32,000 Mile Valve Check Service.

[gsigv4]

I'm in the UK and I've contacted a number of dealers to get quotes for the 32,000 mile service (incl valve check). £850-£950 depending on how many of the valves actually need adjusting!!!!. A couple of questions:

1) it seems like a lot of money to me. 2/3 dealers even said they wouldn't bother with the valves but why would Honda state every 16,000 miles if not necessary?

2) without the valves I was thinking of doing the rest of the service myself now that the bike is 4 years old and well out of warranty. Any comments from those that have actually done the work themselves on how straightforward it is i.e. do you need any special tools etc? Changing engine and shaft oils, oil and air filters, brake pads all seem fairly straightforward. Am I missing anything that's complex?

Appreciate any guidance. Cheers. (also posted on bikersoraclw)

[steveb77]

The basic service is easy to do and a service manual can be downloaded. I have owned honda's for 22 years and have always cheched the valves when needed. Never needed doing at the first 16k, by 32k there would be 1 or 2 that were a little tight. 32k is also when you need to replace spark plugs.

[smergy]

The first valve service is the key one. As the motorcycle ages beyond this, the probability of the valves being out of spec is less likely. Of course if you had one on the edge at the 16k service, it may just be out by 32. It is good to check, however the valve clearance usually stabilizes as the miles click on. Excessive valve train noise is usually a good indicator, but of course that is a subjective way to measure.

[Rice]

I am a firm believer in not checking valves in motorcycle engines.

Admittedly, my belief stems from the fact that I am a cheap bastid and don't want to dump a grand and a half on checking valves in a 5K dollar bike.

However, being a tormented soul and somewhat of a perfectionist, at least when it comes to mechanical soundness (disclaimer meant for those who have seen my bike up close), I gave this more thought.

What I came up with, was still more justification for my belief.

1 - In all the time spend in the VFR multiverse, I have never heard any credible reports of engine failure due to missed valve adjustments. There were some murmurings once (don't recall the source), but overwhelmingly, most VFR motors don't fail. And I am assuming here that most people do not do valve adjustments.

2 - What's the absolute worst that can happen if the valves are forever deprived of tender caressing touch of your friendly neighborhood dealer? Well, mechanical failure, the need to replace the engine and associated expense and down time, of course.

Let's talk engine failure. What little I know of the function of valves, if they get too tight, they will not open and close completely and that will result in rough running and power loss. Eventually, working edges will deteriorate due to increased mechanical stress (too tight) and possibly increased temperature due to hot gasses escaping from between the mating surfaces. In short, I do not think that this will result in a catastrophic failure. What I think is going to happen, is the motor will start running rough(er) and will lose power - All this gradually enough for the owner not to even notice, until he borrows someone's newer VFR for a ride. Conclusion - No danger to life and limb there.

What about the expense and the downtime associated with engine failure, should it ever occur? Well, this would be the worst thing that can happen, wouldn't it? Speaking of 6th gen motors, a nice low mile specimen can be had for under 500 bucks delivered. A valve adjustment on one costs around $700 and at least 2 are required over the lifetime (that I know of).

A simple cost-benefit analysis tells me that almost 3 engines must be destroyed in order to justify the cost of required valve adjustments.

As to the down time, it will probably be faster to swap in a replacement motor that to check all the valves.

[jeremyr62]

One needs to develop a love of all things mechanical and a desire to do this stuff yourself. That way it gets done and you have fun at the same time.

[lshark]

the mechanic at the Honda dealer who did my valve check said that the VFR1200 was the most difficult one he had ever done....none out of spec at 17,000...changed the spark plugs too, they looked like brand new.....i'm almost to 37,000 miles now....maybe i'll have them checked again over the winter

[Headhunter]

Pass...

[BiKenG]

I am a firm believer in not checking valves in motorcycle engines.

Admittedly, my belief stems from the fact that I am a cheap bastid and don't want to dump a grand and a half on checking valves in a 5K dollar bike.

However, being a tormented soul and somewhat of a perfectionist, at least when it comes to mechanical soundness (disclaimer meant for those who have seen my bike up close), I gave this more thought.

What I came up with, was still more justification for my belief.

1 - In all the time spend in the VFR multiverse, I have never heard any credible reports of engine failure due to missed valve adjustments. There were some murmurings once (don't recall the source), but overwhelmingly, most VFR motors don't fail. And I am assuming here that most people do not do valve adjustments.

2 - What's the absolute worst that can happen if the valves are forever deprived of tender caressing touch of your friendly neighborhood dealer? Well, mechanical failure, the need to replace the engine and associated expense and down time, of course.

Let's talk engine failure. What little I know of the function of valves, if they get too tight, they will not open and close completely and that will result in rough running and power loss. Eventually, working edges will deteriorate due to increased mechanical stress (too tight) and possibly increased temperature due to hot gasses escaping from between the mating surfaces. In short, I do not think that this will result in a catastrophic failure. What I think is going to happen, is the motor will start running rough(er) and will lose power - All this gradually enough for the owner not to even notice, until he borrows someone's newer VFR for a ride. Conclusion - No danger to life and limb there.

What about the expense and the downtime associated with engine failure, should it ever occur? Well, this would be the worst thing that can happen, wouldn't it? Speaking of 6th gen motors, a nice low mile specimen can be had for under 500 bucks delivered. A valve adjustment on one costs around $700 and at least 2 are required over the lifetime (that I know of).

A simple cost-benefit analysis tells me that almost 3 engines must be destroyed in order to justify the cost of required valve adjustments.

As to the down time, it will probably be faster to swap in a replacement motor that to check all the valves.

Hmm, dangerous talk indeed. Valve clearance too tight or too loose can have VERY expensive repercussions and were it come to pass, you would definitely wish you'd had them adjusted correctly.

The blasé attitude above relies on the fact that modern engines don't go far out of adjustment, if at all. But it only takes one to make you regret not doing it.

Servicing is now limited to this rather major task and a few other trivial ones like oil and filter. They've got to get their money somehow. But £900 is a lot of money and does rather encourage skimping.

[Mohawk]

Your bike your choice. Depends if you want to keep or sell it ? If keeping long term this will knaw at the back of your mind everyday the engine sounds different. If selling, then the seller will expect these to have been done, if not I'd expect a big chuck of cash knocked off, as I'd have to do it.

If you are reasonably mechanical, it's not hard to check them for piece of mind. No special tools required other than feeler gauges.

You don't have to worry about timing or anything else. Simple method, if remove cam cover one at a time or both up to you, remove right fairing panel so you can gain access to the crank end bolt under the small inset cover in right case.

If you remove the spark plugs for a check or replacement, then turning the engine over is much easier. Then look at the cam lobes, turn engine (always turn clockwise, if you miss a valve position, NEVER turn the other way) until both are pointing up away from the valves, this will either be 10-2 o'clock like a V or 2-10 like a ^ shape when the piston is at or near TDC. Measure the gap between the base of the cam & the bucket it operates. If you want to be really quick, you can measure each valve regardless of piston position, provided that valve is closed & the cam lobe I s in the TDC position.

Check the clearance specs in the manual, but IIRC. 5th gen is 0.16mm & 0.3mm +/- 0.03mm, 6th gen may be different. As an FYI Inlets normally tighten & exhausts normally loosen on bike engines. Point to note, 5th gen cams run backwards, as in anti-clockwise, 6th gen run clockwise, both viewed from right hand side of bike. This in theory means the 5th gen should turn easier due to reduced centrifical forces from the engine, cams cancelling crank !

So a quick check is like this ;-

Inlet, use a 0.15mm feeler, does it fit ? Yes/No ?

If yes, use a 0.20mm feeler does it fit ? If NO then it's fine, if YES, valve needs adjusting

If no, then try 0.10mm feeler if very sloppy it will be OK, if snug, valve needs adjusting.

Exhaust, use a 0.30mm feeler, does it fit ? Yes/No ?

If yes, and NOT snug, then use a 0.35mm feeler (combine 0.20+0.15mm feelers !), does it fit, If NO then it's fine. If YES valve needs adjusting.

If no, try a 0.25mm feeler, does it fit ? if yes and NOT snug then should be fine, if tight or does not fit, then valve needs adjusting.

Job done, just use a bit of paper to record your findings & save with the bikes paperwork for future reference. Should take you 2-3hours first time, this is why garage is so expensive, it's time not effort.

5th gen is simple if you need to change shims, due to gear drive to cams, 6th gen is harder due to chain drive to cams, but that will be lesson 2 if needed.

Have fun valves are great.

[HighSideNZ]

I take it you are referring to a 7th Gen VFR? If so...

Sorry but you do need special tools on the 6th Gen and possibly the 7th Gen if it is VTec.

You have to lift the cams and install the slider pins in the VTec valve followers and then put the cams back in. All timed up of course.

THEN you can measure the clearances on the VTec valves.

Without doing the above steps, the VTec valves will have ZERO clearance.

Once you measure the clearances, you can then pull the cams again and measure the shims.

See if you can swap them around to get any tight/loose clearances to come right.

Record EVERYTHING as it is easy to forget where you are up to.

[BiKenG]

The VFR1200 (referred to as 7th gen. - stupidly in my opinion) is NOT VTEC and utilises Honda's UNICAM arrangement which places the cam over the inlet valves for bucket and shim operation, but with rocker arms actuating the exhaust valves. Quite a clever compromise that keeps it mechanically simple and compact. Could be seen as 'best of both worlds'. Anyway, inlets are shim under bucket and the exhausts are screw adjusters. And no unnecessary VTEC getting in the way.

[Mohawk]

Doh, my bad never spotted it was 7th gen 1

As I've always said, VFR12 is NOT part of the normal VFR 700-800cc series, so should not have been referred to by this site or others as 7th Gen. It's a whole nother can of worms, but simpler than the Vtec nonsense that never achieved anything, other than to make a great engine more complex for no other reason than to emulate high performance cams on sport bikes, coming on cam.

So saved by Ken, Cheers, good to know the innards of the 12 are more sensible. Although I think Kawasaki's mini slipper arms as copied by BMW on the S1000RR are the simplest & best solution & work with 16K/rpm rev ranges !

[Nitenurse]

Whether you do it yourself or have a dealer do the valve checks, make sure that the O rings are renewed. My dealer, or rather the dealers mechanic, not only did not renew the O rings, he actually forgot to replace one on the rear cylinder head. It's easy to know if O rings are missing......the bike burns oil with lots of smoking from the exhaust. In my case, nearly 2 quarts of oil in 1800 miles.

[BiKenG]

In my opinion, rubber seals don't need replacing every time. I know Honda do now state that new ones should be fitted every time, but they are working to a different agenda, namely avoid repercussions and remedial costs if it does develop an oil leak later and seals were not renewed, but also, rather more cynically, they're in business to make money and selling more parts does exactly that.

Of course an old engine with high mileage would benefit from new seals as they harden with age, but only a couple of years old? I doubt it's really necessary. Forgetting to actually fit a seal is a different matter though? No one could argue that's a good idea and missing out the PAIR valve seals WILL cause smoking and high oil consumption - been there, done that.

[c5ip]

I've done three valve inspections and reused the seals every time with no problems.

[Rider14]

I am a firm believer in not checking valves in motorcycle engines.

Admittedly, my belief stems from the fact that I am a cheap bastid and don't want to dump a grand and a half on checking valves in a 5K dollar bike.

However, being a tormented soul and somewhat of a perfectionist, at least when it comes to mechanical soundness (disclaimer meant for those who have seen my bike up close), I gave this more thought.

What I came up with, was still more justification for my belief.

1 - In all the time spend in the VFR multiverse, I have never heard any credible reports of engine failure due to missed valve adjustments. There were some murmurings once (don't recall the source), but overwhelmingly, most VFR motors don't fail. And I am assuming here that most people do not do valve adjustments.

2 - What's the absolute worst that can happen if the valves are forever deprived of tender caressing touch of your friendly neighborhood dealer? Well, mechanical failure, the need to replace the engine and associated expense and down time, of course.

Let's talk engine failure. What little I know of the function of valves, if they get too tight, they will not open and close completely and that will result in rough running and power loss. Eventually, working edges will deteriorate due to increased mechanical stress (too tight) and possibly increased temperature due to hot gasses escaping from between the mating surfaces. In short, I do not think that this will result in a catastrophic failure. What I think is going to happen, is the motor will start running rough(er) and will lose power - All this gradually enough for the owner not to even notice, until he borrows someone's newer VFR for a ride. Conclusion - No danger to life and limb there.

What about the expense and the downtime associated with engine failure, should it ever occur? Well, this would be the worst thing that can happen, wouldn't it? Speaking of 6th gen motors, a nice low mile specimen can be had for under 500 bucks delivered. A valve adjustment on one costs around $700 and at least 2 are required over the lifetime (that I know of).

A simple cost-benefit analysis tells me that almost 3 engines must be destroyed in order to justify the cost of required valve adjustments.

As to the down time, it will probably be faster to swap in a replacement motor that to check all the valves.

Remind me not to buy a bike from this guy!!! (Unless he judt replaced the engine!!!)

- Dan

[Volfy]

Remind me not to buy a bike from this guy!!! (Unless he judt replaced the engine!!!)

My thoughts exactly. Even if he replaced the engine, the rest of the bike graduated from the same School of Hakuna Matata.

[lshark]

that tapping sound that loose valves make is actually the rocker or shim hammering the valve stem

[BlueTraveler]

I just spent about 10 hours doing the 16K valve adjustment on my 2013 1200. I studied the postings on a couple of 7^th gen forums before getting started. On one, the author removed the radiator but not the throttle body assembly, and on another, the author didn’t remove the fuel tank. I followed both of those examples.

The gas tank tip worked fine. I simply hoisted the fuel tank out of the way (keeping an eye on the hoses and wires).

The jury’s still out on the radiator tip. Next time, I will remove the throttle body assembly…and probably the radiator too. The problem with removing just the radiator is that it’s extremely difficult to pull the front heat shield and valve cover out through the front frame opening. The benefit is that when you work from the radiator side of the engine, you’ve got pretty good access…you can get a torque wrench on the adjusting nuts, the spark plugs, and two of the four cover bolts.

So, what did I find? All the intake valves were spot on. All the exhaust valves were on the loose end of spec…but still in spec. I also found that adjusting the exhaust rollers to .008 put the exhaust valves at .012 (so I don't think that you really need to check both).

What took me so long? Not having done much work on this bike yet, I took my time along with a lot of pictures. The radiator comes off easily, but is a pain to get back on…and I had to do it twice because I “lost” a couple of wires behind it. I also triple checked everything.

I installed new spark plugs (the old ones were like new) and fresh Honda coolant. The original gaskets were soft, undamaged, and in the case of the valve cover gaskets, glued in place. Even though I bought all the recommend gaskets and o-rings, I didn’t use most of them. With fresh plugs, and valves that appear to hold to spec remarkably well, I think I’ll wait until the 48K mark before I devote another day to this chore.

I’ve been riding for over 35 years, and I’ve always done my own maintenance. This would have been a fairly straightforward valve adjustment if the front cylinders had been easier to get to…but they’re incredibly hard to get to, so it was actually the toughest that I’ve tackled so far…and that’s without having to adjust the intake valves.

Finally, one odd tool came in very handy in replacing the front spark plugs. It’s a flexible 6” drive extension. It allowed me to easily insert and snug down the spark plugs. It also allowed me to retrieve the socket from the bottom of the well after torqueing down the plugs using a standard 3” extension.

[Baileyrock]

I am a firm believer in not checking valves in motorcycle engines.

Admittedly, my belief stems from the fact that I am a cheap bastid and don't want to dump a grand and a half on checking valves in a 5K dollar bike.

However, being a tormented soul and somewhat of a perfectionist, at least when it comes to mechanical soundness (disclaimer meant for those who have seen my bike up close), I gave this more thought.

What I came up with, was still more justification for my belief.

1 - In all the time spend in the VFR multiverse, I have never heard any credible reports of engine failure due to missed valve adjustments. There were some murmurings once (don't recall the source), but overwhelmingly, most VFR motors don't fail. And I am assuming here that most people do not do valve adjustments.

2 - What's the absolute worst that can happen if the valves are forever deprived of tender caressing touch of your friendly neighborhood dealer? Well, mechanical failure, the need to replace the engine and associated expense and down time, of course.

Let's talk engine failure. What little I know of the function of valves, if they get too tight, they will not open and close completely and that will result in rough running and power loss. Eventually, working edges will deteriorate due to increased mechanical stress (too tight) and possibly increased temperature due to hot gasses escaping from between the mating surfaces. In short, I do not think that this will result in a catastrophic failure. What I think is going to happen, is the motor will start running rough(er) and will lose power - All this gradually enough for the owner not to even notice, until he borrows someone's newer VFR for a ride. Conclusion - No danger to life and limb there.

What about the expense and the downtime associated with engine failure, should it ever occur? Well, this would be the worst thing that can happen, wouldn't it? Speaking of 6th gen motors, a nice low mile specimen can be had for under 500 bucks delivered. A valve adjustment on one costs around $700 and at least 2 are required over the lifetime (that I know of).

A simple cost-benefit analysis tells me that almost 3 engines must be destroyed in order to justify the cost of required valve adjustments.

As to the down time, it will probably be faster to swap in a replacement motor that to check all the valves.

Hmm, dangerous talk indeed. Valve clearance too tight or too loose can have VERY expensive repercussions and were it come to pass, you would definitely wish you'd had them adjusted correctly.

The blasé attitude above relies on the fact that modern engines don't go far out of adjustment, if at all. But it only takes one to make you regret not doing it.

Servicing is now limited to this rather major task and a few other trivial ones like oil and filter. They've got to get their money somehow. But £900 is a lot of money and does rather encourage skimping.

Yeah, that guy is a squid!

I started a game with my bike years ago. I bought my 02 VFR with 200 miles on it and had a spare low mileage engine sitting around just to play this game.

So I started, no check at 16k, no noises/ no issues, 24k the same, 36k the same, 50k wow. Most valves get tight as the seats get hammered into the head, so my biggest concern was a tight valve that would eventually limit performance so I just said Screw it. I will run the crap out of this bike until it blows and see how long it last. I also have 3 other VFR's to ride if needed.

So last year I hit 100,000 miles on the bike during the 10th Anniversary of the TexasMac, still no noise of loss of power. Over 105k miles now and i just don't care.

Do not use me as an example, but I think valve checks are way over rated. I would have no issue running any Honda 50k miles w/o giving it a thought.

Now if you have money burning holes in your pocket that you need to waste I mean spend, by all means give a Dealer a chance to screw up your pristine bike.

No if you like doing your own wrenching like i do, go for it.

BTW the 1200 doesn't have Vtec valves does it?

[lshark]

oil changes are money well spent

[Rice]

I am a firm believer in not checking valves in motorcycle engines.

Admittedly, my belief stems from the fact that I am a cheap bastid and don't want to dump a grand and a half on checking valves in a 5K dollar bike.

However, being a tormented soul and somewhat of a perfectionist, at least when it comes to mechanical soundness (disclaimer meant for those who have seen my bike up close), I gave this more thought.

What I came up with, was still more justification for my belief.

1 - In all the time spend in the VFR multiverse, I have never heard any credible reports of engine failure due to missed valve adjustments. There were some murmurings once (don't recall the source), but overwhelmingly, most VFR motors don't fail. And I am assuming here that most people do not do valve adjustments.

2 - What's the absolute worst that can happen if the valves are forever deprived of tender caressing touch of your friendly neighborhood dealer? Well, mechanical failure, the need to replace the engine and associated expense and down time, of course.

Let's talk engine failure. What little I know of the function of valves, if they get too tight, they will not open and close completely and that will result in rough running and power loss. Eventually, working edges will deteriorate due to increased mechanical stress (too tight) and possibly increased temperature due to hot gasses escaping from between the mating surfaces. In short, I do not think that this will result in a catastrophic failure. What I think is going to happen, is the motor will start running rough(er) and will lose power - All this gradually enough for the owner not to even notice, until he borrows someone's newer VFR for a ride. Conclusion - No danger to life and limb there.

What about the expense and the downtime associated with engine failure, should it ever occur? Well, this would be the worst thing that can happen, wouldn't it? Speaking of 6th gen motors, a nice low mile specimen can be had for under 500 bucks delivered. A valve adjustment on one costs around $700 and at least 2 are required over the lifetime (that I know of).

A simple cost-benefit analysis tells me that almost 3 engines must be destroyed in order to justify the cost of required valve adjustments.

As to the down time, it will probably be faster to swap in a replacement motor that to check all the valves.

Hmm, dangerous talk indeed. Valve clearance too tight or too loose can have VERY expensive repercussions and were it come to pass, you would definitely wish you'd had them adjusted correctly.

The blasé attitude above relies on the fact that modern engines don't go far out of adjustment, if at all. But it only takes one to make you regret not doing it.

Servicing is now limited to this rather major task and a few other trivial ones like oil and filter. They've got to get their money somehow. But £900 is a lot of money and does rather encourage skimping.

When you say that improper valve clearance can cause some very expensive repairs, how expensive? More expensive than replacing an engine? My point is, that the most catastrophic engine failure, short of a fiery explosion, will not be any more costly to repair than replacing the engine.

To me, this comes down to pure math. It is cheaper not to check valves, especially on a vTech, than to MAYBE, ONE DAY to replace the lump.

And I do recognoze that there are other, perfectly valid reasons for wanting to check valves, like the desire to properly maintain your machine or the fun and the satisfaction of doing your own maintenance.

Yeah, that guy is a squid!

And have the t-shirt to prove it

[Headhunter]

Glad I'm not the only one with this thinking. My 03 went 90k without it and ran great.

[Baileyrock]

Glad I'm not the only one with this thinking. My 03 went 90k without it and ran great.

My God Man, What is wrong with you???

LOL

[Headhunter]

That's just a ton of cash for something that most likely won't need any attention. Hell, that's a Sergeant Seat.