to all the frankenviffers, this one's mine, VFR750RR

[flyguyeddy]

if i had a front wheel for my forks i probably could.... but i can tell you for sure that all the linkages are forced over a little bit.

[kostritzer]

With the 36mm spacer I have at least 1mm of clearance on both sides of the dogbone

[flyguyeddy]

It isnt impeding the function of the parts at all just looks wrong. Everything moves freely.

[flyguyeddy]

For everyones reference, the chain run on the 929 is only 1mm further out than the 900rr. This is measured with both cush drives and chain side spacers placed on a mill table. Ill post pics in a little bit

[flyguyeddy]

Here it is

[flyguyeddy]

Thoughts anyone?

[YoshiHNS]

Thoughts anyone?

What are we looking at again? I see the spacer, but there's really nothing of reference.

[Guest]

I may do that just to double check everything when I'm done, but I think I've figured out a "close enough" way to align the wheels, assuming everything is relatively straight. I know that my rear wheel is pointing straight ahead, at least in reference to the swingarm pivot since the distance from the axle to the pivot is exactly the same on both sides(hopefully my swingarm is straight, but there's not a whole lot I can do about that at the moment).

So I used my string alignment method using the rear wheel as my "straight ahead" reference, the only extra step I needed to do was measure the distance of the edge of the front wheel on both the front and back sides and make sure they are equal distance to the string, any difference front to rear means the wheel is turned. Looks like my front wheel was turned slightly to the left, throwing off my measurements(likely due to my not perfectly flat particle board table).

Using this method I've determined that my 36mm spacer is pretty much spot on as far as aligning my bike. I'll have to verify it once its all put together on a professional alignment machine, but I don't think there will be any major changes required at that point.

Kostritzer, your alignment method is perfect for chain alignment - but I probably wouldn't use it for swingarm alignment. The problem is it assumes and relies on a perfectly aligned rear wheel (i.e. rear wheel axis perfectly perpendicular to bike centreline). How do you check this is the case? And how will an error affect your measurement?

You have a 6mm misalignment over a distance (your wheelbase) of around 1400-1500mm (give or take). If we use a little simple trigonometry, we can calculate that the angle for a 6mm misalignment over 1400mm is around 0.004 degrees ( =6/1400, if we remember our maths classes, Tangent of a small angle is equal to the small angle)

So this means a rear wheel which is 0.004 degrees off-straight ahead would be enough to get a 6mm measured misalignment. Now I don't know exactly the tolerance on rear swingarms but I'd be pretty happy to bet it's a bit more than that.

I think chain alignment is most important - as you've all been doing here, getting the front and rear sprockets aligned, putting a wheel next to it and fitting it all in the swingarm, you'll probably find this will have defined exactly where everything should go, and probably not have much room left over to worry about...

So my observations: Worry about getting the rear wheel aligned about the chain first. Then worry about getting the swingarm to clear the frame (looks like you've already done this) and finally sort the links. I'm a bit lucky on mine, with the lower linkage on the 5th gen frame, as the links are bolted to the engine (and I'll be cutting the crap out of them anyway to fit a CBR954 swingarm).

I think machining the dogbone down if you need to would be a good option and see no issue here. 2mm? That's almost nothing when you think what the percentage reduction of the width is; it should be fine.

If you think about it, within a couple of mm it doesn't really matter where the rear wheel sits - what does matter is pointing it in the rigth direction - so that the rear wheel centreline points exactly at the bike's steering axis - which is why chain adjusters were invented:) Your string technique is excellent for getting the front and rear wheel centre lines in the same plane.

[Guest]

Here it is

Could I ask a favour?

I'm trying to fit an O.Z. wheel I found off an R1 4XV (it was cheap:) onto the CBR954 swinger and a 5th Gen engine/frame. I'm wondering if there'd be any way to fit the Honda cush drives into the Yamaha wheel. Could you possibly post a pic of the inside of the Cush drive and maybe measure the outer and inner diameter of the cush drive dogs?

I'll try upload a pic of what I'm on about tomorrow...

[kostritzer]

Hey Btec

Getting the rear wheel aligned to the chassis is relative easy, although of course there is still a possibility for error due to bent parts. You just have to make sure the rear axle center to swing arm pivot center is equal on both sides. My rear wheel appears to be straight, I didn't measure it with a dial indicator, but it looks very true spinning on the rear axle. Assuming the swingarm is straight, and the frame is relatively straight, then the wheel will at least be square to the rear of the frame. Now at least you have a straight reference going forward to the front wheel, so you just need to center the front wheel to the rear using the string method. If you have an equal distance between the leading and trailing edges of the front wheel to the string on both sides, then you know that the front is pointed straight ahead. Now you just need to measure the difference between the string and edge of the wheel on both sides to figure out how much to the left or right you need to move the swingarm in the frame.

Ideally I'd like to use two long certified "straight edges" to do the job of the string, but they're ridiculously expensive!

Figuring out chain run after the wheel alignment is a piece of cake in comparison, and at the most would require machining one side of the counter shaft sprocket to get the proper alignment.

In reality I probably wouldn't even notice a difference between where my wheel is now or when it was offset 6mm. I'm pretty happy with the way the wheels are aligned now, though I'll double check everything once I get a set of tires mounted to the rims.

[Guest]

Actually measuring between swingarm and axle pivot is a good idea, nice one. So then you know axles are parallel.

I've been thinking about making up some alignment tools for my project, more for chain alignment - I wanted to adapt a laser and mirror to some vee blocks. I'm thinking vee blocks as they should be square and small enough to stick on sprockets and fit it around the swingarm.

Extruded aluminium could work well as a straight-edge. For toe alignment they made a tool from box-section ally that was pressed against the edge of the rim. You could try something like that - I'm sure it'd be cheaper than wheel alignment tooling. As far as certification, it's always going to be ridiculously expensive, but there are alternatives (laser comes to mind again!)

[kostritzer]

Extruded aluminum could work. I actually bought some aluminum angle from a local hardware store last year, but when I got it home it became obvious that it was most certainly not straight! I've been thinking about using some lasers as well, really what I need is free time to fiddle with the damn thing!

[george6x]

any more news on this thread and pics iam going to do this on my vfr maybe when it is finished it would be good to pin this.

[YoshiHNS]

If you're going to try and buy metal for a project and want it to be straight, don't buy it from Mcmaster or your local hardware store. Find a small qty metals shop. They may not be perfectly straight either, but they are going to be much much better. I ordered some stainless bars for a job from mcmaster and a local place. The Mcmaster bars came in and looked like a melted puddle of material with about 0.070" out on each face, whereas the local vendor (Metal Supermarkets) was only about 0.008" total.

[SEBSPEED]

Was the stuff from McMaster out of the spec'd tolerance? They usually list a tolerance and I've had good luck so far.

[YoshiHNS]

way out. But unless I ordered ground material or stuff like sheet metal and thick angle iron, I never had much luck from them.

[kostritzer]

Found a couple of tools recently that take nearly all the guesswork out of aligning the rear wheel to the chassis, as well as the rear wheel to the front.

First thing is this rear wheel alignment tool made by Quality machine co. http://qualitymachineco.com/productsales.html in Savannah GA. Very simple to use tool for checking rear axle to swingarm pivot alignment, cost $92 bucks shipped. You can also use it to check your wheel base if your front axle is hollow.

Second tool is this ultra precise level I bought from the Home Depot,http://www.homedepot.com/Empire/h_d1/N-25ecodZ5yc1vZ12l2Zif/R-100356505/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=level&storeId=10051its supposed to be accurate to .0005"! It was a bit pricy at $80 out the door, but a helluva lot cheaper than some $600 straight edge!

Far more confident that my wheels are aligned now. Much better than the "string" method I was using previously!

[kostritzer]

quick butt shot of how the bike is looking currently. Will start my own thread as soon as I start working on engine related stuff.

[mello dude]

Hey Kos - that's cool stuff -- thanks!

[Guest]

Hey Kostritzer - that's looking awesome!

I like your alignment solution, very elegant. I'm trying to get some laser pointers to do the chain alignment - which is proving way more difficult than it should be...

NO, I'M NOT PLANNING TO BRING DOWN COMMERCIAL AIRLINERS WITH A BLOODY LASER, I JUST WANT TO GET MY WHEEL STRAIGHT! WHY WON'T ANYONE BELEIVE ME?!?!

Anyway, I'll be getting my swingarm spacers back some time soon and will hopefullly have the gen-5 on its new wheels very soon.

Your pics are good inspiration to get crackin'...

[Guest]

been a long time, got back to work on my VFR750RR today, removed the headers to finish welding them, got some tires on the way too, going to finish this thing ASAP....

[Guest]

yesterday i spooned on new tires and alot of misc-type stuff like re-tightening bolts front to back, replacing the clutch line and rc51 clutch master, today i finished welding the headers together and put the chain on, it's going to be rideable real soon!

waiting for petcock, gas cap, dzus fasteners, muffler packing and still need to figure out a rearset solution, mainly for the brake side, thinking a set of basic woodcrafts meant for 900rr should be the doggies danglies.

[Guest]

we have a runner! this bike was totalled in 2007 and sat in a salvage yard til 2011, and then in my garage til now, i changed the oil, put on some flea-bay carbs, a new battery and it runs! albeit not well yet, won't hold idle, and seems to flood very easily....but it runs!!!

[V-FORE]

Good Job Bringing it Back!!

[NakedViffer]

Looking forward to seeing the header pictures once its finished.