Valve Adjustment - How Do You Keep The Shim In Place?

[auggius]

I finally worked up the courage to remove the camshaft to check the shim sizes. It was pretty easy actually. Slow and easy. When it came time to put the buckets and shims back into place I couldn't keep the darn shim in place. Even with a dab of oil as suggested the shim kept sliding out of place when I started to turn the bucket over. I finally resorted to putting the shim directly on the top of the valve stem and then put the bucket on. I don't see why that should be a problem but every guide/article I've read says to put the shim in the bucket and then put the assembly in place. So how do you keep the shim in place?

[MBrane]

Magnet on a stick. Such a cheap, but useful tool. Never leave home without one.

[auggius]

I used a magnet to remove the bucket but it didn't work to keep the shim in place when I tried to put it back in. The one I used is telescopic, with a gooseneck on the end. It's a flashlight and the ring around the lens is magnetic. I thought maybe it didn't work because it wasn't magnetic in the middle where the shim was. So I tried a magetic block about the size of the bucket but that didn't work either. That's why I finally gave up and just put the shim directly on the top of the valve stem.

[gll429]

I finally gave up and just put the shim directly on the top of the valve stem.

thats the popper way to do it..

[V4 Rosso]

The Honda manual says "NOTE: Do not allow shims to fall into the crankcase .The shims may occasionally stick to the lifter..."
So the Honda manual warns about shims sticking to the lifter, quite the opposite from what it says in the manuals/howtos you read .
You did it the correct way: install shim => install bucket

Stick to the Honda Service Manual.

[Switchblade]

Any valves out of tolerance ?

and how many miles on the old girl ?

[auggius]

The Honda manual says "NOTE: Do not allow shims to fall into the crankcase .The shims may occasionally stick to the lifter..."

So the Honda manual warns about shims sticking to the lifter, quite the opposite from what it says in the manuals/howtos you read .

You did it the correct way: install shim => install bucket

Stick to the Honda Service Manual.

When I removed the buckets, the shim was stuck to it as suggested. My issue was when trying to put it back on. I'll read my manual again. Maybe I have a reading problem.

[auggius]

Any valves out of tolerance ?

and how many miles on the old girl ?

3 total - 1 intake on #2 and 2 exhaust on #4. And 8 that are on the low end of spec (debating whether I should adjust these too).

166K km (so just over 100K miles)

[Switchblade]

Not bad !!!

[auggius]

Magnet on a stick. Such a cheap, but useful tool. Never leave home without one.

Yep, that worked well. I actually did it by hand without the magnet for all but the rear exhaust camshaft. It was more difficult to access and scared me. But with the magnetic pen it was easy to position the shim in the recess atop the valve stem and then gently slide it off. I think I'll do it this way from now on.

It took me 45 minutes to do remove & replace the first camshaft, and 1hr 15 to do the other three. So now I have all the shim sizes and will probably bring them all back to the middle of the spec.

Here are the clearances & shims for all valves (blue are at end of range, red are to be adjusted):

I don't have a micrometer so I didn't measure any of the shims but Honda shims only come in 0.025mm increments (0.001") anyways. Aftermarket shims like those from Hot Cams only come in 0.05mm increments so you have even less granularity there. But this makes it easy to figure out what shim size you need. Forget the math that all the manuals show. For instance the LF intake clearance is 0.004". To get it back 0.006" it's 2 steps down in shim size, or a 205 to 200. Now I suppose there's a possibility that the shims were mis-labelled but I'll take my chance on that. It'll show up when I check the clearances after I change the shims.

Edit: Oops, still made a mistake on #1 exhaust right valve - 205 -> 202 to bring it to 0.010" the middle of range but a 200 will bring it to 0.011" at the loose end.

[Mohawk]

don't aim for middle of spec, aim for the maximum opposite the outage. So if the gap was loose aim for the tightest adjustment within spec achievable with available shims. If it was tight, then go for the loosest. This will give maximum mileage before they need doing again, and the valves will continue in their path loose getting looser & tight getting tighter.

[auggius]

Hmm, that makes sense but I already bought the shims.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MBrane]

I used a magnet to remove the bucket but it didn't work to keep the shim in place when I tried to put it back in. The one I used is telescopic, with a gooseneck on the end. It's a flashlight and the ring around the lens is magnetic. I thought maybe it didn't work because it wasn't magnetic in the middle where the shim was. So I tried a magetic block about the size of the bucket but that didn't work either. That's why I finally gave up and just put the shim directly on the top of the valve stem.

I finally gave up and just put the shim directly on the top of the valve stem.

thats the popper way to do it..

The Honda manual says "NOTE: Do not allow shims to fall into the crankcase .The shims may occasionally stick to the lifter..."

So the Honda manual warns about shims sticking to the lifter, quite the opposite from what it says in the manuals/howtos you read .

You did it the correct way: install shim => install bucket

Stick to the Honda Service Manual.

Yes putting the shim on top of the valve then installing the bucket is the correct way. I use the magnet just to be sure I don't fumble the shim when setting it on the valve.

I also use the magnet to remove the buckets because the combination of magnetic pull, and oil film almost guarantees you won't drop any shims down the hole.

[auggius]

Yes putting the shim on top of the valve then installing the bucket is the correct way. I use the magnet just to be sure I don't fumble the shim when setting it on the valve.

I also use the magnet to remove the buckets because the combination of magnetic pull, and oil film almost guarantees you won't drop any shims down the hole.

I used a couple of different magnets as shown in this picture - the small magnet on the left to place the shim on the valve stem, and the larger one in the middle to remove the bucket. It's a flashlight with telescopic, gooseneck head. The ring around the lens is magnetic. It's just a bit smaller than the diameter of the bucket.

[auggius]

Update - so I went and adjusting the valves today and now I have some valves that are tight that were okay before! These were valves that I did not change the shims. It's possible that I measured wrong before but I was very careful. Though apparently not careful enough. One valve where I did put a new shim in did not change. Not that's strange.

Any suggestions other than just go and re-do the tight valves? Was there something wrong in my method?

Man, I should have just left it alone!!!

[MBrane]

It takes some practice to get a feel for what the gauges are telling you. They sometimes lie when bending them.

It's good practice to make sure everything has a good coating of oil, and rotate the engine a few times to make sure everything is seated properly.

[auggius]

Yeah, I rotated the engine several times hoping that would help but no dice. So I took a deep breath and went back at it. I had enough shims left over to redo all the tight valves, except one. I put oil on the top of the bucket and on the cam lobes this time. Can't say that it made much difference though. Anyway, as frustrating as it was, it was a learning experience and I'm not as intimidated by it anymore.

[MBrane]

Some times it's our perception too. If you've been riding a bike with tight valves it will seem a little noisy when they are in spec. Those of us who have owned other vehicles with solid lifters know the difference between the proper soft ticking, and the loud tapping that tells you it's too loose.

[Switchblade]

Put it back the way it was . It was running ok ?

[auggius]

I haven't put it all together yet. Since I have come this far I need to get another shim to get everything good.

[auggius]

Update - everything back together and running fine. No change really in performance or sound. But still runs despite me, so that's good. And I fixed an oil leak that been nagging me for a couple of years. Just a few drops on the ground but annoying. It was the o-ring on the water pump shaft.

[MBrane]

still runs despite me

LOL

Thanks for the update.

[auggius]

still runs despite me

LOL

Thanks for the update.

Yeah, well when people say "when you do it yourself, you know it's done right" my motto is "when you do it yourself, you know who to blame when something goes wrong."

What I didn't say in my original update was that after putting on about 1000 km on the bike, it started leaking coolant. It was fine while I was bleeding the system, during a test ride and a commute to a conference in Victoria 900 km away. Rode around Victoria for a couple hours one evening, no problem. Rode 5 minutes to conference centre the last day there and had coolant leaking. All I had to do was tighten a hose clamp on the left side of the radiator and it was fixed, but luckily it didn't happen during any of my previous rides. Just a minor inconvenience and easy fix in the parking lot.

And during the ride home I had to tape up the tail section which had started to self-destruct with cracked pieces and loose lens covers. So next job is to patch it all up.... again.

[MBrane]

And during the ride home I had to tape up the tail section which had started to self-destruct with cracked pieces and loose lens covers. So next job is to patch it all up.... again.

Somebody went to a lot of trouble to repair the tail on my 94 with fiberglass. Only problem was they didn't get it straight, and eliminated the slots for the rear cowl. DOH! I have a brand new seat cowl in the plastic bag, and can't mount it.

[auggius]

My seat cowl has been used twice and otherwise sits on my shelf. This time I will repair the cracks and then glue it all together into a single unit and glue the lenses in too with silicone sealant.

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