Wouldn't It Be Safer If The Brake Lights Came On During Hard Engine Braking?

[spud786]

What if I used a vacuum switch set real high, like 22+ inches, to make the brake light come on when you're under heavy engine braking? How about maybe just lighting 1 of the 2 bulbs? Would there be any thing wrong with doing this?

What is the purpose, if your using enough engine braking to were your going to get run over without brakes , I think you got to readress some issue.

[coderighter]

What if I used a vacuum switch set real high, like 22+ inches, to make the brake light come on when you're under heavy engine braking? How about maybe just lighting 1 of the 2 bulbs? Would there be any thing wrong with doing this?

What is the purpose, if your using enough engine braking to were your going to get run over without brakes , I think you got to readress some issue.

The issue I'm trying to address is the seemly endless parade of dumb ass drivers that only react to a reduction in following distance with a bright-light-wake-up. I've noticed if I slow down with out a brake light, people will let the following distance close right up, at least until they see a brake light. My goal is more to get them to maintain a safe following distance.

I my book, the only thing worse than going down, is getting run over. Ending up under a car, never goes well.

[spud786]

Not knowing the particular scenario

Generally if I have somebody that is wanting to run faster than me and on my decel and they close the gap alot to where they are on the A$$, then they are indeed running faster than me, I'd probably move over and wave them on through.

If your turning off of high speed roads and needing to slow and turn off, I typically use a hearding speed techinque with some handle signals, well before turn off, that includes some brake flashing. A gradual slowing process

In stop and go trafiic I allow more distance to the front if someone is pressing their space cushion.

I'm not sure of the value of a decel tail light, and vfr tail light isnt that brite. So to your question, not something I would do, but I'm willing to watch the process.

[Trace]

The issue I'm trying to address is the seemly endless parade of dumb ass drivers that only react to a reduction in following distance with a bright-light-wake-up. I've noticed if I slow down with out a brake light, people will let the following distance close right up, at least until they see a brake light. My goal is more to get them to maintain a safe following distance.

Look...you're never going to get the entire driving public to give you some magical, mythical following distance where you feel comfortable with your vacuum tail light. I don't seem to have this problem with slowing down and drivers tailling me, cuz I go fast until it's time to slow down or stop. But if you want to put this wacky thing on your bike, go ahead and do it. You'll be the only bike in the universe with a vacu-brakelight, and you'll be happy.

If you were taught downshift like MotoGP to slow for traffic stoppages, well, maybe your instructor was wrong. But yeah, we all downshift as we slow, to have the ooomph to go when the time comes. We do the same thing in cars all the time. Everyone downshifts...including modern cars with auto transmissions. But it's not to slow down, for the most part. It's to be ready to GO. Or you could increase rear tire wear with this method of slowing down, if you want. It's your tires. Do it.

The legality comment was about multi-colored lights, which I think was poking fun at your entire "slowing down light" concept. Brake lights are legal, regardless of how you apply them. After all, some dimwits ride the brake in their Escalades all the time, and they never get tickets...so it must be legal, right?

As for the rest of us, it appears that we don't think it's a useful invention. But what IS a useful invention is Hyper-lites or any of the other bright, flasher systems that are available for minimal cost. Those DO get driver's attention with a touch of your brakes, which is what you're supposed to be using anyway. If those devices don't get someone's attention, then you're doomed anyway. Life is like that. Maybe you shouldn't be doing these long, gradual slow-downs that get drivers on your ass, wondering why you don't keep up with the flow of traffic. Just go quickly and then brake when you need to. And drivers are going to get on your ass, regardless of what you do, Hyper-lites or not. They don't care that you're on a bike. That's the way it is.

Or install your vacu-light. I think the subject has been beaten to death at this point. You've argued against every point that anyone has made against this silly idea, so just go ahead and do it. Set the vacuum at 5 inches so the light will come on when you get off the throttle in 6th gear at 50 mph. :huh:

Be safe out there......or get a car.

[coderighter]

The issue I'm trying to address is the seemly endless parade of dumb ass drivers that only react to a reduction in following distance with a bright-light-wake-up. I've noticed if I slow down with out a brake light, people will let the following distance close right up, at least until they see a brake light. My goal is more to get them to maintain a safe following distance.

Look...you're never going to get the entire driving public to give you some magical, mythical following distance where you feel comfortable with your vacuum tail light. I don't seem to have this problem with slowing down and drivers tailling me, cuz I go fast until it's time to slow down or stop. But if you want to put this wacky thing on your bike, go ahead and do it. You'll be the only bike in the universe with a vacu-brakelight, and you'll be happy.

If you were taught downshift like MotoGP to slow for traffic stoppages, well, maybe your instructor was wrong. But yeah, we all downshift as we slow, to have the ooomph to go when the time comes. We do the same thing in cars all the time. Everyone downshifts...including modern cars with auto transmissions. But it's not to slow down, for the most part. It's to be ready to GO. Or you could increase rear tire wear with this method of slowing down, if you want. It's your tires. Do it.

The legality comment was about multi-colored lights, which I think was poking fun at your entire "slowing down light" concept. Brake lights are legal, regardless of how you apply them. After all, some dimwits ride the brake in their Escalades all the time, and they never get tickets...so it must be legal, right?

As for the rest of us, it appears that we don't think it's a useful invention. But what IS a useful invention is Hyper-lites or any of the other bright, flasher systems that are available for minimal cost. Those DO get driver's attention with a touch of your brakes, which is what you're supposed to be using anyway. If those devices don't get someone's attention, then you're doomed anyway. Life is like that. Maybe you shouldn't be doing these long, gradual slow-downs that get drivers on your ass, wondering why you don't keep up with the flow of traffic. Just go quickly and then brake when you need to. And drivers are going to get on your ass, regardless of what you do, Hyper-lites or not. They don't care that you're on a bike. That's the way it is.

Or install your vacu-light. I think the subject has been beaten to death at this point. You've argued against every point that anyone has made against this silly idea, so just go ahead and do it. Set the vacuum at 5 inches so the light will come on when you get off the throttle in 6th gear at 50 mph. :huh:

Be safe out there......or get a car.

Wow,.... feel better. It was just an idea. There were a couple members that were intrigued, obsessively you were not, and that's OK. Based on the feedback I got (which I did ask for), I'm probably not going to try this, but who knows, I might get bored someday and give it a try. I figured I could make it happen for around $20 and wanted to see if anyone thought it had any safety value.

I'm sorry if anyone thought I was arguing against their point. That wasn't my intent. I just thought the "D" in VFRD was for discussion.

I know how to make this switch install happen. If you'd like the info, PM me and I'll share it with you. Other then that, I guess we can consider this topic beat to death and closed. I don't want to upset anybody else with this silly idea.

[rodm850g]

Guys,

Not trying to be negative here but when I was riding my old TL1000...Iknow the light would be on a lot

might not be the best of ideas...a good thought though

Rod

The issue I'm trying to address is the seemly endless parade of dumb ass drivers that only react to a reduction in following distance with a bright-light-wake-up. I've noticed if I slow down with out a brake light, people will let the following distance close right up, at least until they see a brake light. My goal is more to get them to maintain a safe following distance.

Look...you're never going to get the entire driving public to give you some magical, mythical following distance where you feel comfortable with your vacuum tail light. I don't seem to have this problem with slowing down and drivers tailling me, cuz I go fast until it's time to slow down or stop. But if you want to put this wacky thing on your bike, go ahead and do it. You'll be the only bike in the universe with a vacu-brakelight, and you'll be happy.

If you were taught downshift like MotoGP to slow for traffic stoppages, well, maybe your instructor was wrong. But yeah, we all downshift as we slow, to have the ooomph to go when the time comes. We do the same thing in cars all the time. Everyone downshifts...including modern cars with auto transmissions. But it's not to slow down, for the most part. It's to be ready to GO. Or you could increase rear tire wear with this method of slowing down, if you want. It's your tires. Do it.

The legality comment was about multi-colored lights, which I think was poking fun at your entire "slowing down light" concept. Brake lights are legal, regardless of how you apply them. After all, some dimwits ride the brake in their Escalades all the time, and they never get tickets...so it must be legal, right?

As for the rest of us, it appears that we don't think it's a useful invention. But what IS a useful invention is Hyper-lites or any of the other bright, flasher systems that are available for minimal cost. Those DO get driver's attention with a touch of your brakes, which is what you're supposed to be using anyway. If those devices don't get someone's attention, then you're doomed anyway. Life is like that. Maybe you shouldn't be doing these long, gradual slow-downs that get drivers on your ass, wondering why you don't keep up with the flow of traffic. Just go quickly and then brake when you need to. And drivers are going to get on your ass, regardless of what you do, Hyper-lites or not. They don't care that you're on a bike. That's the way it is.

Or install your vacu-light. I think the subject has been beaten to death at this point. You've argued against every point that anyone has made against this silly idea, so just go ahead and do it. Set the vacuum at 5 inches so the light will come on when you get off the throttle in 6th gear at 50 mph. :huh:

Be safe out there......or get a car.

Wow,.... feel better. It was just an idea. There were a couple members that were intrigued, obsessively you were not, and that's OK. Based on the feedback I got (which I did ask for), I'm probably not going to try this, but who knows, I might get bored someday and give it a try. I figured I could make it happen for around $20 and wanted to see if anyone thought it had any safety value.

I'm sorry if anyone thought I was arguing against their point. That wasn't my intent. I just thought the "D" in VFRD was for discussion.

I know how to make this switch install happen. If you'd like the info, PM me and I'll share it with you. Other then that, I guess we can consider this topic beat to death and closed. I don't want to upset anybody else with this silly idea.

[rbertalotto]

I guess we will all find out if a third brake light upon deceleration is a good idea or not.

There is a rider in the Health Care Bill that will spend a few million dollars researching the value of a third yellow light on the rear of motorcycles that would turn on upon deceleration.

I understand a lot of buses and taxis in NYC are testing this system, and it is being widespread tested in certain European countries.

[coderighter]

I guess we will all find out if a third brake light upon deceleration is a good idea or not.

There is a rider in the Health Care Bill that will spend a few million dollars researching the value of a third yellow light on the rear of motorcycles that would turn on upon deceleration.

I understand a lot of buses and taxis in NYC are testing this system, and it is being widespread tested in certain European countries.

Huh, interesting. Perhaps not such a silly idea after all.

[TimC]

I guess we will all find out if a third brake light upon deceleration is a good idea or not.

There is a rider in the Health Care Bill that will spend a few million dollars researching the value of a third yellow light on the rear of motorcycles that would turn on upon deceleration.

I understand a lot of buses and taxis in NYC are testing this system, and it is being widespread tested in certain European countries.

Huh, interesting. Perhaps not such a silly idea after all.

I don't know. Just because Congress is considering it doesn't mean it's a good idea. :fing02:

Just kidding! (I know, no politics. 'Twas just a non-partisan joke!) I'd like to see this concept in action sometime.

[Ryanme17]

Well I don't think it's a bad idea. My only concern is that I like to be able to flash my brakes in that situation.

[Guest jderou]

I guess we will all find out if a third brake light upon deceleration is a good idea or not.

There is a rider in the Health Care Bill that will spend a few million dollars researching the value of a third yellow light on the rear of motorcycles that would turn on upon deceleration.

I understand a lot of buses and taxis in NYC are testing this system, and it is being widespread tested in certain European countries.

Is it really that big of a problem? Are people actually running into the back of busses cause they didn't see brake lights :fing02:

Maybe at night?

[rbertalotto]

Is it really that big of a problem? Are people actually running into the back of busses cause they didn't see brake lights blink.gif

Maybe at night?

Yes..........

[Knife]

Most cage drivers behind me keep their distance, even more distance than when they are behind another cage (maybe they think I'll go all ape-shit on them). I do flash my brakes, though, just to give them a heads up.

My brake lights flash five times, then stay steady on, so if I just blip them, they only flash. When stopped, I keep a constant eye on my side view mirrors. If a vehilcle is approaching, I apply my brakes to get their attention. So far, this has worked well. Tomorrow may be a different story, though!

I do believe your idea has merit, though.

[Rice]

Wow,.... feel better. It was just an idea. There were a couple members that were intrigued, obsessively you were not, and that's OK.

Freudian slip? :fing02: :beer: :blush:

[Rice]

I think that the idea is worth exploring.

There is definitely an issue to be addressed as I seem to be looking more in the RV mirror than in front when I get on the brakes while driving bike and cage.

Having said that, I think that there is a better, non-technical solution to this issue as was so "obsessively" :beer: :fing02: outlined by Trace.

[Macs06VFR]

I think this thread has been hijacked, but I'd like to address a couple things

More importantly, what oil you gonna run in that engine :rolleyes:

I like the idea, but that's not really important. At the very least, it's worth exploring...

Run with it!

I too look forward to the 'how to'.

[BusyLittleShop]

Hard engine braking was only a problem my V4 posed to the pack of my

I4s friends... cammy hit I4s don't posses engine breaking to the

degree my V4 did... so as we would over take the slow movers my abrupt

engine braking after the pass would cause the I4 behind me to almost

harpoon me... they complained that the way my V4 slowed after I

chopped the throttle was like following a bike with a inoperative brake light...

[coderighter]

Wow,.... feel better. It was just an idea. There were a couple members that were intrigued, obsessively you were not, and that's OK.

Freudian slip? :rolleyes: :biggrin: :laugh:

Now that's funny!

Guess I'm going to have to stop posting so late at night.

[Guest Nungboy]

Engine braking is a reality and most cagers don't get it (auto trans mentality) and they even try to run over my manual trans Tacoma.

People, by and large are idiots whenever they drive (and esp when they multi-task)

Use of brakes is good.

Use of Hyper Lites is better (see my recent thread)

Drive FAST and brake EARLY. Flash em with your Hyper Lites!

Did I mention that most people are idiots?

[Knife]

I engine brake with my cage automatic tranny. Hasn't fallen out yet, and sure saves on brake pads. Guess I just miss having a manual trans.

[Guest Nungboy]

Hard engine braking was only a problem my V4 posed to the pack of my

I4s friends... cammy hit I4s don't posses engine breaking to the

degree my V4 did... so as we would over take the slow movers my abrupt

engine braking after the pass would cause the I4 behind me to almost

harpoon me... they complained that the way my V4 slowed after I

chopped the throttle was like following a bike with a inoperative brake light...

Yes, my in-line 3 (Daytona) and my in-line 4 (ZX-10R) don't engine brake nearly as much as the VFR did. It is not BAD thing, just different...unless as you say you have an in-line 4 behind you with Captain Ahab piloting it!

(And be VERY WORRIED if you have that WHITE 2006 VFR!!! He really wants to harpoon THAT ONE!)

[coderighter]

Hard engine braking was only a problem my V4 posed to the pack of my

I4s friends... cammy hit I4s don't posses engine breaking to the

degree my V4 did... so as we would over take the slow movers my abrupt

engine braking after the pass would cause the I4 behind me to almost

harpoon me... they complained that the way my V4 slowed after I

chopped the throttle was like following a bike with a inoperative brake light...

I've noticed the same thing. My VFR engine brakes a lot harder the my ZRX did. Do you think it a VTEC thing? 8 valves instead of 16?

[spud786]

Hard engine braking was only a problem my V4 posed to the pack of my

I4s friends... cammy hit I4s don't posses engine breaking to the

degree my V4 did... so as we would over take the slow movers my abrupt

engine braking after the pass would cause the I4 behind me to almost

harpoon me... they complained that the way my V4 slowed after I

chopped the throttle was like following a bike with a inoperative brake light...

I've noticed the same thing. My VFR engine brakes a lot harder the my ZRX did. Do you think it a VTEC thing? 8 valves instead of 16?

No its an I4 thing, less engine braking than a v motor. I use engine braking secondary to the brakes, never an issue with getting run over or closing the gap behind me. Cause I'm carrying alot of momentum and not excessively using engine rpm to slow, which the vfr will do cause it has alot of it.

I use it in coordination with the brakes, I think we got some difference in technique thats creating issue

[Bent]

No. It's a bad idea to let any kind of vehicle be up your azz when you need to brake hard. I keep all of them well behind me ALL the time.

[enzed_viffer]

Well coderighter, I think your idea has merit, especially if you can get the appropriate trigger threshhold. :blush:

Where would be without people having creative ideas and putting them into practice?

A couple of years back, I had my son make me a programmable version of the Hyperlights flashing brakelight. It worked really well, until something in the circuitry blew. The really crazy thing was the local transport agency had decreed they were illegal! You know what the reason was? They said they thought they would cause target fixation!

What's even crazier, is some time after I had them on the VFR, they were one of that same agency's proposals to reduce motorcycle accidents!