Member Contributer arrow Posted November 11, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted November 11, 2013 I was checking the latest MCN and it seems that the 2014 Crosstourer has self cancelling blinkers, a new seat, a new ignition key (grooved like latest car keys), performance updates for the DCT and most importantly something called selectable torque control system where the rider is able to select three different levels of engine torque control. I guess that means power modes, right? Do you think the 2014 1200F will benefit from these updates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volfy Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I'd be surprised if Honda doesn't furlough VFR1200 for one year. Dealers still have 2012 blue ones unsold, not to mention 2013 black ones. They need to chit or get off the pot. Either revamp it to be marketable and competitive, or kill it out of its current misery. Kawasaki fixed a bunch customer complaints on the C14 after 2 model years. Same thing on the Ninja 1000 after 3yrs. How hard is it for Honda to do the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer thor294 Posted November 12, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted November 12, 2013 maybe we can get one for like $5000 at that point honduh is losing their footing in the sport touring scene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete2 Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Kawasaki fixed a bunch customer complaints on the C14 after 2 model years. Same thing on the Ninja 1000 after 3yrs. How hard is it for Honda to do the same? I don't see that there is so many things to be fixed and I still think that it is the best bike on the market as far as I am concerned. Maybe it is just the general thing; all the bikes are not selling right now. Honda changed quite a lot of things in 2012. No major but anyhow. I find it a little sad that all the produces have their eye only on bmw gs -type bikes (MVAgusta has their version now also). But I agree; it would be a nice thing to see a new version of a otherwise good bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer arrow Posted November 12, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 12, 2013 I'm starting to like my bike more and more after a rocky start (the ECU died after the update and was replaced under warranty). The thing is that the 1200 isn't an easy bike to get along with. Like it or not, the big adventure bikes are its competition. These bikes are more comfortable, have more features and some are almost as powerful. Unless Honda does something to create interest in this bike, it will be discontinued. Even the 1200F owners aren't thrilled about the (possible) updates, look how few commented on this topic. The 8th generation VFR800 on the other hand, created a posting frenzy that doesn't seem like it's going to slow down after a week. What do you guys think Honda should do, to create more interest in the 1200F and turn its fortunes around? Dropping 50 pounds weight would be a great place to start but not realistic, so what can it do in the current platform? I think it could really use the new engine power modes backed up with a multilevel TC. I also believe that it should have the adjustable seat and standard grip heaters and higher&wider clip-ons as standard (this is too heavy a bike to have such a sporty lean IMHO). Tricker suspension allowing on the fly adjustments (like BMW ESA or better yet semi-active suspension) should at least be an option. The new Bosch ABS system allowing usage of brakes during corners would be nice as well. Perhaps a visual update to make it look sleeker from the front, as this part of the design seems to be criticized the most. I personally think that the 1200F is beautifully ugly ... I know it's not going to happen, it's very likely that Honda will kill the 1200 in a few years but you never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete2 Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I know it's not going to happen, it's very likely that Honda will kill the 1200 in a few years but you never know. I don't believe that. They are using the same engine in other bikes so it makes no sense to drop the vfr. The upgrade should be like it normally is; more power, several power maps, better electronics, different looks and less weight, It should at least have a better mapping in the very low end. I hope they don't loose the several layer screen as it is very good with almost zero turbulense. It is not the best looking but works great . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted November 12, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted November 12, 2013 You know what's even more humiliating Honda will cut the price on the 7th gens and the 8th gens will be priced higher and sale more units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volfy Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Much of the criticisms about the VFR1200 falls into 2 camps: 1. Not being touring-oriented enough. These are the riders who really should be looking at the ST1300 but aren't, because that old girl desperately needs an update. Instead, they look to the VFR1200F to compete with C14, FJR, etc. That kind of riding is not the VFR1200's forte, and folks will continue to be disappointed. Honda could either use the ST1300's V4, or something along the lines of the VFR1200T that was long rumored but never materialized. 2. Too heavy. These are riders that wants an open class sportbike, along the lines of the venerable Blackbird, ZX14R and Busa. I, myself, loosely fall in this category (though not exactly, as I do like to tour some). This problem can only be fixed if Honda has another worthy ST to do touring duty. Then they can re-optimize the "F" for more performance-oriented riding. I am guessing Honda is re-introducing the 2014 VFR800 to take care of Problem #2 above. To be followed by the VFR1200T soon after to address Problem #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer luvtoleanit Posted November 12, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted November 12, 2013 I'm starting to like my bike more and more after a rocky start (the ECU died after the update and was replaced under warranty). The thing is that the 1200 isn't an easy bike to get along with. Like it or not, the big adventure bikes are its competition. These bikes are more comfortable, have more features and some are almost as powerful. Unless Honda does something to create interest in this bike, it will be discontinued. I think it could really use the new engine power modes backed up with a multilevel TC. I also believe that it should have the adjustable seat and standard grip heaters and higher&wider clip-ons as standard (this is too heavy a bike to have such a sporty lean IMHO). Tricker suspension allowing on the fly adjustments (like BMW ESA or better yet semi-active suspension) should at least be an option. The new Bosch ABS system allowing usage of brakes during corners would be nice as well. Perhaps a visual update to make it look sleeker from the front, as this part of the design seems to be criticized the most. I personally think that the 1200F is beautifully ugly ... I beg to differ sir. It's an extremely easy bike to get along with. The adventure bikes aren't its' competition, sport tourers are. Perhaps you should say that adventure bikes are YOUR competition. With the way the 1200 handles, and the HP/TQ, I'd leave an adventure bike for dead on twisty roads. A few corners and a straight, see ya. I have multi power modes on my R1, it's not that big of a deal at all. Nothing my right wrist can't do. TC, again, is overrated IMO. My 1200 has the OEM heated grips so Honda does offer that as an accessory. Heli-bars work great, higher and wider. Electronic suspension or sem-active would just make the thing even more expensive, and from what the guys who own the Pan S, say, it's gimmicky. If you are a bike-market-maven reading the fine print of every new bike, every year, you are always going to be disappointed. You are either going to have to upgrade every single year or be content. I'd prefer no ABS and no linked brakes too. The beauty of a motorcycle, as far as engineering, is in the chassis and the power delivery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted November 12, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted November 12, 2013 Well thought out .. Sounds good to me, I just hope daddy Honda reading this .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer arrow Posted November 12, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 12, 2013 Honda just released the CTX1300 based on the ST1300, so I don't think Honda is ready to put the ST1300 out to pasture yet. In fact, I'm thinking that they just might update it a little bit; the fairing on the other tourer cruiser, the GoldWing based F6B is almost the same as the current GoldWing. The new upper fairing on the new CTX may be shared with a yet to be released ST1300, which might have updated suspension, engine and other touring amenities. I'd be surprised if they released a VFR1200T. The new 800 is really nice, but I don't think I could go back to 800's torque level, after getting spoiled by the 1200... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted November 12, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted November 12, 2013 I check with Southern Powersports in Chattanooga and they have 8 brand new units and I would say thats a common number with the big dealership's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted November 12, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted November 12, 2013 Here's a upgrade: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer arrow Posted November 12, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 12, 2013 I beg to differ sir. It's an extremely easy bike to get along with. The adventure bikes aren't its' competition, sport tourers are. Perhaps you should say that adventure bikes are YOUR competition. With the way the 1200 handles, and the HP/TQ, I'd leave an adventure bike for dead on twisty roads. A few corners and a straight, see ya. I have multi power modes on my R1, it's not that big of a deal at all. Nothing my right wrist can't do. TC, again, is overrated IMO. My 1200 has the OEM heated grips so Honda does offer that as an accessory. Heli-bars work great, higher and wider. Electronic suspension or sem-active would just make the thing even more expensive, and from what the guys who own the Pan S, say, it's gimmicky. If you are a bike-market-maven reading the fine print of every new bike, every year, you are always going to be disappointed. You are either going to have to upgrade every single year or be content. I'd prefer no ABS and no linked brakes too. The beauty of a motorcycle, as far as engineering, is in the chassis and the power delivery. It's not an easy bike to use in the city or in the bumpy roads and I'm not the only one in this forum saying this . All I'm saying that, higher bars and power modes (instead of a limiter in first two gears) would help in those situations. The gimmicky stuff (multilevel traction control, electronic suspension etc) can and should be offered optionally, I agree. Honestly, ABS is something I won't do without, and though I can certainly handle the throttle, having something that watches your back such as TC is nothing to be scoffed at. I think adventure bikes ARE competition for the 1200F as well as other sporttourers.. Before the advent of these bikes, the VFR was the do-it-all bike and people bought them by the boat loads. They (adventure bikes) are easier (I'm not saying more satisfying, that's a totally different thing) to ride. And I'm sure, you'd go at least as fast on a new KTM Adventure 1190 as you would on your VFR down a twisty road or down the straights (it's nearly as powerful and lighter to boot); I know I did when I tested one. It's not me that need to be convinced by the way, I see many people here (in my country) who tried the 1200F and then went out and bought an adventure bike. Some actually bought the Crosstourer (which is still good for Honda). All the while, the 1200F is gathering dust in the showrooms and even in secondhand sales and this seems to be the case in the States and Europe as well. Honda might change this trend, it needs to convince people that the 1200 can be docile around town, easy to handle in the tight and twisty stuff. Better fueling at the bottom of the rev range coupled with TC and power modes, and with a slightly more upright seating position (like the Helibars) should help. I don't expect adventure bike levels of comfort or bump absorption. It needs to be improved to the point where people can better appreciate its other values, such as that great torquey V4 engine, beautiful detailing, and unique styling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crakerjac Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 The only complaints I have about the bike is city driving. My magna is happy just chugging along in stop and go traffic in first gear... VFR takes a bit more clutch work. I think it's a great 'sporty' bike that is LD capable. Last August I took my VFR12 for a week long 3200 mile bike trip. Not once was I wishing I was on something else. Best part was, when we got to some twisty mountain roads, I had a bike that excels in this area... not cbr600 excels, but enough to make the whole trip worth while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volfy Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Adv tourers are cannibalizing sales from other genres of bikes, including ST's. To say that's competition for VFR1200 is like saying SUV's compete directly with minivans. People's taste in cars/bikes simply change over time, so they migrate to a different category. I doubt seriously Honda will revamp the ST1300. With the CTX1300, Honda is clearly merging that longtitudinal V4 platform in with the GL's longitudinal flat6. Makes sense, since the curb weight issue is much less sensitive with the bagger crowd. It'll be tought to have a redesigned ST1300 that is significantly lighter-weight than the current 730 lbs beast. OTOH, a VFR1200T probably won't weigh much more than the F's 600 lbs curbe weight. That can be a significant advantage in the full-on sport touring segment. I do agree, though, that the new 800 - as nice as it may be - just won't do it for me. Once I've tasted the more potent fruit, it's hard to go back to sub-litre class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer hvfrdave Posted November 12, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted November 12, 2013 Why fix, when there is nothing broken. The VFR1200 is a cracking bike as it is, yes electronic suspension would be nice, but the price would not be. Just leave well alone, and include rear hugger, centre stand, and heated grips, as standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 The VFR1200 being a sales flop must be starting to shake up Honda Corp.... Could the upcoming new 800 be a sign that they are finally starting to kinda listen to their customers on what they always wanted for years on their VFRs?? If the new 800 still seems to be a half baked solution, it still could be a good sign of things to come.... We can always continue to hope that is the case.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer luvtoleanit Posted November 13, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted November 13, 2013 It's not an easy bike to use in the city or in the bumpy roads and I'm not the only one in this forum saying this . All I'm saying that, higher bars and power modes (instead of a limiter in first two gears) would help in those situations. The gimmicky stuff (multilevel traction control, electronic suspension etc) can and should be offered optionally, I agree. Honestly, ABS is something I won't do without, and though I can certainly handle the throttle, having something that watches your back such as TC is nothing to be scoffed at. I think adventure bikes ARE competition for the 1200F as well as other sporttourers.. Before the advent of these bikes, the VFR was the do-it-all bike and people bought them by the boat loads. They (adventure bikes) are easier (I'm not saying more satisfying, that's a totally different thing) to ride. And I'm sure, you'd go at least as fast on a new KTM Adventure 1190 as you would on your VFR down a twisty road or down the straights (it's nearly as powerful and lighter to boot); I know I did when I tested one. It's not me that need to be convinced by the way, I see many people here (in my country) who tried the 1200F and then went out and bought an adventure bike. Some actually bought the Crosstourer (which is still good for Honda). All the while, the 1200F is gathering dust in the showrooms and even in secondhand sales and this seems to be the case in the States and Europe as well. Honda might change this trend, it needs to convince people that the 1200 can be docile around town, easy to handle in the tight and twisty stuff. Better fueling at the bottom of the rev range coupled with TC and power modes, and with a slightly more upright seating position (like the Helibars) should help. I don't expect adventure bike levels of comfort or bump absorption. It needs to be improved to the point where people can better appreciate its other values, such as that great torquey V4 engine, beautiful detailing, and unique styling. I have 0 problems in the city or on bumpy roads, a non-issue for me. But I don't ride in the dirt, my roads are all paved. And I will reiterate that I have power modes on the R1 and it's a joke so I don't use it. It stays in A mode (full power Mr. Sulu) 100% of the time. My right wrist determines the power level. I see no need for electronic systems put in place to do what my right wrist can, for a simpler bike, less things to break or go wrong, less weight, less complexity, etc. ABS sucks in my opinion as well. I'm fine with it on my bike but I sure wish there was a button to disable it for track riding. I like it in the rain but that is about it. Like traction control, I believe the marketed benefit is much greater than reality. I've had it kick in on the 1200 a few times where I'm rolling my eyes in my helmet actually as the R1 doesn't have it and I ride both on the same tarmac, turns, roads, etc. Having used TC before, it's mostly for lap times in my opinion. So I will continue to scoff at its' marketed benefits. If I hit a patch of oil I'm going down with or without TC, it won't help. It helps when your skill doesn't match your throttle inputs however, and will help you drop a few tenths at the track. I tried a few adventure bikes before I bought my VFR to see what all the hype was about. I did some extended time on a Superten, and rode a Multistrada. The Multistrada was nice but the SuperTen, no way in hell could I be as fast on that monstrosity as I could the VFR, not in this universe. At high speed I'll take the VFR any day of the week. I wasn't even cross shopping the two types of bikes because to me they are completely different. I only rode them to see what it was all about. The Multi was nice but didn't like the rake/trail for twisty work. For a commuter and occasional twisty road, I would say yes, it might be the better bike for some. The VFR is docile around town for me, handles just fine in the twisty stuff, low or high speed. I don't have any of these issues with it. The fueling is fine but on any bike I remap it anyways for my environment after OEM restrictions are removed. The only issue Honda screwed the pooch on was the MSRP. Once that changed people have been scooping them up here. They priced it too high and learned their lesson. I don't want a more upright riding position. It's a couch already. I added the helibars only to spread the bars out, wide, because I'm 6'2". But I bought them 2nd hand and if I had to pay new price I wouldn't have bothered. I would actually like the rearsets higher, more aggressive, but it's not anything I'm going to complain about. I will complain that nobody in the aftermarket is too keen to make rearsets for it Stock it's already got a good riding position. It is supposed to stay some what sport as it is a sport tourer leaning to the more sports side of the equation. What it is not is a ST, or adventure bike, and I hope it stays that way, there are bikes out there for that. The way some people kick on about this, it honestly sounds like they want a cruiser riding position. The VFR has always had this slightly upright sporting riding position. I've owned a few of them over the years and it's always been this way. People complaining about this falls on deaf ears AFAIC. The folks this isn't good enough for, simply buy some Helis and are done with it. You are trying to make the VFR into something it's not and was never intended to be. There are other bikes in their portfolio for that. Power modes, electronic suspension, and the like will only increase cost and they've learned that lesson. You bought the wrong bike for you so sell it and buy an adventure bike. Complaining on here is not going to change anything. To me, and many others, it's a cracking bike, and is an outstanding do it all. You can commute on it easily, handles twisty work like a sport bike, handles touring like a tourer that can handle, and can do trackdays. What it isn't is a boat and it was never intended to go off the pavement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer arrow Posted November 13, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 13, 2013 I don't mean to prelong this, but are you even reading my posts? Where the heck did I even suggest that I ride off-road? How can suggesting that Honda might perhaps offer slightly higher and wider bars like Helibars as standard (something they're already doing with the new 800) mean that I'm expecting a cruiser style bike? I merely asked a question. Would it be possible for Honda to increase the sales of the 1200F by giving it a nudge here and there? That's it. Because no matter how you might enjoy your bike, it's not selling well and I feel it deserves better. Many people here modify their bikes so they might give some good insight and may be, just may be, Honda will listen and come up with a 9th gen 1200. A bit less weight, adjustable seat, handlebar etc. You know kind of like what they did with the 800. Some people like gadgets, so having a few might help sell a few more 1200Fs, or may be not. Mine was a suggestion, if you think these wouldn't help sell more then just say so. Just because you don't need/want it, doesn't mean nobody would either, sorry but that just doesn't make sense to me. I'm not complaining about anything by the way. We are just talking about bikes. That's the reason for this forum, right? So please spare me the you don't like it then sell it preach 'cause I already know that. What's easier to do is to perhaps just stop reading this topic because apparently it offends you on some level. I wasn't planning on writing anything before I saw your post anyway, so I guess we can just let it die... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer luvtoleanit Posted November 13, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted November 13, 2013 Too much whining already about it. it already has upright seating btw. And they've made heli bars for gens 5, 6, 7, etc. I've never owned or ridden a bike that I was happy with stock. I correct what I want changed in the aftermarket. Contact your Honda dealer in your area. Write them a letter with changes you think they should make. See if it does any good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volfy Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 This is a VFR1200 forum, huh? Everybody is free to express opinion. Just because I don't agree doesn't make it whining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Why fix, when there is nothing broken. The VFR1200 is a cracking bike as it is pretty much how I feel exactly. superb bike for covering ground at a good clip, and when you get to a good set of twisties it is good to go. I love the bike, it's going to be remembered someday as being something special. Yes, it's overpriced and I wouldn't own one if I hadn't got a helluva deal....but I'm glad I did. Bags, centerstand, heated grips - all should be part of the package at current msrp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volfy Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Bags, centerstand, heated grips - all should be part of the package at current msrp. Especially since they would cost Honda only a fraction of what they cost us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangerousDave Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Bags, centerstand, heated grips - all should be part of the package at current msrp. +1. At current MSRP, it should already come with almost everything in the accessory catalog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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