Member Contributer maxredline Posted February 8, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 8, 2015 Rebuilding fork with http://www.allballsracing.com/ymmsearch/index/searchfromhome/ fork bushing and seal kit. Problem is that I can not remove the left forks damper rod bolt from the bottom of the fork. I have left the springs in with the compression set to the max. It was difficult to "crack" the socket head bolt but now it just spins the internals and I can't remove the bolt, and yes I am using an impact. At this point I'm not sure what the solution is. I know that there should have been thread locker used when installed and have soaked this bolt with penetrating oil for hours with no success. I would appreciate input from those who have had to deal with this problem, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted February 8, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 8, 2015 One tool...impact driver. But if that fails. Drill out the bolt and replace it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer maxredline Posted February 8, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted February 8, 2015 Duc2V4, I can get the bolt to spin, not a problem its the internals spinning also. What will a drill do If I can't hold the internals? I would guess damage. I might have to make something that holds the internals or just take it to a Honda shop where I would assume they have a special tool to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 There is actually a Factory Tool that somehow holds the inner cartridge for times like these. I have no idea what it looks like other then it's a long rod. I'll run out and look at a cartridge and see if I can figure out what it catches and maybe you can fab one up or borrow one from your local Dealer or close Member. BR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted February 8, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 8, 2015 Duc2V4, I can get the bolt to spin, not a problem its the internals spinning also. What will a drill do If I can't hold the internals? I would guess damage. I might have to make something that holds the internals or just take it to a Honda shop where I would assume they have a special tool to do so. Sorry, I didn't read your post that thoroughly. Check the HSM and see if it shows the tool Bailey is talking about, I don't recall seeing it, but would imagine you could fabricate something if you knew what it looked like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Here's pic's of the top of F4i cartridges and think they are similar to VFR's. I've not seen the actual tool, but they may show it in the shop manual??? Guessing they somehow hook the holes in the top of the cartridge??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted February 8, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 8, 2015 This must be a giant PITA when it happens; fortunately never to me (yet). Bailey is quite right, you need a hollow tube that will fit over the damper rod and engage with the top of the cartridge to stop it turning. I've read elsewhere that an extension pole for a paint roller is about right (and dirt cheap if it doesn't work). Haven't needed to try this myself so I can't verify that it works. Racetech have a specific tool http://www.racetech.com/page/id/70 Have you tried pulling up on the damper rod while undoing the bolt? That might give you enough friction to get the bolt started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted February 8, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 8, 2015 I've posted at least a dozen messages here and elsewhere about this exact problem. Easiest thing to do (aside from asking a friendly Honda mechanic do it, I suppose) is to use an air ratchet and a long 6mm Allen. The air hammer action rattles those bolts out pronto. The other thing you can do is PULL THE FORKS APART to put tension on the compression valve body while attacking the bolt with a conventional ratchet (and long 6mm Allen). Hooking the cartridge won't do anything, because it is not spinning: the compression valve body within the cartridge is spinning, and it will continue to spin even if you stop the cartridge from spinning. Do not compress the forks--that only UN-loads the valve body... [EDIT: The R-T tool won't work because it only works on "damping rod" forks. VFRs from 1990-on have cartridge forks.] Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Duc2V4 Posted February 8, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 8, 2015 ... The other thing you can do is PULL THE FORKS APART to put tension on the compression valve body while attacking the bolt...This^I was trying to remember the internals of the fork and unfortunately I just shipped off a pair of '01 forks to somebody who bought mine, so I couldn't get a first hand look. But now I recall that the compression valve is secured to the slider and "floats" inside the cartridge tube, so pulling on the bottom of the fork slider as JZH suggests is the only way to gain friction on the compression valve to keep it from spinning. The two fork tubes I had an issue with, it was the bolt that was frozen to the tube, so after the bolt had stripped (didn't have an impact drive at the time), the bolt head had to be drilled out. Once the bolt head was off, I literally was able to use my fingers to twist the remainder of the bolt out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted February 8, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 8, 2015 Just to clarify; Racetech have tools for both damper rods and cartridges. Duc is right, the bolt threads into the compression valve body, and that is held into the cartridge by a circlip. Pulling up on the damper rod will pull the compression valve harder against the circlip and reduce the chance of it spinning. However....if the cartridge can still spin, you're no further ahead. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted February 9, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 9, 2015 impact hammer and push UP !!! this increases the springs pressure.. if the bolt is spinning.. TIGHTEN IT! then loosen it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V4 Rosso Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 impact hammer and push UP !!! this increases the springs pressure.. No. compressing the fork will only make the cardridge spin even sooner. Increasing spring pressure by maxing out the preload does help. But follow JZH's procedure by pulling the forks apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted February 9, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 9, 2015 impact hammer and push UP !!! this increases the springs pressure.. No. compressing the fork will only make the cardridge spin even sooner. Increasing spring pressure by maxing out the preload does help. But follow JZH's procedure by pulling the forks apart. i forgot he was dealing with a a cartridge fork.. and not just a spring loaded damper pulling does help.. and it all so makes it easier to make a mess and or hurt yourself when the bolt is finally out and the fork bottom yanks off.... it was fun to watch my boss loose a tooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Conedodger Posted February 9, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 9, 2015 Had this problem on my 6th Gen. I cut the end of a broom handle into a wedge. I was able to slide the broom handle inside the fork tube and wedge the internals so they wouldn't spin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted February 9, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted February 9, 2015 Just to clarify; Racetech have tools for both damper rods and cartridges. Duc is right, the bolt threads into the compression valve body, and that is held into the cartridge by a circlip. Pulling up on the damper rod will pull the compression valve harder against the circlip and reduce the chance of it spinning. However....if the cartridge can still spin, you're no further ahead. True, but if the cartridge is not spinning, a "cartridge holding tool" won't be much help. (Jamming something between the top of the cartridge and the inside of the fork stanchion would have the same effect (or non-effect) as the R-T tool.) Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer maxredline Posted February 9, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted February 9, 2015 Bolt out! ...very low tech. What I did was take the nut off the end of the damper rod and then pushed the fork slider to the bottom of the fork. This left about 2" from the top of the fork slider to the damper rod inside the slider. I then made up a spacer larger than 2" long to put inside the fork slider that butted up against the damper rod so that when I flipped the fork upside down I could push down on the forks putting pressure on the damper rod via the floor/spacer. I used a small piece of rubber to contact the metal damper rod and then cut a plug out of wood for the remainder of the spacer. Putting pressure on the damper rod bottomed out is the only way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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