Did I Blow My Suspenders?

[Rice]

On Friday I got rained on hard during my commute from work. I was wearing rain gear, so no issues there. However, I had neglected to remember another potential danger of riding in the rain - Hidden potholes.

I was wading through a huge puddle at about 30 MPH when all of a sudden, it felt like the bike hit a concrete wall head on. The impact had half-folded my mirrors forward and I screamed in anger, disgust and pain as my privates came in firm contact with the tank. I did not stop to check for damage as there was no room and just kept riding and hoping that I didn't have a blown front tire or cracked rim. All appeared well and I was able to get home in one piece.

A cursory inspection had revealed a slightly bent lip of a rim and not much else. Such a bend would not be the first one for me and I am not anal enough to go worrying about silly things like that. I'll ride'em as long as they hold air and can be balanced.

The bike had stayed in the garage over the weekend and when I pulled it out to go to work this morning, it seemed OK enough to ride. So, I checked tire pressure and set off. The trouble had manifested itself in the first turn. Right after initiating the turn, the bars would fall in quickly through about 20% of the turn motion and then, as I lean further, the bars would fight to return back to the 20% position. It almost felt like I was riding one of those Razor aluminum scooters, which have no rake. Subsequent turns around my block had confirmed that something had gone wrong. So, I parked the bike and took a train, which really sucked b/c it is the first week of the season when it isn't supposed to rain.

I wonder if anyone had experienced anything like this before.

I will take a closer look at the forks tonight and try to loosen and re-tighten things down there. I sure hope that I haven't bent my forks, as my bike budget does not include any major work this year.

[Baileyrock]

That Sux!

I would also check for steering head bearing movement while your at it. Sounds like the hit was hard enough to do damage almost anywhere to your front end.

Did this feel happen while turning in both directions or just the one?

Also some Cities will pay for the damages to your vehicle from pot holes, so look into that. Your Ins. will cover it too most likely if it ends up being bent forks or something. :fing02:

[SEBSPEED]

Ouch!

[Rice]

That Sux!

I would also check for steering head bearing movement while your at it. Sounds like the hit was hard enough to do damage almost anywhere to your front end.

Did this feel happen while turning in both directions or just the one?

Also some Cities will pay for the damages to your vehicle from pot holes, so look into that. Your Ins. will cover it too most likely if it ends up being bent forks or something. :blush:

Funny that you should mention the head bearing. I've just received one in the mail a week ago and it's been sitting on my workbench. Guess now would be the perfect time to change it. :fing02:

To answer your question, the bike acts the same when turning in both directions.

Oh, and no insurance here - I carry liability only. With my rates, it's worth it. :dry:

[CrazyInNYC]

That Sux!

I would also check for steering head bearing movement while your at it. Sounds like the hit was hard enough to do damage almost anywhere to your front end.

Did this feel happen while turning in both directions or just the one?

Also some Cities will pay for the damages to your vehicle from pot holes, so look into that. Your Ins. will cover it too most likely if it ends up being bent forks or something. :blush:

You should have taken Friday off... :dry:

My insurance company managed to get 70% back from the city when my bike was nearly swallowed by a massive pothole. Granted, I almost got arrested for trying to take pictures of a pothole which had existed for months, according to the officer taking the report, but was filled only two days after said picture incident and spent weeks unsuccessfully trying to obtain a copy of the police report which "must have been left in the officer's jacket"...

Good luck with that... :fing02:

[superfunkomatic]

I hit a massive pothole a few years ago when touring in the states. It broke the carcass of the front tire and caused all kinds of weird behavior with the front end. I thought i'd caused damage to the front end, too. Turns out, when i replaced the tire everything was fine. Checking the tire is a whole lot cheaper than some of these other solutions.

[Guest]

Cracked lower triple clamp possibly? (allowing the forks to have some play in them)

To be on the safe side, I think I would de-skin the bike (doesn't really take that long) and do a thorough inspection of all the suspension components including the frame. One way to look at what happened to you is that you had a wreck but didn't go down.

[Rice]

You should have taken Friday off... :dry:

My insurance company managed to get 70% back from the city when my bike was nearly swallowed by a massive pothole. Granted, I almost got arrested for trying to take pictures of a pothole which had existed for months, according to the officer taking the report, but was filled only two days after said picture incident and spent weeks unsuccessfully trying to obtain a copy of the police report which "must have been left in the officer's jacket"...

Good luck with that... :fing02:

Did I say Friday? I meant Thursday :blush:

It happened in Liberty State Park (NJ), which probably means that this is federal land? Not that I think for a moment that going down this path will yeild any benefit. Not around here anyways. :dry:

[JamieDaugherty]

Cracked lower triple clamp possibly? (allowing the forks to have some play in them)

I doubt that would happen because they are pretty sturdy. However...........

I'd check the forks for straightness. I'll bet that you bent at least one of them.

[Rice]

Thanks for the info!

I will be checking all of the things out tonight.

Keeping my fingers crossed...

[Rice]

An update.

Tore into the front end last night.

Removed forks, replaced the head bearing with a tapered ones, inspected the tripples, the forks, the frame and haven't found anything wrong. :laugh:

Forks appear straight upon visual inspection. Tripples look good as far as I can tell and frame has no cracks.

There was a dent on the front wheel, which I hammered back out. It wasn't that bad actually.

However, when I rode to work this morning, the bike turns like crap.

As soon as I lean into the turn, the bike tries to stand up. It pushes pretty hard back on the handlebars trying to straighten them out and resisting the lean.

When I tried to ride w/o hands (just as a test) it tracked absolutely straight.

Do these symptoms sound familiar to anyone?

Maybe I should raise the forks a bit? I seem to remember reading about tapered bearings being "taller" than the OEM ones, which effectively lowers the forks?

Please help!

[HispanicSlammer]

I would set the sag correctly then try riding it first, nothing is bent up or twisted up? Tires are in good condition and aired up? Try measureing and balancing the sag front to back then if that does not work go about lowering the clamps.

[SEBSPEED]

The turn-in w/ the tapered bearing is different from stock; not extreme, but quite a bit different. They make initial turn-in more difficult, but track much better through corners.

- What, if any, tools did you implement in your visual inspection of the forks & triples?

- Have you checked the tire thoroughly fork damage to the carcass/sidewalls?

You can safely start with a 5mm raise of the forks, that should negate the change to tapered bearings. Then you can evaluate from there.

Were you going in a straight line or were the bars cocked a bit to one side or the other when you hit?

[Guest]

I think I would try to get it back to where it was before the pothole incident before I starting doing any mods. Something, somewhere isn't right if your handling changed dramatically after your incident.

You might have bent the dent in your rim out with a hammer, but check to make sure the force of the impact didn't egg shape the wheels. That would probably be only detectable by using some sort of guide along the side of the rim and spinning the tire.

Also, have you checked for the not so obvious items that affect the handling but aren't considering handling items? i.e., did the impact knock a wire loom or cable or brake hose loose from it's previous position that is now creating a bind when you try to turn? Did it break the pin inside the right switch cluster so that now the throttle cables are binding, etc?

[jeremy556]

Was the visual inspection of the forks done with the forks removed?They can be bent enough to cause problems and not be readily apparent when installed on the bike.

[Vecky5]

You may want to have the tire checked for balance. A jolt like that can easily throw a weight.

When I bought a bike a while ago, there were 10 1/4 ounce weights on the front wheel. It turned like crap in both directions (symptoms just like you describe - stand up in turns, hard to turn). After I rebalanced the tire, it acted like a whole new bike.

[Rice]

Thanks for all the suggestions!

Keep 'em coming :laugh:

I would set the sag correctly then try riding it first, nothing is bent up or twisted up? Tires are in good condition and aired up? Try measureing and balancing the sag front to back then if that does not work go about lowering the clamps.

- Sag was set last year. It was pretty close between front and rear then. I will re-check.

- Have you checked the tire thoroughly for damage to the carcass/sidewalls?

- Tires are in excellent condition. I looked at the part of the front tire that took the blow and found no evidence of impact where it bent the rim. The sidewall looks new.

- What, if any, tools did you implement in your visual inspection of the forks & triples?

I removed forks and unscrewed the tops and moved the tube in and out to check for binding or anything unusual. There is some binding but not any more than a year ago when I did the springs. Pass. Also stared up and down each fork to see if there is a bend. Straight as arrow (IMHO). A do have a pretty good eye for these things, but that's not saying much. I tried to think of a tool to use but failed miserably. If there is a bend it must be very small. It could still prolly affect things?

Were you going in a straight line or were the bars cocked a bit to one side or the other when you hit?

Hmmm... Good question. I have been going down a straight road, but weaving a bit to avoid the deepest puddles. (Not very successfully in retrospect :blink: ). The rim though was only bent on one side. The other wall of the rim is like new.

-Tripples: Held close to my eyes and checked for cracks. Pass.

As to the not-so-obvious items, all is fine. Brake lines and wire loom are all in place. I had to move them around while doing the bearings, so I got a very close look at them.

Did not do:

- Front axle: Looked good while I was removing it, but I did not specifically check if it was straight.

- Front wheel: Did not check if it is "out of true". However, I did ride the thing to work today and there is no vibration what so ever.

Next steps:

1. Check sag

2. Balance the front

3. Raise forks by 5mm

[superfunkomatic]

I"m still betting on the tire. You mentioned there was no visible damage - there wasn't any on my tire either. The tire looked normal - no bulges or oddities. It only seemed to affect the tire at mid-speed (50km/h or so) after that it was fine. If the hardware is fine i'm guessing it's damage to the internal carcass of the tire.

[jeremy556]

You may want to have the tire checked for balance. A jolt like that can easily throw a weight.

When I bought a bike a while ago, there were 10 1/4 ounce weights on the front wheel. It turned like crap in both directions (symptoms just like you describe - stand up in turns, hard to turn). After I rebalanced the tire, it acted like a whole new bike.

Holy crap :laugh:

[CrazyInNYC]

You may want to have the tire checked for balance. A jolt like that can easily throw a weight.

When I bought a bike a while ago, there were 10 1/4 ounce weights on the front wheel. It turned like crap in both directions (symptoms just like you describe - stand up in turns, hard to turn). After I rebalanced the tire, it acted like a whole new bike.

You're welcome to come swap out your front wheel for mine (temporarily ). Seems that would be a fairly quick and cheap way to rule out tire/wheel issues. Of course, I don't have a scissor jack or piece of wood for supporting the headers. I might be headed to Brooklyn (near grand army plaza) for brunch on Sunday, if you haven't gotten it figured out by then I may be able to drop off my bike for a bit. LMK

[SEBSPEED]

You would feel the internal damage as a wobble or vibration at speed, not at turn in.

If the change of feel is not related solely to the new bearings, then my money is on one or more bent fork tubes. The runout limit is very small, there's a good chance you can't see it by eye. To know for sure, you have to disassemble the forks entirely, lay them up in v blocks, and turn them under a dial indicator.

[Baileyrock]

my money is on one or more bent fork tubes. The runout limit is very small, there's a good chance you can't see it by eye. To know for sure, you have to disassemble the forks entirely, lay them up in v blocks, and turn them under a dial indicator.

If you don't have V-blocks, then you can remove the front wheel (with the front of the bike supported) and if you want stick the axle loosely back through the forks to keep the lower tubes from spinning. Then loosen both tree pinch bolts on one fork at a time and just spin the Upper tubes in the trees, if the fork tube is bent you can just watch as the bottom (axle) end of the fork moves around. If the tube is straight the bottom won't move off center line, if it is it will move around off center as you spin the upper tube. Now check other tube. :fing02:

[Rice]

my money is on one or more bent fork tubes. The runout limit is very small, there's a good chance you can't see it by eye. To know for sure, you have to disassemble the forks entirely, lay them up in v blocks, and turn them under a dial indicator.

If you don't have V-blocks, then you can remove the front wheel (with the front of the bike supported) and if you want stick the axle loosely back through the forks to keep the lower tubes from spinning. Then loosen both tree pinch bolts on one fork at a time and just spin the Upper tubes in the trees, if the fork tube is bent you can just watch as the bottom (axle) end of the fork moves around. If the tube is straight the bottom won't move off center line, if it is it will move around off center as you spin the upper tube. Now check other tube. :fing02:

Great idea!

I'll descend into the man cave to try this and that.

Oh, btw, here is the culprit:

This monster is 1/2 beer cans deep. I wanted to put them inside for perspective, but this road is too busy and too dangerous. I was travelling in the direction of the shot here, so I got the worst of it.

[jeremy556]

Why were you riding the double yellow, in the rain? :fing02:

[Baileyrock]

Oh, btw, here is the culprit:

This monster is 1/2 beer cans deep. I wanted to put them inside for perspective, but this road is too busy and too dangerous. I was travelling in the direction of the shot here, so I got the worst of it.

This is why I'm always on the rear wheel, it prevents possible fork damage! :fing02: