Afraid to plug a tire?

[KevCarver]

What to do if you're a thousand miles from home and you pick up one of these:

Someone (Seb, or Jim, or Keith) said it looked, as the blunt end was sticking out from the surface of the tire, like a .25 caliber round. Well, good eye sir! It indeed was a 1/4" drive flathead screwdriver bit rammed nearly fully into my tire. Not sure how it happened, but it did. Never felt it while riding, so no idea how long it was in there.

First repair attempt was to use the Stop and Go kit:

It's got a fancy plug inserting tool to get the mushroom head inside and flat against the carcass of the tire.

Here's the plug:

Unfortunately we didn't notice before trying that it is only rated as a "Temporary" repair. Sort of like a car spare doughnut. 50mph and 100 miles max recommended. Even so, it was already in so I tired to air it up. It never did seal properly using the Slime brand portable compressor, so I rode it to the gas station at the end of the motel drive and tried that compressor. Still no luck sealing it, and I wound up accidentally pulling it out trying to get it flush on the interior.

I had my own kit in my top case, so I tried it out. Sold by Progressive suspension:

I bought this many years ago after some favorable reviews online. I think, at the time, that the BMW guys all were raving about it. Pic shows tube patches as well as tubeless plugs, but it is available with either or both.

It's a pretty straight-forward idea. Ream out the puncture, cement the plug after removing the plastic wrapping on the sealing surface, jam it in. I remember reading long ago when I bought it that the cement tends to harden even when sealed. Well, that seems to have happened to me. Despite the unbroken seal, the cement came out slightly too hard to properly work and I still had some air leaking.

Anyway, at this point at least I had enough seal to actually ride it back to the motel and the gang. Brian (MidlifeVFR) had already volunteered his 4th Gen rear wheel to get me home, and it was looking like it was going to be the way to get back. CornerCarver got out his plug kit and we figured it wouldn't hurt to try it before Brian took off for home to get the wheel.

He's got the basic old school "rope" plugs with reamer and insert tools. They all pretty much look like this:

Pretty simple to use. Just ream out the hole to rough it up so you have more surface for the cement to grab. Stick the plug into the tool, and goo it up with cement. Then jam in into the puncture. Trying not to shove it fully in, of course. I left about a 1/2" tail sticking out and filled it at the gas station compressor until the stick gauge read a little over 44 psi. Didn't know how accurate it was, and figured it would be fine.

By this time we were about 2 hours late on a day we were hoping to get 600 miles of highway done. So we decided to get going for an hour or so, then stop for lunch and check out the tire. Keith wasted no time in getting up to highway speed, and I was right there with him and MiniCarver. At the first stop I checked out the tire. Looked fine, kicked it and it was solid, finally got my digital gauge out and measured it at 49 psi. Proper heated inflation rate, given the starting cold pressure was 44-45.

Kicked it again at each subsequent stop with the same results.

Final stop of the day was cold ambient, raining, and by the time I measured we had been off the highway for 10-15 minutes. That reading was 46 psi. Didn't make out mileage goal, so still had 550 to go.

Next morning, in the same cold raining conditions, it read 43.5. I had some difficulty that morning, so probably let out half a pound screwing around with the gauge and stem.

Another day of highway to get home, and here's how it looked in my garage:

Final cold pressure reading the next day was 45. Slightly warmer in my garage, actually 20 or more degrees, so a bit higher pressure than the cold morning. Final bleed down to the proper 42, and I think it will be fine!

That tire had never touched asphalt before I left on the 2340 mile trip. Barely any highway before the run home, and you can see the squaring off after the 1000 mile ride! Pilot Powers on both ends. I'd love to get CornerCarver's tread depth measurement on his Road 3 rear, since it was nearly new before we left, to compare to my Power at just over 3mm on the center tread. (Hint-Hint since he doesn't reply to email...)

Anyway, that's my report on tire plugging. Tried to be as thorough as possible since the issue can be contentious. Yes, I left a bit of plug sticking out. I don't recall if it is recommended to cut or leave it, but I left it and never noticed a thing. Despite the long highway travel, it wasn't too far off the center. So it did get plenty of contact in right turns with no ill effects.

[Chuckster]

Nice writeup. I think it's recommended to cut the plug even with the tire to keep from something possibly catching on it while riding and pulling it out? My experience is I've only plugged one (same old school method you show at end of your thread) and it did fine until the weather turned cold and then it started losing about 1 lb. of air daily. Then I replaced the tire. However, i did the same plug routine on my F150 truck and it never lost a bit of air. Go figure.

Chuck

[spud786]

Ive used all forms of external repair, and the large worms, have the longest longevity on average , by more than DOUBLE!!!!

Stopand go is very nice, but still doesnt have the longevity of the Worm.

I had flat on the road, other day, went to do a worm, I didnt have my installtion tool so had to use the tire plugger, after riding that day, did an internal repair, with lead wire combo patch.

Oh dont ream the hole unless , you have to!

[CharlesW]

Nice write-up.

Interesting that the el-cheapo repair was the one that got you home.

Will you now;

Replace the tire?

Remove the tire and plug it from the inside?

Leave it as it is?

I've always been leery of repairing a tire on a motorcycle for extended use.

A rapid loss of air on a 4 wheeler is a nuisance, a rapid loss of air on a 2 wheeler seems like it would be a disaster.

[Monk]

I've used the mushroom and gun thing...SUCKS.

And have used the gummy string..... works great....I did cut the string very close to the tyre. Got 3000 miles out of it.

[Monk]

Nice write-up.

Interesting that the el-cheapo repair was the one that got you home.

Will you now;

Replace the tire?

Remove the tire and plug it from the inside?

Leave it as it is?

I've always been leery of repairing a tire on a motorcycle for extended use.

A rapid loss of air on a 4 wheeler is a nuisance, a rapid loss of air on a 2 wheeler seems like it would be a disaster.

Even if you blow the plug....... IMHO ......... It's not going to lose the air like blowing a valve stem ....... AND the side walls on these high tech tyres are stiff enough to support the bike a lot better that the old radials ..... or car tyres for that matter........Just my opinion...

[KevCarver]

Let's be honest, 1000 miles in two days on the highway at extra legal speeds is already a pretty good test. We're not talking about a couple hours of "get you home" riding. My opinion is that if it were going to do anything, it would have already.

I've used internal plugs before with no problems, but from a shop. I don't have any on hand, but I do have the tire removal gear if I wanted to do it and bought a plug. Not sure where to get one, either.

Deflation will be reasonably slow enough to make a stop, but you won't be going anywhere on a flat. Sorry Monk, these sidewalls are not that stiff. (EDIT)

Low pressure, yes. No pressure, no.

[Monk]

Let's be honest, 1000 miles in two days on the highway at extra legal speeds is already a pretty good test. We're not talking about a couple hours of "get you home" riding. My opinion is that if it were going to do anything, it would have already.

I've used internal plugs before with no problems, but from a shop. I don't have any on hand, but I do have the tire removal gear if I wanted to do it and bought a plug. Not sure where to get one, either.

Deflation will be reasonably slow enough to make a stop, but you won't be going anywhere on a flat. Sorry Monk, these sidewalls are that stiff.

That's what I said??????????? that the tyres ARE stiff... you most have miss read, no biggy. we're so use to peeps not agreeing, etc.

Matter of fact, One flat I had I was riding on a straight road and it felt like it may be losing air, and was close to home. when I got home and checked the pressure it was about 18 pounds.

[spud786]

Nice write-up.

Interesting that the el-cheapo repair was the one that got you home.

Will you now;

Replace the tire?

Remove the tire and plug it from the inside?

Leave it as it is?

I've always been leery of repairing a tire on a motorcycle for extended use.

A rapid loss of air on a 4 wheeler is a nuisance, a rapid loss of air on a 2 wheeler seems like it would be a disaster.

Even if you blow the plug....... IMHO ......... It's not going to lose the air like blowing a valve stem ....... AND the side walls on these high tech tyres are stiff enough to support the bike a lot better that the old radials ..... or car tyres for that matter........Just my opinion...

The plugs or worms will give out eventually if any road contact, usually they fail with me, 500 to 1200 mile, depending on the type of external repair. rain is bad for worm plugs, and the rubber is too soft with stop go types. Usually they'll start leaking verses blow out ,with either type.

The only time I've had them last the life of the tire , is if theres virtually no road contact , like in between a tread block, but dead center in the tire, normally takes on strong acceleration which reduces a plugs life considerably.

[Guest]

Just my .2

I got a nail about 500 miles ago and I just decided to use the worm type tire repair. I checked the pressure every day pre ride and it's holding just fine. I an running a Metzeler M-3 and I do pretty spirited riding . I carry a little slime air compressor and some worms in my saddle bag j. I'm sold! I'll always carry it just in-case!

Of Course the day I decide not to take my saddle bags it'lll be the day I get a flat! DOH!

Jim

[Monk]

As I posted earlier, I got 3000 miles out of my sticky worm and it was in the(near) centre of the tyre...... I had checked the pressure before each ride and it didn't start losing air until the 3000 mark at which time I replaced the tyre........ BUT .... I had plugged it on a new tyre, so it had a lot of good rubber to support the plug(just something to add to the stat's).

[spud786]

Yeah, thats a definitely possibility depending on how the bike is ridden , track riding tends to eat plugs at a faster rate.

Cruising on thoroghfare interstates or Highways , is about the easiest on a plug, but if doing alot of acceling and deceling and alot of throttle use, the tables will turn negatively towards Plug life. Road contact, road courseness, rain, and use all play a big factor.

But Ive destroyed so many plugs, I can safely say they arent reliable , other than a short period of time, atleast my experience.

[CharlesW]

If it isn't off-topic or a thread hi-jack;

What's the opinion on the plugs applied from the inside after the tire is dismounted.

I have always felt that those were better, but I can't see trusting them for long distances at high speeds on a motorcycle.

[Monk]

If you're going to take the tyre off I'd go with a internal patch..... A internal plug can pop with wear just as a external might....I think, I've never done it.

Or a plug and a patch, as long as the tyres off anyway.

[CharlesW]

If you're going to take the tyre off I'd go with a internal patch..... A internal plug can pop with wear just as a external might....I think, I've never done it.

Or a plug and a patch, as long as the tyres off anyway.

I've never done it, but I thought it was both a plug and a patch when they did it from the inside.

[spud786]

Motorcycle Tire manufactures, recognise proper internal tire patching as a way of repair, they do not recognise external repair.

But there is many different ways of technique and componentry with internal patching. Such as the lead wire combo patch , which will go through a tire at an angle if needed, also has special ingrediant compound that getts into the hole for self vulcanising , seals the tread plus the hole. Add in the prepping, Rubber cleaner, buffing, Blue flammable glue, woooom! and then cover it all with liner restorer, its a very decent patch job.

It can only go downhill from there with what componentry or method, someone else uses.>G

[spud786]

I've used the mushroom and gun thing...SUCKS.

And have used the gummy string..... works great....I did cut the string very close to the tyre. Got 3000 miles out of it.

I never got the Gun one, I have the allen screw type, and it inserts fine and easy.

[Monk]

I've used the mushroom and gun thing...SUCKS.

And have used the gummy string..... works great....I did cut the string very close to the tyre. Got 3000 miles out of it.

I never got the Gun one, I have the allen screw type, and it inserts fine and easy.

I've seen some that screw in, then break the end off.... they look good.... Do you have a link?

[CharlesW]

Motorcycle Tire manufactures, recognise proper internal tire patching as a way of repair, they do not recognise external repair.

But there is many different ways of technique and componentry with internal patching. Such as the lead wire combo patch , which will go through a tire at an angle if needed, also has special ingrediant compound that getts into the hole for self vulcanising , seals the tread plus the hole. Add in the prepping, Rubber cleaner, buffing, Blue flammable glue, woooom! and then cover it all with liner restorer, its a very decent patch job.

It can only go downhill from there with what componentry or method, someone else uses.>G

That's closer to what I was thinking of. Something similar to this.

[VFR4Lee]

Last time I had a flat it was the front. The valve stem developed a leak, and it went to zero pretty quickly.

Maybe in 1 minute give or take. Steering got real heavy but I was able to steer and pull over. Pumped it up with CO2 a couple times in hopes of getting home, but it kept going flat before long, was lucky to get to a gas station at the bottom of the hill in Sunland, and my friend went home for his truck.

I probably rode 1/2 a mile or a mile with it flat or near flat, thought it would be destroyed. But it was OK when it was taken off and a new valve stem installed. The mechanic said it was fine, and I rode it hundreds of more miles until it wore out.

As for the patching, whatever works to get you on your way. After, I'd do a better repair or replace it asap myself.

[SEBSPEED]

I'll be the first to admit that I've owned that Stop & Go kit for 5 years, and that was the first time I'd used it. I think it would have worked nicely if the hole hadn't been at such an angle to the tread. I think the mushroom style would work fine on a more perpendicular puncture. I could probably add a couple of the rope type to my kit without running out of space.

Internal patch is a really nice way to go, if the service is available. "witch hats" they call them around here.

[spud786]

Monk, the gun was an added acessory to the orginal stopand go tire plugger, the original just uses allen wrench set up to drive the plug in, nothing breaks off, as you were asking.

[spud786]

Motorcycle Tire manufactures, recognise proper internal tire patching as a way of repair, they do not recognise external repair.

But there is many different ways of technique and componentry with internal patching. Such as the lead wire combo patch , which will go through a tire at an angle if needed, also has special ingrediant compound that getts into the hole for self vulcanising , seals the tread plus the hole. Add in the prepping, Rubber cleaner, buffing, Blue flammable glue, woooom! and then cover it all with liner restorer, its a very decent patch job.

It can only go downhill from there with what componentry or method, someone else uses.>G

That's closer to what I was thinking of. Something similar to this.

Yeah those are lead wire combo patches , they come in various patch sizes and stem sizes, those pictured are the Gum dipped type. I have a different type, which are a Black stem, gum wrapped type.

[spud786]

I'll be the first to admit that I've owned that Stop & Go kit for 5 years, and that was the first time I'd used it. I think it would have worked nicely if the hole hadn't been at such an angle to the tread. I think the mushroom style would work fine on a more perpendicular puncture. I could probably add a couple of the rope type to my kit without running out of space. Internal patch is a really nice way to go, if the service is available. "witch hats" they call them around here.

Yeah they work fine till the start leaking, any steel strand will cut them in half, and road contact, messes them up too, so 200 to 500 miles, has been my experience, and Ive used a dosen of them. You can always push the old one in the tire and install a new one, same with worms.

[CornerCarver]

oh, yeah....i had this feeling there was something else I was supposed to do for you.

my rear PR3 tread depth, 4.2mm in the center and 4.4mm on the sides. that run home at 6-8k rpm did a number on the tire profile for all three of us. that tire has approximately 2,825 miles and even though it was never pushed on this ride due to the temps and the rain we ran through on the way home I am liking it. 2,469 miles on this trip and 358 one day about a week before we left

Back OT....sorry about quickly getting you up to freeway temps and speed as wel left Sunday. I would ride that plugged tire until it either started to consistently leak down in the garage (more pressure lost than the front over the same period) or until it was time to replace the tire. i wouldn't do a track day on it but we put it through it's paces on the way home.