the Elka spring rate is (but would like to know). I don't think it's set up properly yet; I kinda gave up because it was too hard to get right. The preload's right (and I think the spring is fine), and I think the rebound damping's pretty close to what it should be. The trouble I have (as my derriere isn't educated enough) is that I find it hard to tell if a setting is better/worse than the previous one. I spent about an hour riding over the same short piece of uneven road at the same speed making incremental adjustments, and it's OK, but for all I know, it could be several clicks away from ideal.

Now it's pretty plush, and has lost a little bit of its steering accuracy, feeling more like a well-sharpened paring knife than a scalpel. I haven't done any real road miles since then apart from motorway and urban, so I dunno if the Elka's right or not. CKT were going to meet up with me and check the settings, but it hasn't happened yet, probably because the race season is in full swing, so they're pretty busy.

Your .90kg front is an increase of about 21% from stock so the rear should be close to the same maybe a tad lower. 21% up on the rear would be an 18.4kg shock spring. This is all assuming that Honda got the front and rear relationship correct which I am sure they did. It would be good to know what your rear spring is though... did you tell anyone you had or were going to have a .90kg in the front when you got your shock?

[enzed_viffer]

... did you tell anyone you had or were going to have a .90kg in the front when you got your shock?

No - the order was on basis of me telling them what my weight was, and what kind of riding I was doing.

At that stage, I hadn't planned to do any work on the front forks - I signed up for the Elka buy because I had the opportunity to, and it was cheaper than buying an Ohlins here (~NZ$750 for the shock +$250 courier, versus NZ$1250 for an Ohlins). If I had to do it all again, I would just ship my bike to CKT and get them to fettle the whole thing. Me trying to 'do it on the cheap' didn't really save any money and caused me some grief.

[jasonsmith]

... did you tell anyone you had or were going to have a .90kg in the front when you got your shock?

No - the order was on basis of me telling them what my weight was, and what kind of riding I was doing.

At that stage, I hadn't planned to do any work on the front forks - I signed up for the Elka buy because I had the opportunity to, and it was cheaper than buying an Ohlins here (~NZ$750 for the shock +$250 courier, versus NZ$1250 for an Ohlins). If I had to do it all again, I would just ship my bike to CKT and get them to fettle the whole thing. Me trying to 'do it on the cheap' didn't really save any money and caused me some grief.

I know your frustrated and fed up my friend but I think it may be worth contacting Elka and seeing what spring you have in the rear.

[enzed_viffer]

I know your frustrated and fed up my friend but I think it may be worth contacting Elka and seeing what spring you have in the rear.

I figure it doesn't really matter. I went for a decent ride yesterday (first in ages) and I think the back is pretty well matched to the front end (which I know is sprung/damped right). I didn't bother tweaking the damping at all, but aside from feeling a little fidgety, it was basically OK. I can't work out if the "fidgetiness" is because it's underdamped and allowing the wheel to move too much on ripples, or overdamped and skipping. On big bumps, it's not an issue.

[Guest]

If you don't have the correct spring on the shock, it doesn't matter how many knobs you twist (or what brand knobs those are) you aren't going to get the bike to handle properly.

First and foremost, you have to get the correct spring on the rear of the bike. You can't make a shock do a spring's work.

[SEBSPEED]

If you don't have the correct spring on the shock, it doesn't matter how many knobs you twist (or what brand knobs those are) you aren't going to get the bike to handle properly.

First and foremost, you have to get the correct spring on the rear of the bike. You can't make a shock do a spring's work.

:ohmy:

As they say in some parts of the world; "You can't make chicken salad with chicken sh!t"...

Get'er dun right E-en!! :angry:

[VFR4Lee]

I hear you can't make chicken soup out of chicken poop. :angry:

I'm wondering if Enzed just needs more seat time. :ohmy:

[enzed_viffer]

I'm wondering if Enzed just needs more seat time. :beer:

Yup, fer sher.

What's with all the comments about "the right spring"? :unsure:

Like I said, it feels fine to me, and matched to the front. With the Elka, I've had standard srprings in front (0.74), too stiff springs (0.95) and the right springs (0.90), so I'm well aware of what it feels like when the front and back aren't matched. At the moment, it feels fine. But if it makes you feel better, I'll see if I can find out what Elka supplied; there's no markings I can see on the spring, so there's no way of telling. If it is wrong, I don't know that I'm going to change it - I've already put around NZ$1300 into the forks, and just over $1000 into the rear, so my bike is kinda overcapitalised. Te more money I throw at it, the harder it will become to ever buy a Ducati or Triumph or whatever. Like the last three bikes, this is "the last bike you're ever going to own, so make the most of it!" :goofy:

[radar]

I know your frustrated and fed up my friend but I think it may be worth contacting Elka and seeing what spring you have in the rear.

I figure it doesn't really matter. I went for a decent ride yesterday (first in ages) and I think the back is pretty well matched to the front end (which I know is sprung/damped right). I didn't bother tweaking the damping at all, but aside from feeling a little fidgety, it was basically OK. I can't work out if the "fidgetiness" is because it's underdamped and allowing the wheel to move too much on ripples, or overdamped and skipping. On big bumps, it's not an issue.

I get the impression that the roads in Kiwiland tend to be on the rough side or generally not that great. Personally with the 5th that I put the Elka on, the Elka made Sask roads tolerable, and our roads suck, I guess I got lucky with the factory setup that they gave me with my 3way, minor adjustments and it was awesome, huge improvement.

[Rice]

Having tried to adjust a combination of an aftermarket shock and revalved/resprung forks to no avail, I am beginning to suspect that it would be cheaper more cost-effective to find a suspension place near you and pay them a visit. If one place does all the work, they will be able to get it right methinks.

Just don't forget to bring a large jar of vaseline to make it a smooth transaction :unsure:

[enzed_viffer]

I get the impression that the roads in Kiwiland tend to be on the rough side or generally not that great.

They're variable, but generally not that great.

Personally with the 5th that I put the Elka on, the Elka made Sask roads tolerable, and our roads suck, I guess I got lucky with the factory setup that they gave me with my 3way, minor adjustments and it was awesome, huge improvement.

So was mine. I can ride through bumps without it getting unsettled. On ripply corners it just corners, rather than skipping around.

I think I must've made it sound like my shock is bad, but it's not. It's very much better than the OEM Showa. I just want to know it's set up right.

I clicked the compression damping knob two clicks softer (I think - I was riding at the time) last night, and the 'fidgetiness' disappeared. However, now there's some very slight 'pitching' front to back over bumps, like the front and rear suspension units are fighting each other momentarily.

.. it would be cheaper more cost-effective to find a suspension place near you and pay them a visit. If one place does all the work, they will be able to get it right methinks.

That's what I should've done in the first place. Even though I live in the biggest city, the nearest suspension place is the one that did my forks, and it's 350km away. When they redid my forks, all I paid for was courier fees, oil and part of the cost of Ohlins springs. If I'd bought springs from them in the first instant, springs would've been free. They'll check the Elka for me for free and tell me if it's OK or not,

but it's just a matter of hooking up with them. As a matter of fact, the owner knows the guy who worked at Elka (he's now at Racetech) setting up their shock design and manufacture. It gave him some interesting insights on Elka's construction and whatnot...

[Guest]

My 2¢:

I probably sound like a broken record here, but spend $19.95 and purchase a copy of Andrew Trevitt's Sportbike Suspension Tuning. He gives some very empirical numbers and methods to use in determining the correct spring rates.