Upgrading the brakes on a Gen4?

[Traveller]

Here we go again... Before you bash me for yet another topic on brakes upgrade let me just say that I did a search and couldn't find anything on the questions that I have in mind.

With this out of the way, here's the deal. I would like to do something drastic to improve the braking abilities of my Gen4 VFR. Simple as that.

Now, I have considered many options, and the best would be to swap the whole front end for something better, but I lack the technical knowledge for such a job and I have already bought a great set of Wilbers springs for the VFR's front end. Also I lack the funds so doing it as cheap as possible would be ideal! :blush:

I am considering the option of getting a set of better calipers and then fabricate some mounts.

- How safe would this setup be? As you can understand I am a bit nervous to mess about with such an important safety aspect of the bike.

- How easy/hard would it be to design/fabricate said mounts?

- What would the specs need to be? (material etc)

Apart from the above, I do have another option and I would like your opinions. I have 2 complete front forks from a '01 Kawasaki 636m which are NOT usd.

How possible would it be to swap the tubes from my VFR's forks and mate them to the Kawa's sliders?

I took the idea from here http://www.therevcounter.com/mechanics/59520-overhaulin-cheap-vfr750-3.html and I must admit I like it very much. Doing so would allow me to use the 6 pot calipers that the Kawa was using, which I presume would solve all my braking problems.

Are there any problems/issues I would need to be aware of? Would the 636 wheel spindle need modifications to fit the VFR wheel?

I am a bit lost at the moment, so any pointers/suggestions/help would be of immense value! :blush:

Cheers!

[JZH]

This...

Now, I have considered many options, and the best would be to swap the whole front end for something better, but I lack the technical knowledge for such a job and I have already bought a great set of Wilbers springs for the VFR's front end. Also I lack the funds so doing it as cheap as possible would be ideal! :blush:

...does not fit with this:

Are there any problems/issues I would need to be aware of? Would the 636 wheel spindle need modifications to fit the VFR wheel?

Doing anything with the 636 forks would be a big job.

I've seen some adapter plates, done by "Druid" on the UK-based HondaVFRClub site, but I don't know anything else about them. It should work, but again, you can't just buy the adapter plates, you'd have to design them and have them made... Good luck!

Ciao,

[Jmmymc750]

I could do stoppies on my 90VFR...what's wrong with your brakes? Here's a really cheap fix suggestion.

Pull the calipers and clean them thoroughly. Clean the pistons, maybe get the rebuild kits with new piston seals for about 12 bucks a caliper. Then, make sure you do this part: take the slide pins out and sand the grunge off of them. There will be some grunge. But use a small piece of 1200 grit or better, and sand the S*@t! out of them til smooth. Polished smooth. Then use a little dab of anti-seize compound (not grease!!!) on them, spread it out! very thin film. Make sure you get some inside the little rubber boots, so it gets on those bushings. Install new pads, EBC HH. If feeling a little spendier, apply new stainless brake lines (about $100).

If you are not on the track regularly, the aforementioned fixes will definitely improve the feel to a level worthy of your bike. They may not be six-pot, brickwall calipers, but they can work very well, when properly maintained. If you do what I just recommended, you will be completely shocked by the feel of the brakes. Promise.

Cheers!

[Guest]

Before you want to spend all of that money try some mods to the stock brakes.

Try EBC HH pads and replace the brake fluid front/rear, give a good once over on the calipers and clean off the pistons.

Take a look at your brake lines as well to see if they are starting to dry rot.

After doing what I suggested I can probably endo my bike if I really wanted to it grabs that hard.

[mrmatt]

I think this is very good advice, try cleaning up what you have and add stainless lines to see if that's what you're looking for. Other than that I would think mixing in parts from a 636 would be more difficult than grafting on a complete front end, because you'll run into stuff that won't match up like axle length, axle diameter, brake rotor diameter, centerline spacing for rotors and wheel, etc. A complete front end would make sure that the brakes will line up with the wheel and you just have to think about where it attaches to the bike.

If you want to try some brake swapping then you might want to look at some VTR1000 parts, since they are Honda it's more likely that the parts will be interchangeable

Good luck

[steve27bha]

....If you want to try some brake swapping then you might want to look at some VTR1000 parts, since they are Honda it's more likely that the parts will be interchangeable...

They are not. VTR brakes and sliders can be fitted to VFR fork tubes - there are reports of this on VFRD - but not VTR calipers alone to VFR sliders.

I agree completely with the comments about cleaning the pistons and particularly the slider pins of the standard set-up. That plus new well-bled fluid should stand the bike on its nose - you don't even need steel lines. OK it takes a good grip, but it can be done.

[Traveller]

Many thanks for all the tips guys! I was expecting the 636 forks to be a major PITA but as I have them laying around anyway I entertained the thought of putting them to some use. Anyway with that option out of the way here's were we stand.

The problem I have with the VFR's brakes is not so much the braking power -as a good handful will DEFINITELY stop the bike on its nose; It is the feel of the system.

I will admit I am very spoiled as my other bike is a Ducati 999s with the best braking system south of a monoblock Brembo, so maybe it is not a very fair comparison.

However I have ridden a '09 VTEC and was quite impressed by its braking feel, so this is what I'm aiming for.

All your advices about cleaning/rebuilding the calipers are excellent but here's my logic (feel free to correct me): why go about repairing the existing 2pot setup when I can get some 4pots very cheaply off fleabay and work on these?

Surely the 4pots will be even better than the original, right? It's not that they are so expensive these days.

With that in mind, I have more or less decided to go down the route of VTR 4pot calipers & mounting adapters.

So far I found a great deal on a 14mm master cylinder off a Honda ST1100 (I read that 4pots need bigger master cylinders to work correctly) and picked it up and I am still looking about for the VTR pots.

Only reservation I have is about the safety of the adapter plate. Has anyone tried that? Assuming I have the designs (I have written to Druid for help on that) what specs should the steel be?

[Traveller]

I could do stoppies on my 90VFR...what's wrong with your brakes? Here's a really cheap fix suggestion.

Pull the calipers and clean them thoroughly. Clean the pistons, maybe get the rebuild kits with new piston seals for about 12 bucks a caliper. Then, make sure you do this part: take the slide pins out and sand the grunge off of them. There will be some grunge. But use a small piece of 1200 grit or better, and sand the S*@t! out of them til smooth. Polished smooth. Then use a little dab of anti-seize compound (not grease!!!) on them, spread it out! very thin film. Make sure you get some inside the little rubber boots, so it gets on those bushings. Install new pads, EBC HH. If feeling a little spendier, apply new stainless brake lines (about $100).

If you are not on the track regularly, the aforementioned fixes will definitely improve the feel to a level worthy of your bike. They may not be six-pot, brickwall calipers, but they can work very well, when properly maintained. If you do what I just recommended, you will be completely shocked by the feel of the brakes. Promise.

Cheers!

Hey mate, great advice on the cleaning procedure! However as I have never dealt with repairing calipers I got completely lost when I read the procedure... :blush:

I suppose I should remove all fluid from the brake lines before I remove the calipers right? And how about the pistons? If I remove the calipers then how do I get the pistons out of there for cleaning? (I am guessing I need to take out the pistons yes?)

And how about the seals? I pry them out? What does a slide pin look like? Ooohhhh I am useless in this! :wacko:

Is there a idiot-proof guide on caliper cleaning with lots of pictures and big letters please?? :blush:

[JZH]

Hey mate, great advice on the cleaning procedure! However as I have never dealt with repairing calipers I got completely lost when I read the procedure... :blush:

I suppose I should remove all fluid from the brake lines before I remove the calipers right? And how about the pistons? If I remove the calipers then how do I get the pistons out of there for cleaning? (I am guessing I need to take out the pistons yes?)

And how about the seals? I pry them out? What does a slide pin look like? Ooohhhh I am useless in this! :wacko:

Is there a idiot-proof guide on caliper cleaning with lots of pictures and big letters please?? :blush:

Oh, dear... :blink:

Nick, you really need to get a workshop manual for your bike (e.g., Haynes) before you attempt anything. Put down the hammer and back away from the motorcycle, sir!

There is a particular way to remove brake caliper pistons, which is detailed in the repair manual. I'll give you a hint: you use the hydraulic pressure of the brake fluid to (gently) push the pistons out. If you drain the fluid first, you will just have to re-fill it! Using air pressure works, too, but unless you want to get tiny droplets of paint-eating brake fluid all over your other bikes (don't ask...) I would suggest you use the other method.

New calipers should be matched to a new master cylinder (usually), and a good rule of thumb is to use the same relative sizes as Honda used. So, yes, VTR calipers match a 14mm master cylinder, but other 4-pot NISSIN calipers (i.e., those from later 'Blades, 600RRs and the SP-1/SP-2) use larger master cylinders.

FYI, I've attached Druid's photos below. Those are not VTR calipers (which are gold), but are off an early Fireblade, I think.

Druid\'s RC36 Nissin 4-pot caliper&bracket4.jpg

Druid\'s RC36 Nissin 4-pot caliper&bracket3.jpg

Druid\'s RC36 Nissin 4-pot caliper&bracket2.jpg

Druid\'s RC36 Nissin 4-pot caliper&bracket1.jpg

Ciao,

[mello dude]

Dude -VTR1000 lower fork tubes can be easily grafted onto your stock forks. If your do that, you have a lot more caliper options. I did it on my 5th gen and used RC51 calipers. Anyway the calipers that will fit --- Stock VTR, F4i and RC51 (with minor grinding) and '01 -'02 GSXR1000 six pot calipers. All bolt on and no adaptors required. Check my gallery for a 5th gen example.

good luck

[Cogswell]

Unless you suspect that you have a sticking caliper you would be going to a helluva lotta trouble / expense to disassemble or replace you calipers. Maybe it just needs service. Start with the easy stuff. Change the brake fluid. This will get moisture and crud out of the system. That often helps underperforming calipers. Then inspect the pads - they could be glazed. New EBC or similar pads and maybe from the auto parts store a kit or pad to give the rotor faces a non-directional finish (some use Scotch Brite pads for that - I think green) could well restore your brakes. All this would cost you $10 to $20. Unless you're itching for a project, properly functioning 4th gen brakes should get it done.

[Traveller]

There is a particular way to remove brake caliper pistons, which is detailed in the repair manual. I'll give you a hint: you use the hydraulic pressure of the brake fluid to (gently) push the pistons out. If you drain the fluid first, you will just have to re-fill it! Using air pressure works, too, but unless you want to get tiny droplets of paint-eating brake fluid all over your other bikes (don't ask...) I would suggest you use the other method.

I guess I will leave the servicing to the experts then methinks! :happy:

If I get involved it will only end in tears! :comp13:

Dude -VTR1000 lower fork tubes can be easily grafted onto your stock forks. If your do that, you have a lot more caliper options. I did it on my 5th gen and used RC51 calipers. Anyway the calipers that will fit --- Stock VTR, F4i and RC51 (with minor grinding) and '01 -'02 GSXR1000 six pot calipers. All bolt on and no adaptors required. Check my gallery for a 5th gen example.

good luck

I have already looked around for VTR fork tubes but they are quite expensive, running over 160 euro each! I know this would be the best (and possibly the easiest) solution but it is also very expensive. How much could a CNC shop need for the adapters?

Unless you suspect that you have a sticking caliper you would be going to a helluva lotta trouble / expense to disassemble or replace you calipers. Maybe it just needs service. Start with the easy stuff. Change the brake fluid. This will get moisture and crud out of the system. That often helps underperforming calipers. Then inspect the pads - they could be glazed. New EBC or similar pads and maybe from the auto parts store a kit or pad to give the rotor faces a non-directional finish (some use Scotch Brite pads for that - I think green) could well restore your brakes. All this would cost you $10 to $20. Unless you're itching for a project, properly functioning 4th gen brakes should get it done.

I have already changed brake fluids twice and put in brand new OEM pads, thinking that this would be the solution to the spongy lever and long travel. Although it did marginally improve the situation I wouldn't say no to something even better... Ergo the 4pot calipers and the rest... :blush:

[Traveller]

While we are on the subject, could the VTR SP1 calipers fit on those adapters?

http://cgi.ebay.fr/HONDA-VTR-1000-SP1-SC45-BREMSSATTEL-VORN-BRAKE-CALIPER-/150530352210?pt=Motorrad_Kraftradteile&hash=item230c4ee452#ht_3330wt_1109

(I think that the SP1 had a USD front, so my guess would be no but still better to ask...)

[SAFE-T]

While we are on the subject, could the VTR SP1 calipers fit on those adapters?

http://cgi.ebay.fr/HONDA-VTR-1000-SP1-SC45-BREMSSATTEL-VORN-BRAKE-CALIPER-/150530352210?pt=Motorrad_Kraftradteile&hash=item230c4ee452#ht_3330wt_1109

If the adapters will work for CBR900RR, CBR929/954, CBR600F4/F4i, or VTR1000F calipers, it will also work for RC51 calipers. And probably CBR600R non-radial calipers. And GSXR1000 and Hayabusa calipers, although the Suzuki guys tended to swap out their (Tokico) six-piston calipers for Honda's (Nissin) four-piston calipers.

[Traveller]

I took the original design by Druid to my brother and we spent a few hours in an incredible modeling software with great results!

The original design was not fully defined and that posed a big problem in putting it on the computer.

However we defined everything and improved on the original design quite a bit with more customization coming as we progress. :fing02:

The great thing about this now is that we can pretty much customize the design to fit any caliper we prefer! :cool: (Enter the SP1 calipers please!)

An even greater ability is that this program can perform stress tests on the model and can give us an indication of whether the design will handle the forces being applied to it! :beer:

The following is a simulation of 4000 Nm of force being applied on the mounting points.

Needless to say that the final design will be made available to anyone who might be interested in such a modification. :)

So my question now is this: what master cylinder does the VTR SP1 use? Is the 14mm master that I got of a ST1100 going to cut it or not? I would like to keep the stock look of the fluid reservoirs...

[FinnRC36]

I took the original design by Druid to my brother and we spent a few hours in an incredible modeling software with great results!

The original design was not fully defined and that posed a big problem in putting it on the computer.

However we defined everything and improved on the original design quite a bit with more customization coming as we progress. :fing02:

The great thing about this now is that we can pretty much customize the design to fit any caliper we prefer! :cool: (Enter the SP1 calipers please!)

An even greater ability is that this program can perform stress tests on the model and can give us an indication of whether the design will handle the forces being applied to it! :beer:

The following is a simulation of 4000 Nm of force being applied on the mounting points.

Needless to say that the final design will be made available to anyone who might be interested in such a modification. :)

So my question now is this: what master cylinder does the VTR SP1 use? Is the 14mm master that I got of a ST1100 going to cut it or not? I would like to keep the stock look of the fluid reservoirs...

Nice looking adapters. And as far as I know the RC51 calipers mounting points are the same as the VTR1000 has so there shouldn't be any need to reposition the holes on the adapters. Solidworks does make it easy though.

On the master cylinders, the 14mm master won't do with the RC51 calipers as those calipers are the equal in size to CBR900RR 98-03, CBR600RR 03-04 and CBR600F4i and those use 15,8mm (CBR900RR 98-99), 17,5mm (F4i or CBR600RR 03-04) or 19mm (CBR900RR 00-03 or RC51) master cylinders and the calipers have larger pistons than the ST1100 and VTR1000F. For stock look use the F4i or CBR600RR 03-04 master. There are some contradictions about the master cylinder size of CBR600RR 03-04 (17,5mm or 19mm) in the sources I found. (Source for master cylinder and caliper piston sizes: http://motorcycleproducts.co.uk/catalogue/honda-parts-c-2064.html)

I am using the calipers and master from an 99 CBR900RR in my 3rd gen along with VTR1000F forks do think the feel of the brakes is superb. I have tested the S1000RR and 04 and 07 R1 and in comparison my brakes don't lose much to those in feel or power. I did add steel braided lines, disassemled and cleaned the calipers and polished the master cylinder piston and bore in the process.

[Traveller]

Hmmmm! I wish I had come across that website you mentioned earlier mate.

I had a deadline on a mint pair of VTR calipers and I had to make up my mind fast.

As I had already bought a 14mm master cylinder from an 2001 ST1100 already it made sense to purchase the VTR calipers, as these would work fine with the 14mm m/c from the ST.

Had I known about all the m/c sizes beforehand I would probably go for an m/c from a CBR 600 RR4 and calipers from a RC51, but even like so I think that the brake performance will improve a good deal. :fing02:

Having said that, would you be so kind to give me some pointers as to how to clean and polish the caliper pistons and bore?

[Traveller]

By the way, what is the relation between m/c piston diameter and length?

I see that the VFR750 has OD = 12.6mm x Length = 48.4mm

but the VTEC which has far better brakes has OD = 12.7mm x Length = 35mm

Shouldn't it be the other way around? I thought that given equal piston sizes then the longer the (stroke?) length the better? (for some reason this last sentence sounds quite naughty! :laughing6-hehe: )

By comparison the CBR 600 RR4 has OD = 17.50mm x Length = 46.00mm and the ST1100 has OD = 14.00mm x Length = 41.60mm

Anyone care to shed some light to this matter?

[Jmmymc750]

The piston diameter and stroke length are part of an equation that balances theoretical limit of force required to achieve the desired braking effect with the volume of fluid in the system, surface area of caliper pistons, and amount of force required at the lever. The sixth gen that you rode has a much more complicated system than the 3rd or 4th gen (and possibly 5th, depending on whether the model you rode had ABS).

You have a brother that can render in solidworks, and you obviously have the ability to do a great volume of research. I would think that someone with your abilities should be able to take apart a mechanism like a 2-piston-slide-pin-brake caliper, and get it back together without too much hassle.

If you changed fluid in your bike's lines and still have spongy lever, that is another clue. You need to bleed better. If you have the money, time, and inclination to do the swaps you inquire about, the technical ability required, time required, and money required are all greater than that required to do the cleanups that myself and others have mentioned. Hope you get what you are after!

Cheers!

[Traveller]

The piston diameter and stroke length are part of an equation that balances theoretical limit of force required to achieve the desired braking effect with the volume of fluid in the system, surface area of caliper pistons, and amount of force required at the lever. The sixth gen that you rode has a much more complicated system than the 3rd or 4th gen (and possibly 5th, depending on whether the model you rode had ABS).

You have a brother that can render in solidworks, and you obviously have the ability to do a great volume of research. I would think that someone with your abilities should be able to take apart a mechanism like a 2-piston-slide-pin-brake caliper, and get it back together without too much hassle.

If you changed fluid in your bike's lines and still have spongy lever, that is another clue. You need to bleed better. If you have the money, time, and inclination to do the swaps you inquire about, the technical ability required, time required, and money required are all greater than that required to do the cleanups that myself and others have mentioned. Hope you get what you are after!

Cheers!

All very good point mate and I appreciate your response! I must say that apart from anything else I do like the look of the bigger 4pot calipers, and as I have found the parts cheaply I figure why not give it a go? ;) Besides, as I have long since decided that I will keep my VFR for good I want to "take care of her" if you know what I mean. I already the fully adjustable Wilbers waiting to be fitted so the calipers will complete the package!

Plus I get to keep my stock calipers for future use in case I need them. :fing02:

[JZH]

By the way, what is the relation between m/c piston diameter and length?

I see that the VFR750 has OD = 12.6mm x Length = 48.4mm

but the VTEC which has far better brakes has OD = 12.7mm x Length = 35mm

Shouldn't it be the other way around? I thought that given equal piston sizes then the longer the (stroke?) length the better? (for some reason this last sentence sounds quite naughty! :laughing6-hehe: )

By comparison the CBR 600 RR4 has OD = 17.50mm x Length = 46.00mm and the ST1100 has OD = 14.00mm x Length = 41.60mm

Anyone care to shed some light to this matter?

There's an easy answer to this: The length of the pistons has f-all to do with it! :idea3:

In practical terms, hydraulics deals with areas, not volumes, so all you are concerned with are the diameters of the various pistons. The brake fluid isn't really flowing anywhere, you're just using it to transfer the pressure applied in one place (the brake lever) to another place where it is more useful (the caliper pistons, acting on the brake pads, which in turn act against the brake discs). So don't think of the fluid moving at all (it does, a little, but that's not really important). And if the movement isn't important, the volume won't be, either.

Piston diameters are all listed in the General Information" section in the front of the Honda workshop manual for each model (.pdf will usually suffice), and they can also be found in other manuals and in other places, but (as noted above) some of those sources disagree...

When I first swapped VTR forks onto my RC36 I used a master cylinder from (I think) a VTR, because I knew they would match the calipers. Whilst I initially liked the remote reservoir, I found that it got in the way of the clocks, so I later swapped it for another NISSIN master cylinder with an integral reservoir. I think it came from an ST1100, like yours. It's easy to find OEM integral reservoir m/cs in 1/2" and 14mm, but the only one I know of that is bigger is off a CBR600F4

(Btw, that's nice work on the drawing.) :fing02:

I should point out (before you start machining things) that I have no idea if Druid placed the calipers in the ideal position, relative to the discs. Since you've got access to a nifty computer drawing program you should make sure the dimensions he gave you are not only accurate, but correct. I would measure the distance from the centre of the axle to the brakedisc OD and also to the ID of the swept surface. Also from the axle to the VFR fork caliper mounting points. With those measurements (and the brake disc OD, which should be 296mm) you can model the whole front end and make sure that the new calipers (especially if you want to use Fireblade ones that were designed for larger discs) will not only fit, but be correctly positioned.

(If you wanted to get all "3D", you could also check that the bracket's offset will result in the discs being properly centred between the brake pads...)

Ciao,

[Traveller]

I should point out (before you start machining things) that I have no idea if Druid placed the calipers in the ideal position, relative to the discs. Since you've got access to a nifty computer drawing program you should make sure the dimensions he gave you are not only accurate, but correct. I would measure the distance from the centre of the axle to the brakedisc OD and also to the ID of the swept surface. Also from the axle to the VFR fork caliper mounting points. With those measurements (and the brake disc OD, which should be 296mm) you can model the whole front end and make sure that the new calipers (especially if you want to use Fireblade ones that were designed for larger discs) will not only fit, but be correctly positioned.

(If you wanted to get all "3D", you could also check that the bracket's offset will result in the discs being properly centred between the brake pads...)

Ciao,

I was working under the assumption that Druid's placement is correct. When you say "correctly positioned" you mean that the calipers should line up correctly along the brake disk surface?

[JZH]

I should point out (before you start machining things) that I have no idea if Druid placed the calipers in the ideal position, relative to the discs. Since you've got access to a nifty computer drawing program you should make sure the dimensions he gave you are not only accurate, but correct. I would measure the distance from the centre of the axle to the brakedisc OD and also to the ID of the swept surface. Also from the axle to the VFR fork caliper mounting points. With those measurements (and the brake disc OD, which should be 296mm) you can model the whole front end and make sure that the new calipers (especially if you want to use Fireblade ones that were designed for larger discs) will not only fit, but be correctly positioned.

(If you wanted to get all "3D", you could also check that the bracket's offset will result in the discs being properly centred between the brake pads...)

Ciao,

I was working under the assumption that Druid's placement is correct. When you say "correctly positioned" you mean that the calipers should line up correctly along the brake disk surface?

I don't know if they are spot-on or not, but I think it is always a good idea to measure yourself. :fing02:

Ciao,

[landlover]

Am reading all of this and wondering is there that much of an improvement in brakes in ten to fifteen years for a motorcycle, if you wanted ABS then yeah go for it. New fluid, rebuild pistons and such, NEW PADS, maybe stainless steel brake lines and new tires or what I think are the most important, new fluid, new pads and if tires are old, new tires. Don't know for sure but the lines on that bike are old and they may flex more than they did when new, under heavy braking but sure seems to me you should go for the simplest things first and then go from there, if it's just cosmetics, see if you can paint the caliper. Good Luck.

[douglasthecook]

Am reading all of this and wondering is there that much of an improvement in brakes in ten to fifteen years for a motorcycle, if you wanted ABS then yeah go for it. New fluid, rebuild pistons and such, NEW PADS, maybe stainless steel brake lines and new tires or what I think are the most important, new fluid, new pads and if tires are old, new tires. Don't know for sure but the lines on that bike are old and they may flex more than they did when new, under heavy braking but sure seems to me you should go for the simplest things first and then go from there, if it's just cosmetics, see if you can paint the caliper. Good Luck.

Radially mounted brake calipers will have less flex than the stock/direct fork mounted brake calipers on the VFR. Mono block calipers are also more rigid and stronger than the stock brakes on the VFR. These are innovations that have come along within the past 10 years or so. Kevlar lines are also an improvement over stock, as are stainless steel braided lines. I upgraded my brakes because I take my VFR to the track, and need strong brakes. I also upgraded to newer technology, as it's cheaper and easier to find parts for. Soon finding OEM parts for the 3rd, and 4th Gen VFR's will be rather difficult and spendy.

[Traveller]

Am reading all of this and wondering is there that much of an improvement in brakes in ten to fifteen years for a motorcycle, if you wanted ABS then yeah go for it. New fluid, rebuild pistons and such, NEW PADS, maybe stainless steel brake lines and new tires or what I think are the most important, new fluid, new pads and if tires are old, new tires. Don't know for sure but the lines on that bike are old and they may flex more than they did when new, under heavy braking but sure seems to me you should go for the simplest things first and then go from there, if it's just cosmetics, see if you can paint the caliper. Good Luck.

Radially mounted brake calipers will have less flex than the stock/direct fork mounted brake calipers on the VFR. Mono block calipers are also more rigid and stronger than the stock brakes on the VFR. These are innovations that have come along within the past 10 years or so. Kevlar lines are also an improvement over stock, as are stainless steel braided lines. I upgraded my brakes because I take my VFR to the track, and need strong brakes. I also upgraded to newer technology, as it's cheaper and easier to find parts for. Soon finding OEM parts for the 3rd, and 4th Gen VFR's will be rather difficult and spendy.

Damon, I'm with Douglas on this one. I must admit that the bike has adequate braking power, but is sorely lacking in feel. And while I was initially going for the tried-and-true braided lines solution I came across Druid's thread and I just had to go for it. It is one of those things, you know?

Besides, I have done the ss line thing a few times in the past and just didn't have that big an effect to justify the hassle. As my VFR is staying for the long run I just wanted to go all out for her and as Douglas puts it "upgrade to new technology".

So maybe it will improve braking power and/or feel; I don't know. But what I do know is that I am making my bike just that much more unique and improve the looks while I'm at it! ;) (btw, oem gold on calipers did just fine thanks!)

For now though I still need to find a damn machinist who is willing to take up the project; so far I had zero replies! :computer-noworky: