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Dutchgixxer

How to remove power limitations 1st and 2nd gear

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CandyRed always has good input.

ROLL ON VFRD !!!!

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I been following this tread on and off for quite a while, and, it's been almost five years, seems like it just started, do any body here really have the skill needed to ride this bike? I'm not a professional rider, but, have enough experience to learn a new bike, if you learn how to keep it in the right gear at the right rpm soon you forget about Don Ghul. And by the way, I only use manual mode, and ride hard.

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i bought a V4 because of the mid range power that it produces......i don't want to drive through downtown at 7000rpm in first gear.....the reflash made the VFR feel like a 1200cc V4....fyi...i'm 55 years old, have been riding since i was 9 years old

i ride in the NYC area, and found the power lag in first and second gear down right dangerous

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I been following this tread on and off for quite a while, and, it's been almost five years, seems like it just started, do any body here really have the skill needed to ride this bike? I'm not a professional rider, but, have enough experience to learn a new bike, if you learn how to keep it in the right gear at the right rpm soon you forget about Don Ghul. And by the way, I only use manual mode, and ride hard.

Because a rider like hondavfr1200dct, going to the track twice a year, to become a better rider, should focus his attention switching gears at the non-opportune time on the track, while piloting a heavy sport touring orientated motorcycle, as a work around to some stupid factory limitation equals skill in your book? Most any other bike doesn't have this limitation. The bike should change to the way he rides, like most any other sport natured bike around, not the other way around. An interrupt in the rpm band isn't something that is ideal and why many of us have removed it. It certain scenarios where you need throttle on the road it could be a dangerous limitation also.

It takes "skill" to figure out what he did, that the bike has some nanny state neutering in place, a limitation. And to add insult to injury, to your insult of other owners, his "skill" was being worked on, in a controlled environment, and the safest place to actually do it. It takes "skill" to realize limitations and to identify things that shouldn't exist as a hindrance.

Before questioning others skill level, maybe stick to your own.

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Hondavfr1200dct, You have nothing to worry about with warranty problems from Honda with a Guhl ECU re-flash. The only way anyone at a US Honda dealership is going to know anything was done to the ECU is if they see the sticker Don Guhl puts on the ECU or you tell them it was modified. Take the sticker off if the bike is still in warranty. No US dealer has the tools or ability to look at the ECU software code inside you're ECU. The only information the dealer can get off the ECU is alarm codes which pertain to failures of external sensors connected to the ECU. As far as I know all the DCT owners who have had the Guhl re-flash have been very pleased with the results. The list you asked for would start with

1. the Guhl re-flash. When the re-flash is done you have a choice of options from Guhl (eliminate the software based power limitations in all gears, eliminate the 155 mph top speed limiter, raise the rev limiter to a higher RPM, install a new fuel map for either the stock muffler or a selection of other aftermarket slip on mufflers, lower the coolant temperature the radiator fans comes on at, eliminate the software alarm code if you plan on changing the pipe and removing the secondary muffler flapper actuator). The Guhl re-flash price is the same whether you choose one or all of the options. In regard to the fuel map if you are going to leave the exhaust stock then request a map for the stock exhaust. If you choose later to change the pipe to an aftermarket one you can send the ECU back to Guhl and he will re-flash you're ECU for the new exhaust. There is no charge for software updates except for the shipping charges. Communication by phone directly with Don Guhl about the available ECU options and what you have done to the bike or plan on doing is the best way to get a good result. Call Don do not e-mail him. He does not respond to e-mails in my experience.

2. replace the stock muffler. You can find pictures and owner feedback on most of the available choices on this site. You will gain about 5 HP from the pipe change and more if the ECU has been re-flashed by Guhl or you install a fuel controller like a DJ Power Commander with a optimized fuel map.

3. Replace the stock air filter with a K&N or modify your stock filter by removing the metal sneeze screen from the filter which restricts airflow.

4. Remove the cat converter from the stock exhaust and replace it with a 2 into 1 collector. This is the most labor intensive option mentioned here but it is effective at increasing HP, especially if you have replaced the restrictive stock muffler.

Done properly the above 4 suggestions will give you around 165 HP and 95 ft.pounds of TQ at the rear wheel.

Edited by dynajohn
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Dear Fellow Enthusiasts; I ran my 2010 DCT at Road Atlanta this past weekend, and up to that point had never really thought about the bog out of 2nd gear.

I discovered the second gear bogging very soon after buying the bike this year. I've heard some say they haven't experienced it, but I certainly did.

So I got the Guhl flash at the end of July, and I can tell you that it completely cured that problem. The engine's natural torque is restored, and the bike will now drive out of 2nd gear even at very low rpm with no complaints. The power in the lower gears is significantly increased yet still linear and controllable.

In addition to the standard ECU programming,

I requested a fuel map for a DAM Exhaust and Cat Converter Removed;

Error code for stock exhaust servo motor removed;

Fan temperature reduced (which has worked out well)

I did not raise the rev limiter, as I saw that as a risk with very little or no benefit.

Being a perfectionist I also upgraded the rear and front suspension to dial in the proper settings (Ohlins rear; Traxxion AK-20 front).

I'm now really happy with my VFR1200. It's a great bike.

Edited by alleyoop
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shit, that sounds like a really fun bike now!

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Is the power restriction limited to the 2010 model? Would the 2012 have the same restriction?

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Hi All;

I have a power commander 5, and Delkevic exhaust.  There are 2 toggle switches  by my left thumb. One of them causes the gear position sensor to read 3

in 1st through 3rd gear.  When it reads 3, there's a gigantic power improvement in 1st and 2nd gear.  The other switch cancels the top end restriction.  I've 

accelerated past 163mph and it was still climbing.  (I didn't care to go any faster).  The bike is a 2010 purchased used with these improvements included.

It was my understanding that the remapping of the computer limits was done through the power commander.  Am I Correct with that?

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Hmm, my 2013 with 9.5 K on the clock is close to being run in, and, largely stock apart from a Givi and Heli bars.  So a couple of times I've noticed on giving it a fist full after just taking off, (no clutch slip) the front wheel accidently comes up a bit and the traction control light comes on, I will get around to turning TC off to see how it behaves... Hoops are stock Bridgies... not a fan, but loving the bike :-)

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Just talked to Mr. Guhl, I didn't have him lower the fan temp and he seems to not understand why.  I'm wondering why this helps when it's such a well heat managed bike, doesn't it tax the alternator if you do a lot of commuting?

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On 5/10/2016 at 10:48 PM, Scheibs said:

Hi All;

I have a power commander 5, and Delkevic exhaust.  There are 2 toggle switches  by my left thumb. One of them causes the gear position sensor to read 3

in 1st through 3rd gear.  When it reads 3, there's a gigantic power improvement in 1st and 2nd gear.  The other switch cancels the top end restriction.  I've 

accelerated past 163mph and it was still climbing.  (I didn't care to go any faster).  The bike is a 2010 purchased used with these improvements included.

It was my understanding that the remapping of the computer limits was done through the power commander.  Am I Correct with that?

 

No, the Power commander only does fuel mapping. It will not remove restrictions. Sounds like the previous owner hacked up the Gear Position Sensor.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, CandyRedRC46 said:

Modern motorcycles do not have alternators, they have stator and Regulator/rectifiers. The stator is always putting out 100% and the RR simply shorts what ever current is left over to ground. Having a fan running while stuck in traffic will not effect the stator and it will actually help the RR as the RR will have less current to convert into heat, provided that you aren't sitting at idle, with the high beams, brake light, hazzards and fan running for an hour, you will be fine. It is always a good idea to to install a voltmeter, to keep an eye on things. As far as the factory heat management, its not going to do anything at low speeds, thats the fans job, the only problem is the fans factory setting is around 225F which is way too hot. Around 190F is more optimal.

 

The VFR1200 has an "alternator"...stator is a part of alternator.

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48 minutes ago, CandyRedRC46 said:

 No, it has a regulator rectifier and a stator.

No,it has alternator. Stator is a part of alternator. Alternator does not require rectifier to work, either regulator. It has to have some "load".

 

Electrical engineer tip:

Stator is a part of many electrical machines/devices.

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No,once again. An electrical engineer tip. I'm not getting confused - I'm perfectly fine.

 

VFR1200 has an alternator. Stator is a part of alternator. Stator is a part of many electrical devices like some motors, generators(alternator is one of them) etc.

 

Alternator is a type of generator: AC type generator. Typical alternator is build from: stator, flywheel(with magnets) and winding. 

 

R/R is not a part of alternator, it''s a part of charging system in vehicle. Some alternators have build-in R/R's.

 

You are mixing terms and theories - said electrical engineer.

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I know what I have in my motorcycle...(VFR1200)which you don't have.

 

You posted: Modern motorcycles do not have alternators, they have stator and Regulator/rectifiers

Not sure what do you have there but I have "alternator" in MY VFR1200...oh wait, I know what do you have in your VFR800 - alternator as well.

 

End of conversation for me.

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1 hour ago, veeefour said:

I know what I have in my motorcycle...(VFR1200)which you don't have.

 

You posted: Modern motorcycles do not have alternators, they have stator and Regulator/rectifiers

Not sure what do you have there but I have "alternator" in MY VFR1200...oh wait, I know what do you have in your VFR800 - alternator as well.

 

End of conversation for me.

Simple solution to this , please provide photo proof of said "alternator " that is different from what Candy posted , please......

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For god's sake I should have just said "charging system"

 

Changing the subject...

Does disabling the exhaust servo smooth out the power at all?

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9 hours ago, CandyRedRC46 said:

 

No, the Power commander only does fuel mapping. It will not remove restrictions. Sounds like the previous owner hacked up the Gear Position Sensor.

 

 

Modern motorcycles do not have alternators, they have stator and Regulator/rectifiers. The stator is always putting out 100% and the RR simply shorts what ever current is left over to ground. Having a fan running while stuck in traffic will not effect the stator and it will actually help the RR as the RR will have less current to convert into heat, provided that you aren't sitting at idle, with the high beams, brake light, hazzards and fan running for an hour, you will be fine. It is always a good idea to to install a voltmeter, to keep an eye on things. As far as the factory heat management, its not going to do anything at low speeds, thats the fans job, the only problem is the fans factory setting is around 225F which is way too hot. Around 190F is more optimal.

 

What makes people think the factory fan setting is too high?  Honda have a long history of making reliable engines of this type so I am inclined to think they had a good reason(s) for choosing that temp.

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The last time. You posted Modern motorcycles do not have alternators, they have stator and Regulator/rectifiers

I said this is not true - I'm not discussing anything else here. Not only modern motorcycles but almost all motorcycles

have alternators. If they are split in design(stator and rotor are mounted separately) it does not mean they aren't ALTERNATORS.

Please do not cause confusion...

 

I'm ELECTRICAL ENGINEER and I studied those things for years - I don't know how may times I need to repeat that? Motorcycles have

alternators. Stator is a part of an alternator - this is how it was from ten's of years. 

I will not be discussing this anymore - I don't care some claims themselves a PRO's - my Professors are rolling over in their graves reading this.

 

Below the page from OEM manual, made by ENGINEERS:

 

alternator.jpg

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9 hours ago, swimmer said:

What makes people think the factory fan setting is too high?  Honda have a long history of making reliable engines of this type so I am inclined to think they had a good reason(s) for choosing that temp.

 

Its is pretty widely accepted that the optimal engine operating temperature for safely making maximum power is around 185-195.

The cooler that you make the the engine (to a certain point), the more aggressive you can tune the fuel and ignition maps, with out worrying about causing detonation.

 

A 225F engine will suffer preignition with less timing advance on the same octane fuel, than an engine operating at 190F.

The more timing advance that you can safely run (to a certain degree), the more power you can make.

 

There are down falls to lowering the engine operating temperatures though (which I am sure honda took into consideration).

An engine operating at a higher temperature will allow the fuel to vaporize and combust more readily (which is also why it detonates more easily too)

If the fuel burns more easily, you have cleaner emissions and better MPG, with a more mild tuning.

Also the oil temperature should be over 220F to ensure that all condensation is burnt off.

 

So basically engine temperature is a compromise.

A 225F engine will need a more conservative tune and make less power, but it will be cleaner, more efficient and have longer oil life.

A 190F engine CAN be tuned more aggressively, to make more power, but it will have dirtier emissions and need more frequent oil changes.

 

 

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1 hour ago, CandyRedRC46 said:

Okay, so you are agreeing that the VFR1200 has a separate regulator/rectifier and stator, but you are just getting upset over nomenclature? For a while it sounded as though you were trying to say that the VFR1200 had an automotive style alternator where all the components are housed all in one single unit.

 

It would be a lot easier to understand what you were trying to say if you didn't get so upset and start throwing insults around, people would probably take you more seriously too, as instead of coming off as a "Pro Engineer" you come off as a five year old throwing a tantrum. But I do appreciate the lesson on the various components of an alternator. Thank you.

I wonder how much more you can twist this theory on your favor? Now you are saying that I can't explain myself or nobody can understand

what I was trying to say. Nomenclature? Sounded? Upset? Insults? Now this sounds like a class C horror movie scenario...stop it, instead just admit

that simply: you were wrong you are trying to create those cheap stories...trying to come away completely unscathed from this, eh?

Not working at all...

 

You mixed everything again:
I said it has split design stator/rotor. Not separate reg.rec/stator....are we speaking a different language? Or you will be trying to denigrate me further? 

 

Now twist it again...it just started to be funny....just a little bit. Common, I would like to hear the part 2. I like cheap movies.

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3 minutes ago, CandyRedRC46 said:

You keep saying you are done, but yet you keep going. lol

Just like you, I wont quit...

 

Maybe we can try something else. What you say? How about class c move script?

Candy: VFR1200 has no alternator

Veefour: Yes, it has.

Candy: Really?

Veefour: Yes, just build diffrently

Candy: Oh yes, you are correct. I didn't know. Thanks buddy

Veeefour: No probs mate

 

Maybe it works this way for you? Yes, no?

 

 

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The thing is I changed my mind - because I can, and because "going all the day long" alone might be to much for you LOL.

 

Yes it's really funny like you are creating those theories. Some say "things" about you, that even if you are completely wrong

you will be twisting everything until others will give up - because admitting to be wrong was never "programmed" into your

vocabulary. I can see they were 100% correct about you. This is really not that much far from being a "troll" - not naming you here...

 

The thing is you claimed yourself as a PRO - which I dare to say is waaay too much said. However if you do say so stay on on

professional level and name things correctly. I'm not any "nazi" but you are just not telling the right thing - telling what's right

and what's not is the main reason we post on forums, right?

 

So shall we start over again?

Candy: I will never accept my faith as I person who ever said anything wrong. Arrrr arr!

Nazi veeefour: You know, I can goo all day long just like you.

 

 

 

 

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I'm relaxed, trust me.

 

You know: "Nazi" was a joke referring to the term "grammar nazi" as you accused me of being a "guardian of definitions". Relax.

 

Now, how about your meds Jonathan -  maybe take "half "next time, should help ;)

 

Oh, now you are after my language again....just like the last time. Some say that this is the far end of a proper argumentation.

Well, you are there - not me.

 

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