2014 Updates For The 1200F?

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I really like the looks of my 1200F, I think it especially looks great in grey (pearl white is also very nice) and I've gotten a lot of compliments from many non-motorcyclists. It's not by any means pretty like a Ducati or an MV, even the 6th gen is also more elegant IMHO but... the 1200F has very interesting lines; I always turn and look at it after I park it. It's a personal thing, some of my friends don't care for it too much. I said this before, I think it's beautifully ugly , like the F-4 Phantom fighter jet...

[Volfy]

I think it's beautifully ugly , like the F-4 Phantom fighter jet...

... which, I presume, is some grades above "purposefully ugly", like A-10 Warthog. Love both planes. Saw an F4 at the CAF Museum in Midland, TX this past Summer, plus many of the earlier jets.

Being aesthetically challenged often is part of the charm of a machine. BMWs are a prime example. Quirky headlights did nothing to curb popularity of the GS and S1000RR. Guzzi's too.

That is a slick looking piece for the price. And I like the ability to actually adjust the tension...a nice touch. I look forward to hearing how it works for you.

Will do.

[luvtoleanit]

Thanks Luvtoleanit, I appreciate your post. Like I said I'm totally fine with disagreement, no problem there.

I really know what you mean about being miserly. I bought mine secondhand with just 2500 miles on the clock saving 27% over the list price but it still cost good money. I never paid this much for a motorcycle before... not at once anyway.

Well that was my point about your "wish list". All that stuff you previously listed, add 5-7K on top of what you paid for yours. Would you have bought it then? I doubt it, and Honda knows this which is why we got what we got. I certainly wouldn't have paid it. I bought mine new for 40% off MSRP here in the States. Any more than that and it wouldn't be sitting in my garage. I'd bet the same thing for most owners.

[arrow]

I was thinking about the ZX1000SX Ninja, the 2014 model has now has multi power modes and TC. It already had multi adjustable suspension. And the price hasn't changed compared to last year's model or changed very little IIRC. I would like those things on the VFR at the regular MSRP of course, and I feel Honda can comfortably do that...

I'm also thinking that Honda could offer a stripper model, without any electronic aids including the ABS perhaps. Less fancy paint, may be like the Ducati Dark models to lower the price...

[luvtoleanit]

See they can't. The 1000 Ninja uses an inline 4, which is surely a donor engine from something else. perhaps a detuned ZX10R, either from the new one, or previous generation. This is why that Ninja 1000 can have that stuff. The VFR1200 has an all new(er) engine built specifically for that bike. I know now they are sharing it across other platforms but that doesn't change the fact that it was R&D'd and built for the VFR and they haven't even recuperated cost of development yet on it. V4's cost a pretty penny more than an inline and in this case with a 1200 V4, a lot more. Honda has stated this over and over again. Perhaps on the next all new VFR they will have all that stuff.

[Volfy]

Aprilia's RSV4 and TuonoV4R are selling like hot cakes - at prices not a whole lot more than what Kawi is charging for ZX10R and Z1000/Ninja1000. If you have ever owned/ridden an ape, you'd know the quality of componentry the Italians use are typically far higher and costlier than what Japanese employ. Again, if Piaggio can make money selling Aprilia, at their relatively low production volume, why can't Honda do it at their far higher production volume and better economies of scale?

[2thdr]

It may come down to something called passion...I think Honda may have lost that somewhere along the way

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See they can't. The 1000 Ninja uses an inline 4, which is surely a donor engine from something else. perhaps a detuned ZX10R, either from the new one, or previous generation. This is why that Ninja 1000 can have that stuff. The VFR1200 has an all new(er) engine built specifically for that bike. I know now they are sharing it across other platforms but that doesn't change the fact that it was R&D'd and built for the VFR and they haven't even recuperated cost of development yet on it. V4's cost a pretty penny more than an inline and in this case with a 1200 V4, a lot more. Honda has stated this over and over again. Perhaps on the next all new VFR they will have all that stuff.

AFAIK the engine is a 1052-ish cc i-4, purposely built for the Z1000, 1000 Ninja and the Versys 1000. It probably cost less than the unicam V4 though...

What I meant was that the 2013 model Ninja didn't have TC and power modes, and the 2014 model has them and costs 100 USD less as Volfy said in another topic. TC and power modes are mostly SW, and they don't cost too much to manifacture. Most of the HW is already there on the VFR (TBW, ABS sensors etc...)

The revised Crosstourer will be on sale in Turkey next year. Let's wait and see if the power modes will increase the price, I'm betting it won't. It already has TC, and it cost the same as the 2010 VFR when that came out.

These things at the end, won't make the Veefalo better but it may help Honda sell more of them to more people.

Me, I'm seriously considering the possibilities, like Bazzaz, Helibars, Öhlins shocks and revalved forks etc :-) ...

[VICARA]

I think the problem with sales are that no aftermarket went after it like kawas and Suzuki have parts even before they are out in the market mi DCT stay stock just for that reason but I love every mile out of it by the way the same day I purchase the vfr I was looking to spend 10k on a used zx14 and the sales guy said I could get a new ninja 1000 for the same cash then I looked at the z1000 which I really like but I found this bikes have components in mi own way of looking at it cheap and old then I saw this beautiful brand new vfr with all the features I like to make this shorter I just bought it even they couldn't start it they said it was dry no oil gas or battery when I pick it up next week I was surprised it sounded like a jetson's mobile but I fell in love going back home mi surprise was when I tried to make some changes I didn't find parts for mi bike other than exhaust.

[DangerousDave]

I think the problem with sales are that no aftermarket went after it like kawas and Suzuki

I think it's just the opposite. The aftermarket manufacturers don't want to spend lots of R&D time and money on a bike with limited sales. Overall though, I'd say the availability of aftermarket parts isn't too awful for this bike. Most of what it REALLY needs is out there. But no, you probably won't find any cool rearsets from Vortex or Woodcraft or C/F bodywork (although there are C/F lowers and huggers out there!). But no shortage of slip-ons, fuel managers, windscreens, luggage, seats, handlebar options, levers, stands, sliders, etc. What more did you want??

[VICARA]

does the fuel management work with DTC?

[Gyice]

I really think most if not all of the Nay Sayers regarding the VFR 1200 are people who don't own it. I love my little Blue 1200 it rides great allows me to eat miles like no ones business can pass or keep up with anything out there and tours far better than or equal too any of the supposed Great tourers. Anyway don't really care, I kind of like everyone talking about a bike they have never thrown a leg over especially the DCT, keeps the price down. Anyone out there who doesn't like the bike enjoy what ever bike you have, but I can tell you that the bike up ahead that the rider just finished an 8 hour ride on with a Big trucken Smile on his face, well that guy is riding the VFR1200 and if he's really smart the DCT version.

[BiKenG]

This seems to be something of a bike design/philosophy thread so I thought I'd chime in, albeit a little late.

What I want is a VFR1200S, i.e. a naked version. But, I'm not complaining about the current VFR1200F, because that's pointless. I might as well complain that a ZX1000 doesn't have a V4 engine. If anything, I should take issue with Honda for not making a VFR1200S, but instead I'm going to build my own, as I have previously indicated that I will do, but since been distracted by other projects. Not for much longer though.

However, as far as the current VFR1200F goes, it is certainly a great bike, but for some reason seems to invite controversy. Yes, its styling is quirky, but there's plenty uglier bikes out there that people still seem to love. Seems to me that the idea of a V4 1200 gets more people excited and since one bike can only appeal to a limited number of actual riders, that means there'll be more pissed off non-customers than if Honda had chosen a different configuration that fewer wanted in the first place.

For me, I'm just not interested in a fully faired bike. I used to be, but now just see it as a path to losing my license (especially when combined with low handlebars). Fairings are either for weather protection or aerodynamics and I have no need of either. But I do love the 1200 V4 concept and I think Ariel has hit upon a terrific idea. But for that money, I can make my own VFR1200S AND have another bike.

Having said that, I think there are aspects of the VFR1200F that Honda got either wrong, or not quite right. It is a bit on the heavy side. Not as much as many would have you believe though. How heavy is a fully fuelled BlackBird? Or a 'dry' VFR1200. I doubt there's as much difference between those bikes as journalists seem to want you to believe. Currently (in the UK at least) they do seem to have a big downer on Honda and any reference to the VFR1200 is made alongside derogatory comments about its weight when other bikes of the same weight, or close to, receive no such criticism.

Tank range. Hm. That's a thorny issue. I've ridden a lot through Europe on long trips with many different other riders and I've NEVER ridden with anyone who wanted to ride for even 150 miles without stopping. It seems to me that it's a bigger issue when doing multiple shorter trips as you find you need to fill up say every day, when a bigger tank might allow several days between fill ups. However, there has never been as much of a problem on the VFR1200 as the bike press liked to claim. I have seen the same journalist complain bitterly at the meagre 160 ml range available on a VFR1200, yet state that the similar range on a Ducati Multistrada was absolutely acceptable. In fact a VFR1200 can achieve higher than that, but I wouldn't complain at an additional 20% range and I'm of the opinion that this could have been achieved. That they did not would indicate a mistake on the part of their design team.

Electronics. Well, I'm not a lover of them for a variety of reasons. First of all, they generally try to provide something I really don't want. I cannot argue against ABS, except that I really don't want it. For me, the essence of riding a bike is learning and becoming expert at how to do it and then hugely enjoying doing it. Just being able to grab the brake as hard as you want at any time, just, well, wouldn't provide such pleasure. OK if it prevents an accident, it's hard to argue against it. But I still don't want it. There are no statistics that prove it's even successful in cars for reducing accidents. Fact is, drivers just drive faster to compensate. That's the human condition.

Traction Control is almost worse since there is even less of an argument for its value. The throttle should be all the TC you need. However, I did recently have an accident on a bike when the rear stepped out violently and threw me off. It was very wet at the time and on a slight curve with no reason for me to be hard on the throttle. In fact, it appeared to be something VERY slippery on the road. Would TC have helped? In theory yes, but in practice would it have really prevented the accident? Of course there's no way to tell, but do I now want TC on my bike. No.

Mostly, the electronic revolution in bikes is being foisted on us for marketing reasons. They can't improve bikes in any other way. There's nothing left to improve. Performance and handling already far surpass what is possible to use on the road, so how can they convince us to buy new bikes? Keep telling us we need something else, when in truth, we really do NOT need fancy power modes. If they use Throttle By Wire appropriately, there would be no need for different power modes. Ah TBW, why do we need that? Well, if you imagine a 10 hp engine, each 10% throttle travel increases power by 1 hp. But on a 100 hp bike, it unleashes another 10 hp for each 10% of throttle rotation. This obviously makes it far harder to control. Small movements means huge variations in power to the rear wheel and leads to a jerky ride.

OK, so I really simplified that as the relationship is not completely linear, but it does illustrate the point. So you might want to use a Slow Action Throttle for better control. But that means lots of turning to get to full throttle. That's where TBW comes in. They can map the twistgrip rotation to the throttle butterflies however they want. In fact, they can make it progressive so at low speed it's like a Slow Action Throttle, but then at higher throttle openings, it becomes faster acting. What the variable power modes mean really is that they've not got this right so you have to mess with it. Most recently I've ridden the new KTM SuperDuke R 1290 and what a great bike that is. However, I could leave it in Sport mode the whole time as it's pretty smooth. So what's the point of the other modes? The new Ducati Monster 1200S however benefits from switching away from Sport mode when in town. But do I really want that hassle, having to switch all the time. No, not at all. With all the fancy electronics they should be able to get it right under all conditions so the rider doesn't have to faff with it, and faff is exactly what it is. Quite frankly, there's enough to worry about riding a fast bike on the roads without having to mess with this stuff.

And then there's reliability. All this stuff works great on a new bike. What about when they're 10 years old? 20 years? No-one really knows. When it does fail, the little black box of electronics will cost more to replace than the bike is worth and that's even if the manufacturer still has the part available, which I doubt. Am I being pessimistic, yes, probably, but on a recent trip, my riding companion on his BMW K1300R had less to be smug about than he normally is (crowing about changing his suspension settings to suit the road conditions, with the flick of a switch) when the system failed and he was stuck in whatever it happened to be in at the time (ho, ho :-). As it then had to remain until our return and he had to take it to his dealer to fix.

I'm not totally against electronics. Fuel injection, electronic ignition are a given, but I also love a good QuickShifter and believe that TBW has a great future (not only in getting rid of unsightly and impossible to adjust throttle cables). TBW has been alluded to elsewhere with a discussion about Cruise Control as once a bike has TBW, CC is just programming. I don't even think you'd need any additional switchgear with a bit of clever thought and utilisation of a bike's current facilities. CC is not just for the long haul. In the car it's a license saver when you can set it to the speed limit and then not have to worry about the trivial fact of drifting over the limit and finding that cost you either some of your hard earned cash, your license or even your liberty in some cases now here in the UK.

So, do I think the VFR is really lacking some of these fancy gizmos. No, I applaud Honda for steering clear. However I do believe that what they do provide should work perfectly. I realise they have to abide by stringent regulations with regard to emissions etc, but I still cannot believe they couldn't do better than they have done when people like Guhl can make such a better job of the ECU programming.

But should it have bigger luggage and a HUGE tank. No. It's not a tourer. Buy something else if you want that. Should it be featherweight light. No, it's not a sports bike. By trying to fit in between those genres, it is bound to disappoint riders who want either of those, but for what it is, there's not a lot wrong with it. Shame more people just don't see that.

[Vfr88]

Well said !

You said " Yes, its styling is quirky". I have been thinking what to do to make the bike better looking, but always I come to the same result; the original is better. What would you change in the looks?

It is funny. The model is already 4 years old but there is still no other bike on the market that I would like to change it to .

[BiKenG]

I've never liked the line of the underside of the tank, it's simply wrong. However, if you take the small in-fill panels from below the rear of the tank (small triangular plastic panels) and paint them tank colour, it changes the apparent shape of the tank to a far more 'tank like' shape and improves the side appearance no end. Even on a black bike where the problem is less pronounced, if you painted them gloss black it would make a marked improvement.

The rest is hard to improve with just re-finishing. I think the front looks too blunt (it's not really, but the pointy bit is clear so you hardly see it) but it's impossible to alter. As you say, it's hard to improve, but not because it's already so good, but because the changes required are so fundamental that it's all but impossible to achieve. I stopped thinking about it when I realised I wanted a naked version and have concentrated instead on how I want that to look as I have some control over that.

Of course for 2015 there may be a re-styled version, even a VFR1200S, but just have to wait and see on that.

[crazybrother]

I like mine but i'm not telling anybody...

[Skids]

This seems to be something of a bike design/philosophy thread so I thought I'd chime in, albeit a little late.

What I want is a VFR1200S, i.e. a naked version.

I do like the new Ariel Ace. Naked with VFR1200 engine. Not cheap mind you.

Here and here.

[BiKenG]

I do like the new Ariel Ace. Naked with VFR1200 engine. Not cheap mind you.

Here and here.

Yes, I did mention that, but as you point out, it will be expensive. If money was no object then I'd have one of them anyway, but I can have 2 bikes for that price which makes more sense for me. Also, I actually like the idea of making my own VFR1200S, so it's just for me and unique. I did that with a FireBlade a couple of years ago and not only is it a great bike (that preceded anything BMW offers by a few years), but it IS unique. NO-ONE else has one and I like that.

If you're interested, this is it: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3ncaz56xe7stlcg/AAAGdry_fx0B9sxPP2xd60xsa

[crazybrother]

I do like the new Ariel Ace. Naked with VFR1200 engine. Not cheap mind you.

Here and here.

Yes, I did mention that, but as you point out, it will be expensive. If money was no object then I'd have one of them anyway, but I can have 2 bikes for that price which makes more sense for me. Also, I actually like the idea of making my own VFR1200S, so it's just for me and unique. I did that with a FireBlade a could of years ago and not only is it a great bike (that preceded anything BMW offers by a few years), but it IS unique. NO-ONE else has one and I like that.

If you're interested, this is it: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3ncaz56xe7stlcg/AAAGdry_fx0B9sxPP2xd60xsa

It looks like Honda copied you when they made the CB1000R.

Nice BTW, I always Love it when people like you, take something and make it your own. I would do the same if I had the talent.

[Skids]

I do like the new Ariel Ace. Naked with VFR1200 engine. Not cheap mind you.

Here and here.

Yes, I did mention that, but as you point out, it will be expensive. If money was no object then I'd have one of them anyway, but I can have 2 bikes for that price which makes more sense for me. Also, I actually like the idea of making my own VFR1200S, so it's just for me and unique. I did that with a FireBlade a could of years ago and not only is it a great bike (that preceded anything BMW offers by a few years), but it IS unique. NO-ONE else has one and I like that.

If you're interested, this is it: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3ncaz56xe7stlcg/AAAGdry_fx0B9sxPP2xd60xsa

Can't open that link at work but I'll take a look when I get home.

My skills are too limited to make a decent one-off and I can't afford to pay someone else to do a proper job so I'm limited to what I can buy and stock mods/accessories.

I'd be very interested in seeing your 1200S when it's complete!

[BiKenG]

It looks like Honda copied you when they made the CB1000R.

Nice BTW, I always Love it when people like you, take something and make it your own. I would do the same if I had the talent.

I've given up hoping Honda would take any notice of me and of course the CB1000R was out some years before I made my FireFighter. In any case, my bike really IS a FireBlade underneath, whereas the CB1000R has been seriously dummed down with an emasculated engine, steel frame, linkless Rr suspension, lower spec suspension generally etc, etc. Mine really is a FireBlade, yet comfortable and still a hoot to ride, without encouraging >100mph speeds. In fact positively DIScouraging it.

But it is still an in-line 4 engine which is therefore buzzy and frenetic, hence my desire to do the same sort of thing to a VFR1200 as that has a peach of a V4 engine.

Can't open that link at work but I'll take a look when I get home.

My skills are too limited to make a decent one-off and I can't afford to pay someone else to do a proper job so I'm limited to what I can buy and stock mods/accessories.

I'd be very interested in seeing your 1200S when it's complete!

The link does seem to be working, I did check it. Should work when you try again from home.

I understand that not everyone has the time or experience to make such modifications and what I've done is no-where near what the real custom shops can do, but then they don't actually produce anything I have the slightest interest in.

I started hacking bikes together many years ago when I worked for Honda UK. There was plenty of opportunity to try fitting different parts together, often with surprising results. It just costs a lot more now :-(

I'll post some info about my VFR1200S when I've completed the first stage. I intend doing it over the winter period so I can use it next year.

[arrow]

I'd be very interested in a de-stroked / de-bored 1000 cc, chain-driven, multi-adjustable suspensioned version of the 1200F with sportier styling...

Meanwhile I'll be happy to ride around on my modified 1200F...

[Skids]

It looks like Honda copied you when they made the CB1000R.

Nice BTW, I always Love it when people like you, take something and make it your own. I would do the same if I had the talent.

I've given up hoping Honda would take any notice of me and of course the CB1000R was out some years before I made my FireFighter. In any case, my bike really IS a FireBlade underneath, whereas the CB1000R has been seriously dummed down with an emasculated engine, steel frame, linkless Rr suspension, lower spec suspension generally etc, etc. Mine really is a FireBlade, yet comfortable and still a hoot to ride, without encouraging >100mph speeds. In fact positively DIScouraging it.

But it is still an in-line 4 engine which is therefore buzzy and frenetic, hence my desire to do the same sort of thing to a VFR1200 as that has a peach of a V4 engine.

Can't open that link at work but I'll take a look when I get home.

My skills are too limited to make a decent one-off and I can't afford to pay someone else to do a proper job so I'm limited to what I can buy and stock mods/accessories.

I'd be very interested in seeing your 1200S when it's complete!

The link does seem to be working, I did check it. Should work when you try again from home.

I understand that not everyone has the time or experience to make such modifications and what I've done is no-where near what the real custom shops can do, but then they don't actually produce anything I have the slightest interest in.

I started hacking bikes together many years ago when I worked for Honda UK. There was plenty of opportunity to try fitting different parts together, often with surprising results. It just costs a lot more now :-(

I'll post some info about my VFR1200S when I've completed the first stage. I intend doing it over the winter period so I can use it next year.

Link works fine at home (work Pcs are highly restricted).

Very nice looking bike m8.

Makes me all the more interested in the 1200S.

[V4 Rosso]

Not a 2014 update but saw this when browsing an accessories brochure: 08U70-MGE-D50 DCT pedal shift kit. Anyone that has installed one of these on their DCT?