SilverBullet Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Last week on a trip to Colorado my VFR decided to quit on I70. I moved off onto the shoulder and the bike would not fire back up. I removed the seat and looked at the fuses and both 20 amp fuses were blown (I have a VFRness installed). Replaced the fuses and they blew 2 seconds after the bike started. We then unhooked the stator and the bike fired up and stayed running long enough for me to get off the interstate at the next exit. We then unhooked the VFRness and rehooked the stator and the bike ran perfect for the rest of the trip. I'm going to take the VFRness back off and see if one of those wires shorted out. What else does anyone else suggest I should look at? I really don't know much about the electronics on a bike so any help would be great. Thanks Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted June 16, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 16, 2014 Last week on a trip to Colorado my VFR decided to quit on I70. I moved off onto the shoulder and the bike would not fire back up. I removed the seat and looked at the fuses and both 20 amp fuses were blown (I have a VFRness installed). Replaced the fuses and they blew 2 seconds after the bike started. We then unhooked the stator and the bike fired up and stayed running long enough for me to get off the interstate at the next exit. We then unhooked the VFRness and rehooked the stator and the bike ran perfect for the rest of the trip. I'm going to take the VFRness back off and see if one of those wires shorted out. What else does anyone else suggest I should look at? I really don't know much about the electronics on a bike so any help would be great. Thanks Rick Sounds like your in the right area .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearfreezing Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Sounds like you found the problem. Start with the VFRness first, if that checks out only then start looking for problems elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBullet Posted June 16, 2014 Author Share Posted June 16, 2014 OK, I took off the VFRness and did a continuity test. All of the wires check out and they all look to be in very good condition. I started the bike to check if the bike was charging correctly. At idle it was at 13.6 volts and at 5000 rpm it was at 13.6 volts. Would it be the regulator? After I shut off the bike I decided to look at the 30 amp main fuse by the battery and the fuse holder and the wires were hot. Does anybody know what the cause would be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted June 17, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 17, 2014 OK, I took off the VFRness and did a continuity test. All of the wires check out and they all look to be in very good condition. I started the bike to check if the bike was charging correctly. At idle it was at 13.6 volts and at 5000 rpm it was at 13.6 volts. Would it be the regulator? After I shut off the bike I decided to look at the 30 amp main fuse by the battery and the fuse holder and the wires were hot. Does anybody know what the cause would be? you mean like the fact that all the bikes juice is going though the MAIN fuse.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBullet Posted June 17, 2014 Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 I know the fact it will be maybe warm to the touch, not hot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted June 17, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 17, 2014 Low voltage so the amps are higher . Unplug the R\R and chech Ohm's between each feild and check for a short to ground. Start motor and check voltage output at idle and 5000 rpm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MarkDetroit Posted June 17, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 17, 2014 Also... If you are using the original main fuse holder then that adds to the problem. For me, replacing the fuse holder and adding the standard upgrade grounds boosted my idle and 5000 rpm voltage from 13.8 to 14.3. (On my 2006) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted June 19, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 19, 2014 Any updates ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBullet Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 I checked the stator and my meter read .3 ohms across each field and read nothing when I touched to ground on the battery. I was going to test the R/R but I do not know which wire is positive and which is negative? Also I was looking closer at my fuse holder and the red wire going into it is actually starting to turn black. Not good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted June 20, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 20, 2014 Yeah not good ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBullet Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 I tested the R/R and I found it showed battery voltage thru the red white wire to ground. I then checked green lines to ground and there is continuity. But when checking how many ohms thru the yellow charge wires there is nothing. I'm not 100% sure if I'm doing the checks correctly though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted June 20, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 20, 2014 Try this : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBullet Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 A friend of mine sent me that link last night and all 3 wires from the stator read .3 ohms and 0 when grounded. The shop manual said to test the yellow charge wires on the R/R and should read .1 -1.0 ohm. When I tried briefly before work this morning I could not get a reading from those wires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 The meter for the (stator wire ground check) needs to be on the highest ohm scale Mega ohms. No matter how many times it gets posted, people don't read it, don't understand it. But you will miss a short if you don't do it, and this is 99% of stator failures will show on this check, so do this before wasting time on voltage or coil to coil (yellow wire to yellow wire). There can be no continuity at all on this check, and if your meter is on a 400 ohms scale or even a K ohms scale, you can easily miss a short cause the scale is not high enough. That's checking each yellow wire on the stator side to ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBullet Posted July 20, 2014 Author Share Posted July 20, 2014 I have an update. I hard wired the 3 yellow stator and R/R wires because the connector was stating to turn dark. I then put in a new fuse holder for the 30 amp fuse by the battery. Started up the bike and the volts jumped from 13.8 volts to 15.4. When I plug in the VFRness the volts raise to 15.7. Plus the volts read the same at idle and 5000 rpm. I'm thinking this is too high? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNRabbit Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 I have an update. I hard wired the 3 yellow stator and R/R wires because the connector was stating to turn dark. I then put in a new fuse holder for the 30 amp fuse by the battery. Started up the bike and the volts jumped from 13.8 volts to 15.4. When I plug in the VFRness the volts raise to 15.7. Plus the volts read the same at idle and 5000 rpm. I'm thinking this is too high? is that with the battery connected? If not, it will drop under load of the battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBullet Posted July 20, 2014 Author Share Posted July 20, 2014 Yep, that is with the battery connected. I'm not sure if I trust my meter. I just check my battery with the bike off and it is reading almost 14.1 volts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Knute Posted July 20, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted July 20, 2014 Try following this troubleshooting flowchart to see if it might help. http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/files/file/159-electrosport-charging-system-fault-finding-chart/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNRabbit Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Yep, that is with the battery connected. I'm not sure if I trust my meter. I just check my battery with the bike off and it is reading almost 14.1 volts. thay is an awfully high resting rate. Standard battery or lithium? Lithium batteries can run very high resting voltage rates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MarkDetroit Posted July 20, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted July 20, 2014 So I'm guessing your meter is off by about 1 volt. Time to try another meter and then i bet you'll be ok. (Just an optimistic thought on a Sunday.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBullet Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 I'm thinking the same thing. The funny thing is....I put the bike back together and went for a 30 mile ride. When I got back, I checked the volts. It was 13.4 at idle and 14.4 volts at 5000 rpm. That is good enough for me. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I dealt with an issue that sounds similar on a 2006 VFR with the VFRness attached. There are not one but two "main" fuses, each of which is 30A from the factory. One is in a stand-alone fuse-holder, which is wired in series to the R/R and has [1] a R/Y wire connecting it to battery (+), and [2] a R/W wire leading to the rest of the electrical system; the factory wiring schematic identifies this as "Main B." The other "main" fuse is integrated in the starter relay, under the 4-prong connector that is under the rubber boot and; this is "Main A." When you install the VFRness, the Main *B* fuse -- NOT Main *A* on the starter relay -- is the one you must switch with a 20A. In addition to the more substantial ground wires on the top end (near the R/R), the VFRness also provides a second connection, in parallel, between the R/R and battery (+). The 20A fuse in the VFRness is in the middle of that connection, between the R/R and battery (+). So after putting in the VFRness, you must also swap Main B for a 20A -- this results in each of the two connections between R/R and battery (+) having a 20A fuse. The two are basically "dividing the workload" between the battery and R/R. That's the magic of the VFRness, it basically adds more bandwith to the whole system, which has the net effect of grounding out more current, which in turn prevents overcharging. When I installed the VFRness, I put a 20A into Main A, on the starter relay, but did nothing with Main B. It worked fine for like 2 years, and then on one lovely evening, the bike performance abruptly went from good to horrendous -- misfiring, stumbling and threatening to stall when allowed to idle. The change happened instantly, almost as if someone had just flipped a switch, I thought. When I checked, I found the 20A in the VFRness was blown -- that was the "switch." No problem, I thought, I'll just replace that fuse. But I eventually figured out that I was addressing a symptom rather than the actual cause. With the fresh 20A in the VFRness, the bike worked just fine for a few months. Then the same thing happened again; I checked the VFRness 20A, and sure enough it was blown again. I again replaced the VFRness fuse, and everything seems OK. Eventually, there came a time where the VFRness fuse blew, I swapped it out, but the new one blew like 10 minutes later. I swapped again (by this time I had learned to carry a bunch of spare 20A fuses), but that time it blew again after like 2 minutes. After towing and much frustration, I capitulated and took the bike to the shop. They didn't know what the VFRness was, so that complicated the whole troubleshooting process, But we quickly realized there was trouble with the Main A fuse -- which still had a 30A fuse. The entire fuse holder was scorched and melted to the point that it could not even be opened to get to the 30A fuse inside. By leaving that 30A where there should have been a 20A, that 1/2 of the parallel connection between R/R and battery (+) was carrying much more current than it should have. Over time -- again, we're talking years, not weeks or days -- the current overage slowly but surely cooked the 30A fuse. Over time, that Main A connection deteriorated to the point that it wasn't really carrying much current at all Over time, more and more load was getting diverted to the VFRness, which eventually caused that 20A fuse to blow -- it was trying to accommodate current intended for a 30A circuit (which is why the stock bike has a 30A fuse in that circuit). After I had replaced that 20A in the VFRness, it worked again for a bit, but unbeknownst to me I was just continuing to cook the Main B fuse. Eventually it melted to the point it wasn't really carrying any current at all, which is when the VFRness 20A just kept blowing because it was overloaded. The shop replaced the Main B fuse holder, but at that point I hadn't yet figured out that I had mixed up the two "main" fuses. After a few days, it started gnawing at me that the melted Main B might not actually have been the problem, but rather another symptom. I don't remember how it occurred to me, but I eventually realized I might have misconstrued "main fuse by the battery" -- the one labeled Main A (sounds more "main" than Main B) -- and reversed the two. I emailed Tightwad, and he quickly confirmed my suspicion. I then correctly installed the fuses -- 20A in Main B and original 30A in Main A on the starter relay -- and kept an eye on all the fuses, checking regularly for any signs of heat scoring or other damage. All has been well since then. Part of what had thrown me off was that even if Main B and the VFRness fuses go, the clock and lights still work, where as if Main A goes, the whole system goes dead. It didn't occur to me that I should have been looking for another fuse issue. Maybe your issue is a different one, but I hope this is cautionary tale is useful anyhow. I hope everything works out for you. There's nothing more frustrating to me than electrical issues -- I'm still pretty sure that electricity is actually some sort of black magic that muggles just don't understand.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBullet Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 Main fuse B is the fuse I changed to a 20 amp fuse when I installed the VFRness. I did take a look at Main fuse B and it looks like new. I have no idea why the fuses blew, but I'm kinda thinking the R/R is to blame. For some reason it's allowing too much voltage from time to time. Will have to just ride it and keep an eye on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted July 31, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted July 31, 2014 Main fuse B is the fuse I changed to a 20 amp fuse when I installed the VFRness. I did take a look at Main fuse B and it looks like new. I have no idea why the fuses blew, but I'm kinda thinking the R/R is to blame. For some reason it's allowing too much voltage from time to time. Will have to just ride it and keep an eye on it. My 20a fuse blew with the VFRness after about 2 months so i changed it to a 30a a year or so ago and no problem so far . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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