Member Contributer RDMcD Posted November 8, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted November 8, 2015 This makes me wonder. Does anyone know how many Toro chargers were installed, and how many are still running? Of the few I've read about, I don't remember any failures. Just a severed finger, ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 This makes me wonder. Does anyone know how many Toro chargers were installed, and how many are still running? Of the few I've read about, I don't remember any failures. Just a severed finger, ouch. Member named zRoYz has your answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Mohawk Posted November 9, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted November 9, 2015 ggatagan, you are correct re longevity, but remember in a road context they are not used at full capacity all or even much of the time compared with a race bike that apart from warm up is caned everywhere all the time. So it's all relative. I'm having to tweak the fuelling on mine to control temps in certain parts of the Rev range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer HighSideNZ Posted November 10, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted November 10, 2015 We are just getting in to the warmer weather down here in NZ so it will be interesting to see how the 825 holds up this summer. Currently, if I get stuck in traffic, the temp rises to 106 and the fan cuts in and it falls quite quickly to 96. If the temp is a problem this summer I think i'll build a front rad set and get rid of the side units. As my pipes are close in on the engine with the bottom rad hose in front of them, I have a fair amount of room to fit a bottom rad so should be able to get plenty of area. Time will tell. If I'm getting stuck in at present the temp sits around a constant 85 so that's not too bad. Would be better down around 75 though. Cheers Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer HighSideNZ Posted November 10, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted November 10, 2015 Hey, I'v just been talking to a mate who has a 2006 CBR1000RR radiator. Looking at the picks it may well fit as a front rad for the 825. I might have it in my hand in a couple of weeks as it is right down the other end of the country. I'll start a new topic once I have the rad to start to see if it will fit. Cheers Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiKenG Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 The VFR cylinders are cast as a whole with the upper crankcase half. Not like an inline-4 where they bolt onto crankcase. Therefore, not swappable. Not always the case of course. Many in-line fours also have one piece crankcase and cylinders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 The VFR cylinders are cast as a whole with the upper crankcase half. Not like an inline-4 where they bolt onto crankcase. Therefore, not swappable. Not always the case of course. Many in-line fours also have one piece crankcase and cylinders. True, there are always exceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Mohawk Posted February 17, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted February 17, 2016 I think the RC45 was one of the first cast in place cylinders, the basic engine is used in the 5th gen, the basic architecture reaches all the way to the RCV race bike. The current Blades since the 929 all have valve head timing very close the RC45's 20years on now ! But the one thing copied across the board has been the cast in place cylinders & MMC type technology to get closer bore spacing & thus narrower engines. Plus better cooling etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 Mohawk, check this out. While this would be totally unnecessary over kill on a stock vfr800, it would be a great idea for those wanting to do major over bores like 74 or 75mm. You could support the cylinders and then bore to 75mm, then oring the deck. This would allow for a huge overbore, while not compromising cylinder strength or head gasket sealing. http://www.cylindersupportsystem.com/ http://www.b20vtec.com/forums/threads/808207-Proven-alternative-to-sleeves-CSS(cylinder-support-system)!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted February 23, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted February 23, 2016 I think the RC45 was one of the first cast in place cylinders, not even close.. if you want to stick with honda.. try 15 years before on the magna. but others did it sooner.. some over 100 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiKenG Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 And right back to Honda's very first V4, the VF750S. Let's look at this another way. Has Honda ever made a V4 that doesn't have integral cylinders cast in the upper crankcase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted February 23, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted February 23, 2016 And right back to Honda's very first V4, the VF750S. Let's look at this another way. Has Honda ever made a V4 that doesn't have integral cylinders cast in the upper crankcase? same engine as the magna.. same "almost everything.. " almost ,including the repair manual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer HighSideNZ Posted February 24, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted February 24, 2016 Guys Back at post 15 in this thread I outlined that there is another constraint and that is the water jacket ports in the head itself. Here is the post again. Sorry but there is another issue to remember when going extremely large in the bore. The water jacket holes in the head around the bores are going to be really close to the edge of the gasket/cylinder bore, so I'd bee rather concerned about leakage to/from the water jacket. I've just measured an old gasket and by the time the gasket bore is increased to 79mm there would only be 3mm from the inner edge of the holes in the gasket to the actual cylinder bore. Seeing the casting holes in the head are quite a bit larger than the holes in the gasket, then I'd have to say that there would be not enough meat to guarantee a good seal. Phil So, from that, unless you want to weld up the head ports and re-machine them at a larger PCD, you are screwed, period!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Mohawk Posted February 25, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted February 25, 2016 Well I was talking about the current range with MMC liners, rather than the old iron liners of the earlier generations, which I can't guarantee are cast in place, due to the material differences they could simply be pressed into the block after boring, as is traditional with iron liners. It was adopted on the V4's long before the IL4's due to the weight & complexity of having two blocks bolting to a crankcase. The VF1000R used flanged press fit wet liners & something else I recently discovered is the Vtec 800 has recessed MMC so the to 3-4mm of unscraped cylinder above the top ring is plain alloy ! To further assist with cooling. That also removes the water seepage path under the head gasket ! Cunning :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 o-ringing the deck can let you get away with very large over bores, with very little head gasket to deck surface, without compromising head gasket sealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer HighSideNZ Posted February 25, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted February 25, 2016 It is not just a matter of o ringing the deck. Usually these "o rings" are not rubber but copper and need to be made specific to the instance. Rubber will not hold up when that close to the combustion area. Been there, done that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Haha yeah I am agreeing with you. I never said that rubber orings or non specific to the instance orings should be used. I am just simply stating that when these very large overbores are done, oringing the deck, would improve deck to head sealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 I was thinking something along the lines of this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted February 26, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted February 26, 2016 Guys Back at post 15 in this thread I outlined that there is another constraint and that is the water jacket ports in the head itself. Here is the post again. Sorry but there is another issue to remember when going extremely large in the bore. The water jacket holes in the head around the bores are going to be really close to the edge of the gasket/cylinder bore, so I'd bee rather concerned about leakage to/from the water jacket. I've just measured an old gasket and by the time the gasket bore is increased to 79mm there would only be 3mm from the inner edge of the holes in the gasket to the actual cylinder bore. Seeing the casting holes in the head are quite a bit larger than the holes in the gasket, then I'd have to say that there would be not enough meat to guarantee a good seal. Phil So, from that, unless you want to weld up the head ports and re-machine them at a larger PCD, you are screwed, period!! I was thinking something along the lines of this: I was looking at welding up the water jackets (either the edge that is cylinder adjacent or completely) and re-boring a hole to the outer edge and going with a copper Oring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Did you see what I posted about the CSS process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted February 26, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted February 26, 2016 Did you see what I posted about the CSS process? I did (hat tip) and contacted Darton Sleeves and received contact back from an engineer. We discussed reverse engineering the largest possible sleeve for the 781cc VFR block. They don't want to use one of my two blocks that I have for rebuilding so I am looking for either a third block to rebuild (and I will have my worst one sent over) or an obviously non-rebuildable block for the reverse engineering of the sleeves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Did you see what I posted about the CSS process? I did (hat tip) and contacted Darton Sleeves and received contact back from an engineer. We discussed reverse engineering the largest possible sleeve for the 781cc VFR block. They don't want to use one of my two blocks that I have for rebuilding so I am looking for either a third block to rebuild (and I will have my worst one sent over) or an obviously non-rebuildable block for the reverse engineering of the sleeves. No not the post about darton resleving, but my last post about "Cylinder Support System" CSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted February 26, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted February 26, 2016 Did you see what I posted about the CSS process? I did (hat tip) and contacted Darton Sleeves and received contact back from an engineer. We discussed reverse engineering the largest possible sleeve for the 781cc VFR block. They don't want to use one of my two blocks that I have for rebuilding so I am looking for either a third block to rebuild (and I will have my worst one sent over) or an obviously non-rebuildable block for the reverse engineering of the sleeves. No not the post about darton resleving, but my last post about "Cylinder Support System" CSS I read the CSS threads but that does nothing toward punching a bigger hole in the block. I may circle back to that depending on how the engineering of the large bore sleeves progresses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 I would say CSS would be a great budget way to reinforce the factory cylinders of up to 74mm, because it is only about $250, minimal machining and not risking the sleeves sinking or shifting. On overbores over 74mm , you are right, Darton resleeving would be the way to go. With Darton sleeves and oringing, you could insure a bullet proof 75mm or 76mm block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Did you see what I posted about the CSS process? I did (hat tip) and contacted Darton Sleeves and received contact back from an engineer. We discussed reverse engineering the largest possible sleeve for the 781cc VFR block. They don't want to use one of my two blocks that I have for rebuilding so I am looking for either a third block to rebuild (and I will have my worst one sent over) or an obviously non-rebuildable block for the reverse engineering of the sleeves. No not the post about darton resleving, but my last post about "Cylinder Support System" CSS That is awesome leg work you are putting in there. That would be a great option to have in the future! It is much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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