Guest StillwaterVFR Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Hi - any help here would be great - Tank was near empty, so I went and filled up fully and hit the road. I went about 5 miles at 65 MPH and the bike began to lose power in a similar manner to running out of gas... pretty much losing power progressively until a rolling stall occurred, all in about 1/2 of a mile. I had a few tight turns in the 5 miles. Tried to restart, she sputtered a few times and then I was just running the battery down from there. Called the wife for a ride! Fuel: Any ideas on this? The red fuel light was on for a good 15+ miles before this. No petcock on 1991 RC36. Electrical: New R/R is in. Old wiring harness still being used. Thanks - poor thing is still on the side of the highway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Vacuum petcock not functioning properly? Air leak or bad diaphragm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer SamW Posted April 3, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted April 3, 2012 Try opening the tank again, see if you get any vacuum when you do, then close and try to restart, could be a clogged vent line or something like that. Also check the fuse for the fuel pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I will look at both of these suggestions before later tonight when I get the bike back to the garage .... more questions to follow, I'm sure. Other suggestions also welcomed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Try opening the tank again, see if you get any vacuum when you do, then close and try to restart, could be a clogged vent line or something like that. Also check the fuse for the fuel pump. Also - I filled up with the bike level and me on it due to time .... I closed the cap with the bike level as well ... this might mess with the vent lines. Think so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rice Posted April 3, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted April 3, 2012 Also - I filled up with the bike level and me on it due to time .... I closed the cap with the bike level as well ... this might mess with the vent lines. Think so? This would not cause an issue. How long ago has the RR been changed and how many miles have you ridden since you've changed it or done any other work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MaxSwell Posted April 3, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted April 3, 2012 Hey Stillwater, Richfield here. My bike died on a trip to the North Shore last summer. The first indications were of a bad battery. I had it replaced in Duluth. Then, about 50 miles later, up around Silver Bay, it started to show symptoms similar to yours. (The 01 had about 80,000 miles on the original electrical system). Shortly after that is died (would not start). After having it towed back to Mpls. Honda Town diagnosed a failed R/R and a tosted stator. They could tell the R/R was bad but could not diagnose the stator. I gave the go-ahead to replace the stator and, after they removed it, it was indeed fried. The bill was north of $800. Hope you have better luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RollinAgain Posted April 3, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted April 3, 2012 There is a very good chance this is electrical. Check the plug that connect the R/R to the wiring harness (behind the right rear fairing) and also check the plug that connects the stator to the wiring harness (behind right mid fairing) If either plug has signs of melting or burning you will need to repair or get a new wiring harness. While you have the panel off you can also go ahead and test the stator output assuming you have a voltmeter. If all electrical components are looking ok you need to determine if the carbs are getting fuel or not. You can test the fuel pump by connecting straight to the battery and you can also check the carb bowls to make sure they contain enough fuel. How does the inside of your tank look? Rollin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mk2davis Posted April 3, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted April 3, 2012 I'd suggest checking the battery voltage first thing. 12.6ish volts or more indicates a healthy charging system so issues are probably fuel related. 12.2 volts or less would indicate bad electronics/charging system. If it is a bad charging system, I'd proceed as described by Rollin. Please keep us in the loop. I hope its an easy fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrelman Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Begin by recharging the battery, then try again, being sure to check for sparks on plugs. Next, check the charging voltage after you get it running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer SamW Posted April 3, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted April 3, 2012 Also - I filled up with the bike level and me on it due to time .... I closed the cap with the bike level as well ... this might mess with the vent lines. Think so? This would not cause an issue. +1 Did the bike sound normal when you were trying to restart it (other than the obvious not starting)? My experience with the R&R is that it will run the battery down as you ride (this could cause other issues I have not had), so if yours was turing over well with the battery, it might lead me to think something else is the issue. I have had a fried connection at the Stater Solenoid, but that left me dead with no eletrical at all. Keep us posted on what you find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Also - I filled up with the bike level and me on it due to time .... I closed the cap with the bike level as well ... this might mess with the vent lines. Think so? This would not cause an issue. +1 Did the bike sound normal when you were trying to restart it (other than the obvious not starting)? My experience with the R&R is that it will run the battery down as you ride (this could cause other issues I have not had), so if yours was turing over well with the battery, it might lead me to think something else is the issue. I have had a fried connection at the Stater Solenoid, but that left me dead with no eletrical at all. Keep us posted on whay you find. She cranked pretty well so it seems that the electrical is OK. I am going out with my truck to either fix it or haul it home and I'll let you know what happens (or doesn't). Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Also - I filled up with the bike level and me on it due to time .... I closed the cap with the bike level as well ... this might mess with the vent lines. Think so? This would not cause an issue. How long ago has the RR been changed and how many miles have you ridden since you've changed it or done any other work. - Sorry for tyne out of order responses ... my notification settings were off. RR is about 12 months old and 4,000 miles. Only other work was a valve check done by a mechanic. Bike has worked well since then, with a total of 200 miles, so I don't think there is a pinch from putting the bike back together... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Hey Stillwater, Richfield here. My bike died on a trip to the North Shore last summer. The first indications were of a bad battery. I had it replaced in Duluth. Then, about 50 miles later, up around Silver Bay, it started to show symptoms similar to yours. (The 01 had about 80,000 miles on the original electrical system). Shortly after that is died (would not start). After having it towed back to Mpls. Honda Town diagnosed a failed R/R and a tosted stator. They could tell the R/R was bad but could not diagnose the stator. I gave the go-ahead to replace the stator and, after they removed it, it was indeed fried. The bill was north of $800. Hope you have better luck. Ugh- I hope so too. Stator might need a look.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 There is a very good chance this is electrical. Check the plug that connect the R/R to the wiring harness (behind the right rear fairing) and also check the plug that connects the stator to the wiring harness (behind right mid fairing) If either plug has signs of melting or burning you will need to repair or get a new wiring harness. While you have the panel off you can also go ahead and test the stator output assuming you have a voltmeter. If all electrical components are looking ok you need to determine if the carbs are getting fuel or not. You can test the fuel pump by connecting straight to the battery and you can also check the carb bowls to make sure they contain enough fuel. How does the inside of your tank look? Rollin I'll look into this ASAP - tank is spotless (benefit of having bought this old girl from a pilot). Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I'd suggest checking the battery voltage first thing. 12.6ish volts or more indicates a healthy charging system so issues are probably fuel related. 12.2 volts or less would indicate bad electronics/charging system. If it is a bad charging system, I'd proceed as described by Rollin. Please keep us in the loop. I hope its an easy fix. Right on - will report back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Begin by recharging the battery, then try again, being sure to check for sparks on plugs. Next, check the charging voltage after you get it running. I'll start simple with the fuel cap and then move to charging and right-side electrical inspections. Thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 OK - got to the bike and popped open the filler cap and closed it. Cranked the motor, a sputter... but the battery was weak from the previous cranking. A brief jump from my truck and it fired right up. Have repeated that two more times without a jump. So, could be the cap / vacuum, but it's not conclusive. Now, I'm going back out there to pull the back right plastic to check out the connections and stator... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Final Thoughts: Just put 45 miles on at various speeds (town, curved roads, 75 on the interstate) and it is running like a clock again. No gremlins, no issues (so far). Other than popping open the filler and closing it again, I: - checked all the plugs to the R/R and other components on the right side (harness) of the bike and they all look fine... still greased well, no melt/burn evidence - checked to see if the battery is holding charge and strong... it is - did not get into the stator for testing - did not go into the fuel delivery world I believe it was a vacuum issue at the time of filling, which seems odd. This would be a new experience for me to say the least. Barring another odd event, I will put a couple hundred more on her this week with commuting and after-hours riding and see if anything happens again. Thanks All - this may or may not be the last time we talk about this! Stillwater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer SamW Posted April 4, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted April 4, 2012 Good to hear! It does seem like too easy a solution, but sometimes those are it. Keep us posted and enjoy the ride! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smoothsailin Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I experienced a similar fuel starvation issue with my ST1100 a few years ago. Once in a while usually after I had been riding harder than normal for a while my ST would start losing power and gradually slow down until it stalled. Like you described, after I allowed it to sit for a few minutes and opened the gas cap it would start up and run fine as long as (I later realized) I had not been using a lot of throttle continuously for more than 30 seconds or so. Eventually I traced the problem to a detached rubber diaphram in the vacuum-operated fuel shutoff assembly between the gas tank and the carburetors. My ST would run fine at light throttle since some gas was still getting through, but under heavier loads like when climbing long grades it would occasionally show signs of fuel starvation. Twisting the throttle hard for several seconds would not trigger the issue since (I'm assuming) there was enough fuel in the float bowls to handle a relatively short demand for hp. So you might want to check the condition and operation of the fuel petcock assembly in your bike. Unfortunately a few years ago after heading out for a trip down the BRP to the Smokies with friends I ended up having to cancel the trip and return around for home after my ST began starving for fuel each time we had to climb a grade for more than a few minutes at a time. During the 2.5 hour ride from my home to the mountais it ran flawlessly, including when I had to wick it up while passing other vehicles. After leaving the mountains my ST again ran fine all the way home. When I had a chance to work on it first I replaced the fuel filter, but that failed to solve the problem. However when I by-passed the fuel petcock assembly voila -.the fuel starvation issue was cured.. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I experienced a similar fuel starvation issue with my ST1100 a few years ago. Once in a while usually after I had been riding harder than normal for a while my ST would start losing power and gradually slow down until it stalled. Like you described, after I allowed it to sit for a few minutes and opened the gas cap it would start up and run fine as long as (I later realized) I had not been using a lot of throttle continuously for more than 30 seconds or so. Eventually I traced the problem to a detached rubber diaphram in the vacuum-operated fuel shutoff assembly between the gas tank and the carburetors. My ST would run fine at light throttle since some gas was still getting through, but under heavier loads like when climbing long grades it would occasionally show signs of fuel starvation. Twisting the throttle hard for several seconds would not trigger the issue since (I'm assuming) there was enough fuel in the float bowls to handle a relatively short demand for hp. So you might want to check the condition and operation of the fuel petcock assembly in your bike. Unfortunately a few years ago after heading out for a trip down the BRP to the Smokies with friends I ended up having to cancel the trip and return around for home after my ST began starving for fuel each time we had to climb a grade for more than a few minutes at a time. During the 2.5 hour ride from my home to the mountais it ran flawlessly, including when I had to wick it up while passing other vehicles. After leaving the mountains my ST again ran fine all the way home. When I had a chance to work on it first I replaced the fuel filter, but that failed to solve the problem. However when I by-passed the fuel petcock assembly voila -.the fuel starvation issue was cured.. Hope this helps. This is good advice. I have put another 100 + miles on it and everything is still working well. I think it is a starvation issue vs. electrical, even though electrical is the first place to eliminate in most cases. I am going to take the old girl on a multiple-thousand mile trip this summer and I might be best off replacing the petcock assembly just for good measure... what say you? Thanks- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smoothsailin Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Rebuilding or replacing the petcock assembly could be a wise move before you set out for an extended trip...as could checking out your viffer's wiring and charging system components. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer SamW Posted April 5, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted April 5, 2012 It never hurts to do a little work on a 20+ year old motorcycle before a long trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V4 Rosso Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I am going to take the old girl on a multiple-thousand mile trip this summer and I might be best off replacing the petcock assembly just for good measure... what say you? One other option that may cause starvation is a bad fuel pump. The contact points wear and this can cause the pump to stop working, allowing hardly any fuel to reach the carbs (enough for the engine to iddle, but that's all). A temporary fix is to bypass the fuel pump, the engine will run as good on just gravity feed. This once happened to me the evening before a trip and I rode the whole week on gravity feed. You can check the contact points by removing the plastic cover on the fuel pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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