Texasmac 2007 Pictures

[Baileyrock]

Impressive lean angle, but not the smartest for the street or even the track! You have very little to No margin at these angles and it would take very little to have it go very bad ! T-Mac died at speeds slower than your running there, is it worth it? :warranty:

I have had the bad tendency to have these extreme lean angles at my track days and even there I need to lessen the angles to leave me some margin on the track too. Looks good, not the wisest IMO. :goofy:

[skuuter]

Still impressive pics.....but.....in the "real" world, if you leave nothing on the table cornering you get "splinters".....one gravel turns adrenalin rush to ambulance rush.....just "street" thoughts........... :unsure:

[Rice]

Here's one I pulled from one of the video's when Kevin was infront of me recording... you can see the sparks coming from my footpeg!

Then I got farther into the turn at which point our tires were getting a little close .... for a closeup shot!

Not sure what the recommended lean angle is on the M3's but they were superb the entire trip for me.

This is as an extreme-a-lean as I've ever seen. Especially considering the fact that the camera is leaned over as well, which makes it seem not as extreme as if the camera was upright. :o

And to think that I follwed you for 350 miles and lived to tell about it :goofy: well, just barely :unsure:

[kwr8728]

Impressive lean angle, but not the smartest for the street or even the track! You have very little to No margin at these angles and it would take very little to have it go very bad ! T-Mac died at speeds slower than your running there, is it worth it? :unsure:

To tell you the truth Kevin, the lean angles might be extreme but the speed definitely was not there. The margin of safety at that lean angle is no worse then the high speed passes that many of us make on the skyway year after year... So what is really worth it. The high speed sweepers that when you do go down you ARE getting hurt. Or the 30 mph turn at extreme lean angles? The speed in that video is probably 4-5 minutes longer then what you and Jeremy would have pulled if you had a clean pass through there.

Question is riding worth it? Is the risk of riding to the store and sitting a stop light worth it? Is the risk of low siding worth it?

I guess since t-mac died at what appears to be slower speeds, then we shouldn't have anything other then scenic tours for any group ride? Im sorry, but this really bugs me coming from you. I have been behind you on the lower sections of 129 (the sweepers) and you weren't exactly crawling... and then the tight sections going up the store... yea once again, not exactly going slow. And i have heard from Jeremy at the PACE you guys run across the skyway. Its nothing insane, but the margin of error is as slim up there at 60 mph as it is on the dragon at 40. And before i get a comment back about the "LEAN ANGLE", these bikes can go down from anything less then just ground clearance issues.

So is it worth it? I know it is for me...

[Motor_Ref]

Damn! and they said Tumbles and I were the crazy ones?? Oh there things I miss. :unsure:

What is the green jacket with the funny letters on it?

[Rivcyko]

Damn! and they said Tumbles and I were the crazy ones?? Oh there things I miss. :unsure:

What is the green jacket with the funny letters on it?

It's, "Filp-top", for, "Not a Honda". LOL.

[Baileyrock]

Impressive lean angle, but not the smartest for the street or even the track! You have very little to No margin at these angles and it would take very little to have it go very bad ! T-Mac died at speeds slower than your running there, is it worth it? :unsure:

To tell you the truth Kevin, the lean angles might be extreme but the speed definitely was not there. The margin of safety at that lean angle is no worse then the high speed passes that many of us make on the skyway year after year... So what is really worth it. The high speed sweepers that when you do go down you ARE getting hurt. Or the 30 mph turn at extreme lean angles? The speed in that video is probably 4-5 minutes longer then what you and Jeremy would have pulled if you had a clean pass through there.

Question is riding worth it? Is the risk of riding to the store and sitting a stop light worth it? Is the risk of low siding worth it?

I guess since t-mac died at what appears to be slower speeds, then we shouldn't have anything other then scenic tours for any group ride? Im sorry, but this really bugs me coming from you. I have been behind you on the lower sections of 129 (the sweepers) and you weren't exactly crawling... and then the tight sections going up the store... yea once again, not exactly going slow. And i have heard from Jeremy at the PACE you guys run across the skyway. Its nothing insane, but the margin of error is as slim up there at 60 mph as it is on the dragon at 40. And before i get a comment back about the "LEAN ANGLE", these bikes can go down from anything less then just ground clearance issues.

So is it worth it? I know it is for me...

First off, I don't not ride slow or am I asking anyone to ride slow. I am asking everyone to ride SMART and for the benefit of the entire newer/learning riding community I challenge the wisdom of these lean angles especially on the street!

I think why these pics bother me the most is that they are posted in the TexasMac thread which for one is a Memorial Ride, two Group/Meet safety is a very Big concern at this event for me especially at the size it's growing too. Also I don't want newer riders to think that these extreme lean angles should be a norm for our group rides and that I wouldn't want someone w/o the skills you guys possess to try and repeat it and crash. Don't forget we had 5 riders go down during this event along with some of our Lead riders having a "your on your own" attitude about leading which is Not the attitude I was looking for at this event.

My goal here is always to try and push the idea of ''safety margins, smart riding" no matter how fast or slow you ride and the fact that riders of lessor skills look up to riders like you and me to show/lead/instruct/guide their learning curve, so this is the reason I challenged the posting of these pictures here.

I would pay less attention to them, but would still comment for the same reasons if they were in a post separate from the TexasMac.

Yes we take chances when we ride and at the speeds we choose to ride at, but there are many ways to improve our chances and NOT running these lean angles is sure one of them. Sure it looks great, but there is absolutely No benefit of these lean angles. You have zero margin even for the slightest line correction. Knowing that you can achieve these lean angles is great for when there's ever a emergency need to use them, but please don't imply it should be a norm.

For whatever reason many of you have a far different philosophy on personal responsibility than I do especially at large events like the TexasMac where we get many riders of less skill or experience levels in the twisties than many of us lucky ones have and I Totally disagree with anyone who has the attitude of "your on your own, ride you own pace" for this type of event.

The VFRD community has many talented riders who IMO should sacrifice for a day or two for the benefit of the whole group and be a good example and leader by riding for the group instead of themselves. You guys like myself ride these great areas many times a year and yes when I want to just go rip it up for a weekend I do Not ask unknowns to join me as I'm there to satisfy my selfish needs, but at events like the TexasMac we as skilled and looked-up to members should step up and provide that extra guidance and safety margins newer riders need by riding for the group as a whole. That's not asking much IMO!

None of this is meant as a personal attack on anyone here, it's a challenge to the responsibility levels some of us lack or carry as the skilled and sometimes admired members on VFRD and the leadership that falls on the shoulders of people in these positions like it or not!

We should Lead ! :thumbsup:

[kwr8728]

Point Taken...

[tinyminds]

Point understood. To clarify this, this pictures was pulled from a video when just Kevin and I were riding together w/o anyone else, not apart of one of the group rides. We were actually only running at about 60% because we were taping me trying to get a clean run and not blowing any lines, so.... in our struggle of trying to keep both of our paces the same, there were times when I would fall back at times, and other times when I would get a little close trying to match our paces through some of the turns. That picture happened to be from the one turn that I was going quite a bit faster than him in... which was still only at about 70% my normal pace through there. I try not to push myself to a max and leave a little room for mistakes all the time, and this happened to be one of those times that I used the room given for mistakes. It was safer and easier for me to run a little wide, tuck in and little farther and go to the outside of Kevin through the turn rather than to hit my brakes in that situation... so thats what I did... resulting in the picture I posted.

I'm sure I could name a number of times that I could have slowed my pace a little, but I try not to run outside my comfort level. Like you stated we had many different people with many different skill levels of riding at the meet. Not that everyone can't lean just as far as the other if they have to, but experience = how you react in these situations. You have to fear your bike, or you become wreckless. The day that I loose my fear of riding will be the day I sell my bikes and quit riding. The group I lead at tmac was an excellent group of people, and I continuously asked along the route how my pace was and no one complained. You can't have that many people riding in one area with that many turns and not expect people to make mistakes when you ride an entire day. People might have went down during the meet, but no one got hurt, excluding a couple bruises and acks, but in my eyes it was a very successful meet. Just wanted to make that point about the picture... then I started rambling. Ride safe!

[Baileyrock]

Thanks guys, I appreciate it and your efforts at the T-Mac. :unsure:

[Guest]

Here's a picture of me riding completely within my comfort level and well within all acceptable risk windows.

..... and loving every minute of it!!

This picture is safe for all family and friends to look at and emulate. (I think?)

Thanks Kevin, I appreciate your efforts at T-Mac.

Rail'in on the Dragon

[KanadianKen]

Here's a picture of me riding completely within my comfort level and well within all acceptable risk windows.

..... and loving every minute of it!!

This picture is safe for all family and friends to look at and emulate. (I think?)

Thanks Kevin, I appreciate your efforts at T-Mac.

Rail'in on the Dragon

Squid!!!!

:goofy:

[skuuter]

SQUID....!!!......I was thinking "ALL-OUT-HOOLIGAN"..................... :P .....Actually, glad everyone had a great time........... :thumbsup:

[Guest]

Here's a picture of me riding completely within my comfort level and well within all acceptable risk windows.

..... and loving every minute of it!!

This picture is safe for all family and friends to look at and emulate. (I think?)

Thanks Kevin, I appreciate your efforts at T-Mac.

Rail'in on the Dragon

Squid!!!!

:pissed:

I taught him how to do that. :lol:

[Guest]

I taught him how to do that. :lol:

Surf that mountain, hell yeah!! :thumbsup: (always within acceptable safety margins)

You guys rock down there.

And roll sometimes too, Kip where are you? (sorry had to) I guess it was more of a slide? :pissed:

Kids, always ride (well) within your limits!

[skuuter]

Kids, always ride (well) within your limits!

I agree totally, because if today ends safely it'll be just as much fun to ride tomorrow............. :pissed: :thumbsup:

[soichiro]

Damn, that is some serious lean. If you were less experienced you would have touched your brakes and PLOP.

[gradus]

First off, I don't not ride slow or am I asking anyone to ride slow. I am asking everyone to ride SMART and for the benefit of the entire newer/learning riding community I challenge the wisdom of these lean angles especially on the street!

I think why these pics bother me the most is that they are posted in the TexasMac thread which for one is a Memorial Ride, two Group/Meet safety is a very Big concern at this event for me especially at the size it's growing too. Also I don't want newer riders to think that these extreme lean angles should be a norm for our group rides and that I wouldn't want someone w/o the skills you guys possess to try and repeat it and crash. Don't forget we had 5 riders go down during this event along with some of our Lead riders having a "your on your own" attitude about leading which is Not the attitude I was looking for at this event.

My goal here is always to try and push the idea of ''safety margins, smart riding" no matter how fast or slow you ride and the fact that riders of lessor skills look up to riders like you and me to show/lead/instruct/guide their learning curve, so this is the reason I challenged the posting of these pictures here.

I would pay less attention to them, but would still comment for the same reasons if they were in a post separate from the TexasMac.

Yes we take chances when we ride and at the speeds we choose to ride at, but there are many ways to improve our chances and NOT running these lean angles is sure one of them. Sure it looks great, but there is absolutely No benefit of these lean angles. You have zero margin even for the slightest line correction. Knowing that you can achieve these lean angles is great for when there's ever a emergency need to use them, but please don't imply it should be a norm.

For whatever reason many of you have a far different philosophy on personal responsibility than I do especially at large events like the TexasMac where we get many riders of less skill or experience levels in the twisties than many of us lucky ones have and I Totally disagree with anyone who has the attitude of "your on your own, ride you own pace" for this type of event. The VFRD community has many talented riders who IMO should sacrifice for a day or two for the benefit of the whole group and be a good example and leader by riding for the group instead of themselves. You guys like myself ride these great areas many times a year and yes when I want to just go rip it up for a weekend I do Not ask unknowns to join me as I'm there to satisfy my selfish needs, but at events like the TexasMac we as skilled and looked-up to members should step up and provide that extra guidance and safety margins newer riders need by riding for the group as a whole. That's not asking much IMO!

None of this is meant as a personal attack on anyone here, it's a challenge to the responsibility levels some of us lack or carry as the skilled and sometimes admired members on VFRD and the leadership that falls on the shoulders of people in these positions like it or not!

We should Lead ! :thumbsup:

I take a little offense to how you're characterizing the philosophy of 'ride your own ride,' particularly given how much this has been discussed in threads and PMs. In no way does that mean 'you're on your own.' Your philosophy doesn't mean you're stepping up for the greater good and taking the high road. So don't mischaracterize a different approach as being lesser than your opinion. If your philosophy is the way to go, pick a group of unknown riders to ride with instead of your own group that's going to haul a$$, while telling every other leader that they have a bigger responsibility for inexperienced or slower riders. In the future just call it 'ride within your limits' and leave the 'you're on your own' slant out of it. Nobody at T-mac was ever on their own, and each of them is still responsible for their own accidents.

Your high level of 'personal responsibility' has it's own problems. The first being that it's not realistic, but a few more...

2) You focus on keeping groups together. This adds stress. NOBODY wants to slow down the group and almost every inexperienced rider will frequently appologize or say that they hope they aren't slowing anyone down. Your approach pressures people to ride faster than they are comfortable.

3) You place this responsibility on the group leader. This adds stress to the leader and asks them to take responsibility for something they can't control.

Ride your own ride is about NOT adding pressure to keep up. It's about NOT adding stress. It's about having fun, spreading out, enjoying any empty road in front of you taking responsibility for yourself, WITHOUT pressure to ride at the same speed as a group. Everyone else will be waiting at the next turn with smiles on their faces. We aren't riding cruisers in formation, we're sport riding. Let people focus on riding relaxed instead of in ridged groups.

Based on your numerous posts about this issue, I know your opinion is not going to change. TexMac is your ride, so you get to make the calls. But I'm asking you to stop acting so enlightened about your 'greater responsibility' and 'what VFRD is all about,' while mischaracterizing opinions different than yours. Paying attention to this issue, discussing it, respecting other opinions and trying to pick a good strategy is what VFRD should be about. You're disrespect of those opinion (ie. calling 'ride your own ride' BS, referring to a other opinions as a 'lack of responsibility') doesn't belong here just as much as 'you're on your own' doesn't belong here. But luckily 'you're on your own' never happened.

I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong. Just annoyed about constantly claiming the high road and saying others have a 'lack of responsibility' for motorcycles under someone else's control.

[Rivcyko]

Zoiks! Got to agree with both of you. Someone had posted something to the effect of, "mixing it up". While I can agree on Groups who came down together, switching-up to a different group, I FEEL, that one is safer riding, with the group you are aquainted with. (Thanks again, for having my back , ViperRon). That's what the beer was for, at the end of the evening. I digress. This is for another posted thread.

Kevin has been through a lot. A few of us have. (I count my blessings, that I've never had to pic a dead friend up, off the road).

Bla. bla, bla,.....Here's a pic,....... or two.

[Chev]

All this talk about the ethics of riding and I had thought he was reffering to your form.

Jason, it seems that your head is at, or above, the center-line of the motorcycle. You gave up valuable tire margin in that corner when you forced the bike below you to make the corner. While the lean angle is impressive, you could have made the same corner at the same speed, with less lean angle, if you had your melon, and the rest of your body, towards the inside of your bike and lower.

My $.02 You can melt them for the copper if you like.

[Baileyrock]

None of this is meant as a personal attack on anyone here, it's a challenge to the responsibility levels some of us lack or carry as the skilled and sometimes admired members on VFRD and the leadership that falls on the shoulders of people in these positions like it or not!

We should Lead ! :thumbsup:

I take a little offense to how you're characterizing the philosophy of 'ride your own ride,' particularly given how much this has been discussed in threads and PMs. In no way does that mean 'you're on your own.' Your philosophy doesn't mean you're stepping up for the greater good and taking the high road. So don't mischaracterize a different approach as being lesser than your opinion. If your philosophy is the way to go, pick a group of unknown riders to ride with instead of your own group that's going to haul a$$, while telling every other leader that they have a bigger responsibility for inexperienced or slower riders. In the future just call it 'ride within your limits' and leave the 'you're on your own' slant out of it. Nobody at T-mac was ever on their own, and each of them is still responsible for their own accidents.

Your high level of 'personal responsibility' has it's own problems. The first being that it's not realistic, but a few more...

2) You focus on keeping groups together. This adds stress. NOBODY wants to slow down the group and almost every inexperienced rider will frequently appologize or say that they hope they aren't slowing anyone down. Your approach pressures people to ride faster than they are comfortable.

3) You place this responsibility on the group leader. This adds stress to the leader and asks them to take responsibility for something they can't control.

Ride your own ride is about NOT adding pressure to keep up. It's about NOT adding stress. It's about having fun, spreading out, enjoying any empty road in front of you taking responsibility for yourself, WITHOUT pressure to ride at the same speed as a group. Everyone else will be waiting at the next turn with smiles on their faces. We aren't riding cruisers in formation, we're sport riding. Let people focus on riding relaxed instead of in ridged groups.

Based on your numerous posts about this issue, I know your opinion is not going to change. TexMac is your ride, so you get to make the calls. But I'm asking you to stop acting so enlightened about your 'greater responsibility' and 'what VFRD is all about,' while mischaracterizing opinions different than yours. Paying attention to this issue, discussing it, respecting other opinions and trying to pick a good strategy is what VFRD should be about. You're disrespect of those opinion (ie. calling 'ride your own ride' BS, referring to a other opinions as a 'lack of responsibility') doesn't belong here just as much as 'you're on your own' doesn't belong here. But luckily 'you're on your own' never happened.

I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong. Just annoyed about constantly claiming the high road and saying others have a 'lack of responsibility' for motorcycles under someone else's control.

You are entitled to your opinions too! :thumbsup:

I'm sure your opinion is true for you but based only on a fraction of the info, input, feedback, facts and commitment I have to this event through organizing it for the last 4 years. Maybe dreadfully, I do take on the stress, worry and responsibility of everyone who attends these events and no I was not completely happy with how this years went.

I don't know about you, but I am pushing safety and my ideas from a guilty heart as I was leading when TexasMac was killed. I'm sorry, but your lack of wisdom or history related to this event does not bode well with me and neither do your slights towards how I think the event should be run for the benefit of all who attend.

Your single trip experience to the T-Mac and for whatever reason you are miss reading anything I'm trying to get across is a misfortune. In fact you have little VFRD history to be spouting off this much.

I absolutely think you are way out of line coming down on my attempts to try and run and have a safe, fun and stress free Annual TexasMac events every year. You have no right IMO!

If you choose to call whatever i do or claim a bogus "high road" so be it, but again You have no history or previous knowledge of any of these events and so speak from that viewpoint.

You sound a little high and mighty to me at the moment! :P Hopefully you will be half as enlightened as me when you get as old as I am! :lol:

BTW, thanks again for your help during the T-Mac.

PS kids ! :goofy:

[stic3]

Speaking as a member who did not attend this year's TexasMac or any previous ones, but a a member that read with great interest about the preparations and results of this year's TexasMac, the one thing that I would not question is Baileyrock's true dedication to this event.

[Hoopster]

Cool pics. Hopefully I will be in a few next year!

Ditto!

[tinyminds]

All this talk about the ethics of riding and I had thought he was reffering to your form.

Jason, it seems that your head is at, or above, the center-line of the motorcycle. You gave up valuable tire margin in that corner when you forced the bike below you to make the corner. While the lean angle is impressive, you could have made the same corner at the same speed, with less lean angle, if you had your melon, and the rest of your body, towards the inside of your bike and lower.

My $.02 You can melt them for the copper if you like.

Thanks for pointer. I have a huge problem keeping my head tucked in. It feels like I have it down more than I do, then everytime I look at a pic of myself its sitting straight up. Form eventhough might have helped, wasn't even in my mind going through that corner... it was more along the lines of .... #$@% I'm catching him fast ... Been looking at track schools lately. I've done track days, but never done a school. Hopefully some one on one pointers will help straighten me out :P Thanks though.

[jeremy556]

All this talk about the ethics of riding and I had thought he was reffering to your form.

Jason, it seems that your head is at, or above, the center-line of the motorcycle. You gave up valuable tire margin in that corner when you forced the bike below you to make the corner. While the lean angle is impressive, you could have made the same corner at the same speed, with less lean angle, if you had your melon, and the rest of your body, towards the inside of your bike and lower.

My $.02 You can melt them for the copper if you like.

Thanks for pointer. I have a huge problem keeping my head tucked in. It feels like I have it down more than I do, then everytime I look at a pic of myself its sitting straight up. Form eventhough might have helped, wasn't even in my mind going through that corner... it was more along the lines of .... #$@% I'm catching him fast ... Been looking at track schools lately. I've done track days, but never done a school. Hopefully some one on one pointers will help straighten me out :P Thanks though.

Go do the Ed Bargey race school on June 9th at Jennings.