Best track-only tire?

[whiteboyslo]

OK, I'm now officially hooked on track days (and yes, I know that means I need to look into a dedicated track bike so as to not have to use the VFR). I need help figuring out what to do about tires. For my first track day, I ran the PR2s that are on the bike. For the pace I was at, they held just fine but looked like hell by the end of the day. I think another track day would probably toast them, so rather than do that, I'm thinking of getting a set of dedicated track tires instead.

Given that I haven't ever pushed the PR2s hard enough to break free, I was thinking of going with PPs (not 2CT) to save a couple of bucks. Of course, I'm assuming the PPs are a softer compound than the outside of the PR2s, right?

Then again, given that these are track-only tires, maybe I should go for something with a bit more grip? I've heard good things about the BT-003s, the Power Pures, and the Q2s. Would any of these be worth the extra cost?

If it makes any difference, the bike is 100% stock suspension-wise. I weigh about 300lbs in my b-day suit. As you may have gathered, I'm not SUPER-fast, but I'm getting there. I'd like to see these last at least 3-4 track days. Is that a realistic goal?

TIA!

Mike

[kostritzer]

OK, I'm now officially hooked on track days (and yes, I know that means I need to look into a dedicated track bike so as to not have to use the VFR). I need help figuring out what to do about tires. For my first track day, I ran the PR2s that are on the bike. For the pace I was at, they held just fine but looked like hell by the end of the day. I think another track day would probably toast them, so rather than do that, I'm thinking of getting a set of dedicated track tires instead.

Given that I haven't ever pushed the PR2s hard enough to break free, I was thinking of going with PPs (not 2CT) to save a couple of bucks. Of course, I'm assuming the PPs are a softer compound than the outside of the PR2s, right?

Then again, given that these are track-only tires, maybe I should go for something with a bit more grip? I've heard good things about the BT-016s, the BT-003s, and the Q2s. Would any of these be worth the extra cost?

If it makes any difference, the bike is 100% stock suspension-wise. I weigh about 300lbs in my b-day suit. As you may have gathered, I'm not SUPER-fast, but I'm getting there. I'd like to see these last at least 3-4 track days. Is that a realistic goal?

TIA!

Mike

I've read a bunch of tire reviews lately, probably close to 20, and the only tire I've read about that hasn't had a single negative thing said about it is the Dunlop Q2. The only thing remotely negative I've read about them is that they're a little on the heavy side compared to some of the others, other than that pretty stellar reviews. That being said, I haven't tried them yet, but that's what I'm buying next.

I have the BT016's on my 400 now, and I'm not very excited about them. They seem to be lacking some feel, at least in the front end. I had some Power Pures on my CBR600RR and they felt fantastic on the one track day I did with them, but I sold the bike soon after so I couldn't really give a long term review. From what I've heard they seem to wear out pretty quickly.

[kostritzer]

OK, I'm now officially hooked on track days (and yes, I know that means I need to look into a dedicated track bike so as to not have to use the VFR). I need help figuring out what to do about tires. For my first track day, I ran the PR2s that are on the bike. For the pace I was at, they held just fine but looked like hell by the end of the day. I think another track day would probably toast them, so rather than do that, I'm thinking of getting a set of dedicated track tires instead.

Given that I haven't ever pushed the PR2s hard enough to break free, I was thinking of going with PPs (not 2CT) to save a couple of bucks. Of course, I'm assuming the PPs are a softer compound than the outside of the PR2s, right?

Then again, given that these are track-only tires, maybe I should go for something with a bit more grip? I've heard good things about the BT-016s, the BT-003s, and the Q2s. Would any of these be worth the extra cost?

If it makes any difference, the bike is 100% stock suspension-wise. I weigh about 300lbs in my b-day suit. As you may have gathered, I'm not SUPER-fast, but I'm getting there. I'd like to see these last at least 3-4 track days. Is that a realistic goal?

TIA!

Mike

I've read a bunch of tire reviews lately, probably close to 20, and the only tire I've read about that hasn't had a single negative thing said about it is the Dunlop Q2. The only thing remotely negative I've read about them is that they're a little on the heavy side compared to some of the others, other than that pretty stellar reviews. That being said, I haven't tried them yet, but that's what I'm buying next.

I have the BT016's on my 400 now, and I'm not very excited about them. They seem to be lacking some feel, at least in the front end. I had some Power Pures on my CBR600RR and they felt fantastic on the one track day I did with them, but I sold the bike soon after so I couldn't really give a long term review. From what I've heard they seem to wear out pretty quickly.

I should also mention that I haven't used any of these tires on a full sized VFR! Probably not that helpful!

[KevCarver]

Honestly, it's hard to beat a Pilot Power!

[kaldek]

I've read a bunch of tire reviews lately, probably close to 20, and the only tire I've read about that hasn't had a single negative thing said about it is the Dunlop Q2.

Absolutely. Dunlop Q2 (effectively a "cut slick") for the track, any day of the week. I run them on my CBR1000RR track bike and they're sticky alright. Since I'm nowhere near their limit, they're a perfect tyre for the days when you rock up at the track and it's damp in the morning (which is like ALL the time at Phillip Island).

[kostritzer]

I've read a bunch of tire reviews lately, probably close to 20, and the only tire I've read about that hasn't had a single negative thing said about it is the Dunlop Q2.

Absolutely. Dunlop Q2 (effectively a "cut slick") for the track, any day of the week. I run them on my CBR1000RR track bike and they're sticky alright. Since I'm nowhere near their limit, they're a perfect tyre for the days when you rock up at the track and it's damp in the morning (which is like ALL the time at Phillip Island).

I've also heard that they wear really well compared to other tires. Honestly, they sound almost too good to be true!

[VFR Capt.Bob]

Do yourself a favor and buy the pilot 2ct's or the Bridgestones BT003. They are close in price and you will really notice the difference on the track.. 2 track days out of a set of tires especially if you are a heavy rider. Man now you got me craving a track day. I NEED A STINKING TRACK DAY! what track are you going to?

[2thdr]

I use Pilot Powers, but I'm 160 lbs and on a much lighter CBR F2. They work great for me. What you need to be paying attention to is brake pads! Gives me the willies thinking about heading into turn one at 140mph and slowing that 900 lbs down...talk about a cruise missile!

[BusyLittleShop]

The only slick I would consider trying is the new Pirelli SuperBike

Pro Slicks which "combine race-worthy performance with outstanding

durability. Developed with input from seven factory teams, the Pros

were designed to be used without tire warmers and have been imbued

with damping qualities that are meant to work with bikes' showroom

suspension settings."

The tire I always dreamed about Pirelli dreamed it up... a slick

without those silly rain groves that acts like a street tire... this

could be it..

[PACIFICMAN]

I have used both the Pilot Power "1"s, Love them, and the Qualifier "1"s, Loved them slightly more. I have an essentially stock '02 VFR and I weigh roughly 220 lbs. I leave the tires on the bike between track days and get about a season per rear, using the leftover fronts with a PR1 in the off season. This has proved economical and works well all around. I am going to switch to a PR2 if and when the PR1 wears out. I ride about 9,000 miles a year all in. I ride approx. 40% canyon fun, 50% Freeway commute and 10% track days (about once every 3 weeks from Spring until Fall)

[Guest]

if you havent done so allready drop the forks though by 10mm.

polar

[whiteboyslo]

I use Pilot Powers, but I'm 160 lbs and on a much lighter CBR F2. They work great for me. What you need to be paying attention to is brake pads! Gives me the willies thinking about heading into turn one at 140mph and slowing that 900 lbs down...talk about a cruise missile!

Just replaced all around with EBC HH Pads. You're absolutely right about that fear, though, especially after how I found my original pads. Read here:

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/65835-lessons-learned-from-doing-the-brakes-today/page__p__771634__fromsearch__1#entry771634

Mike

[whiteboyslo]

Man now you got me craving a track day. I NEED A STINKING TRACK DAY! what track are you going to?

Chuckwalla on 5/27

Mike

[kostritzer]

Man now you got me craving a track day. I NEED A STINKING TRACK DAY! what track are you going to?

Chuckwalla on 5/27

Mike

I want to do Chuckwalla really bad, that track looks awesome! Heard nothing but good things about it, other than it being in the middle of nowhere!

[Guest]

I've done three days on a set of Q2s on my RC51 and am very happy with them. Grip is great, tire gives good feedback, and it's wearing well; I may get five days out of them. Picked them up from Competition Accessories, <$200 for the 180/55 set. I don't think there's a better value (performance/$$) in a sport tire right now.

If you've got the money, I think that Pirelli Slick is a great option. I've heard nothing but good things about it.

Dunlop Sportmax Q2 Motorcycle Tires - Z-Rated - Package Specials

[whiteboyslo]

Well, seeing how I could hardly find ANY bad reviews no matter where I looked, I went ahead an got the Q2s. The trackday is a week from today, so I didn't have time to order in the deal from www.compacc.com. But I did find a local shop that got me out the door for just under $320, so no complaints.

I've only ridden them the 13 miles home from the shop, but I can already tell these are gonna be fun! I've ridden for years, but I always purchase more 'sensible' tires like the PR2s or similar. This is actually the very first set of sticky rubber I've ever had, and it's night-and-day just driving down the street. I checked the softness of the tire after I got home, and I swear you could cut off a slice of the outer portion with a butter knife. This is gonna be fun!

I will say, though, that I've clearly become too much of a Michelin fanboy. The Q2s definitely have a much rounder profile than the PR2s I typically run. It's weird not to have that immediate dive in that I'm used to, but I'm sure I'll get used to it.

Mike

[kostritzer]

Well, seeing how I could hardly find ANY bad reviews no matter where I looked, I went ahead an got the Q2s. The trackday is a week from today, so I didn't have time to order in the deal from www.compacc.com. But I did find a local shop that got me out the door for just under $320, so no complaints.

I've only ridden them the 13 miles home from the shop, but I can already tell these are gonna be fun! I've ridden for years, but I always purchase more 'sensible' tires like the PR2s or similar. This is actually the very first set of sticky rubber I've ever had, and it's night-and-day just driving down the street. I checked the softness of the tire after I got home, and I swear you could cut off a slice of the outer portion with a butter knife. This is gonna be fun!

I will say, though, that I've clearly become too much of a Michelin fanboy. The Q2s definitely have a much rounder profile than the PR2s I typically run. It's weird not to have that immediate dive in that I'm used to, but I'm sure I'll get used to it.

Mike

Congratulations! Can't wait to hear a review from your track day!

[timmythecop]

Give the pilot pures a miss. They stick like glue until a couple of thousand miles, then get as slippy as wet owl snot.

[redrider99]

Well this isn't going to impact your choice this time around since you already picked up a set of Q2s, but I'll throw in my 2 cents anyway.

Race take-offs are fantastic for trackdays, in my opinion.

I started out running pilot powers and did fine on them, but at some point you're likely to be overwhelming them, even if you aren't good enough to use them at the edge of traction (controlled slides, etc.)

Street tires aren't designed for that level of heat or use and they'll get greasy. I would assume a big heavy VFR is only going to exacerbate this at an even slower pace. Whether you're right at the limit or not, there's less grip available compared to a DOT race tire, presuming the race tire is up to proper temp (which it most likely will be at a trackday).

The scary part of DOT race tires is they're super expensive and don't last very long. But if you can find a racer willing to sell you his cast-offs they're surprisingly affordable in my experience. Fronts were very easy to come by for me and I'd get 2-3 trackdays out of them on a 600, though I was not terribly good on the brakes. Rears I'd get 1-2 depending on the condition of the tire. As far as what they cost, it ran the gamut for me. Sane and fair prices were something like $20-30 for a good front and $50-70 for a good rear. However, better deals can be found... my best score ever was $35 for a set that looked like they had one sprint on them. IIRC that rear lasted 2 1/2 trackdays.

At the club level lots of guys run 'em close to the cords for practice and whatnot, but the faster guys running for contingency money typically get rid of them sooner and don't care quite as much what they get for 'em. The one fast guy around here that I got to know a little bit had a Michelin sponsorship which was a set number of tires per season, plus I think there was contingency money for placing in the top 3. He got nearly free tires so he always had a fresh set and his take-offs were ripe for the pickin'

I found the best place to buy take-offs is at the racetrack at the end of a weekend when guys don't want to haul them back and just want to unload what they can. I also found good deals at trackdays. Racing-specific forums that have a presence in your area would be a good place to look too.

Welcome to the addiction. My VFR and our first daughter was the end of my trackday participation but I REALLY hope I can get back into it someday because neither had any noticeable effect on the addiction itself!

Also, when you look into that track specific bike look for a cheap already prepped lightweight class bike. They're easier on tires, cheaper to run, and cheaper to fix. They also allow you to learn the craft a lot better than a high horsepower bike. I wish I had gone this route, but when you already own a sportbike it's real hard to justify buying something else (as you know).

Have fun.

(Sorry for the novel... I miss trackdays and it felt good to write about 'em.)

[Terminex]

I put my review of the Q2's for the track in the reviews section a couple weeks ago, and coincidentally, just updated the review this morning. check it out and you can see my thoughts.

FYI - Last year I ran Bridgestone Race (BT003 PRO & the Race slicks) rubber exclusively on the track, and Michelin PP 2CT on the street.

Never ran them, but I think another good option that is comparable to the Q2 is going to the be the Bridgestone BT003RS.

[whiteboyslo]

So now for the review.

Wow, wow, wow, are these tires awesome! OK, keep in mind I've never run what you would call a 'sticky' tire (mostly BT-021s, PR2s, etc), but now I know what I've been missing. These tires are just phenomenal. The turn in is very gradual and predictable, they stick all the way to the edge, and the grip is unreal. I was braking WAY later than I normally would feel comfortable and tossing it in as hard and as deep (hehe) as I wanted to. I could put myself anywhere on the track I wanted to and not think about traction. Never once felt a squirm or anything I would describe as greasy.

As to wear, I have to say the tires look good. I did 5.5 sessions at Chuckwalla Valley, and they look just fine. Granted, Chuckwalla is a ridiculously smooth track not known for being overly harsh on tires, but still. I hope to get a good 3-4 more track days out of them, and it looks like I should be able to if I take care of them.

Honestly, I'm so hooked on these things I hate to go back to the PR2s. I think the next time I'm due for daily tires, I'm going to these. Yeah, they may wear out faster, but I don't commute as much and these are just too much fun.

Mike

[whiteboyslo]

As a quick aside, Chuckwalla Valley Raceway is UNREAL! For any who have the chance to go and are on the fence, I wholeheartedly recommend it. There are zero amenities and it can be hotter than hell, but the track itself is phenomenal. For a VFR, it's a '3rd gear and leave it' track with non-stop corners of all kinds, including their own version of Laguna Seca's 'Corkscrew' and the 'Ring's 'Carousel'. I had an absolute blast and can't wait to go back, although I think I'll wait until fall when the temps come back down. I couldn't imagine being there mid-August or September.

My avatar pic is me going around their 'Carousel' corner they call 'The Bowl'.

Mike

[johnmark101]

The Q2's really are a fantastic sport tire. Best ever in my humble opinion. Superb grip and very confidence inspiring. Good enough for track days unless you are running A group pace. Then you might want to consider a DOT race tire.

[SereniTTy]

Give the pilot pures a miss. They stick like glue until a couple of thousand miles, then get as slippy as wet owl snot.

I'm curious as to what kind of testing you did to determine this. Where did you even get wet owl snot to compare to?