3rd Or 5th Gen Rear Rim On A 4th Gen?

[Auspanglish]

Hello one and all,

just a quicky (a quick question that is :salesman: .)

Is it possible, and if so is it advisable to fit the rear wheel from another gen on a 4th gen? I can imagine at least one downside to running wider tyres up the back, but perhaps there are others. Don't want to give legs to the power of suggestion so I'll say no more.

A buddy of mine over here in Spain is looking to use a rim which shoes a 180 instead of the 170 the 4th gen comes with as stock. Why you may ask? Because the 170 (at least over here) is a rather rare sizing and thus is not prone to being on offer at discount prices due to the numbers crunch.

Anyone? Anyone? Someone?

[Baileyrock]

Yes! Don't remember which use, but some will require either modding the bolts or wheel.

Others will supply details, there's several threads on the subject if you search deep enough. One only a week or two old. :thumbsup:

[Veefer800Canuck]

On the '94-'97 750cc rear hub, there are 4 bolt heads for the rear brake rotor that protrude inbetween the wheel studs like so:

hub1.jpg

You'll have to modify the (1998-2007 800cc) wheel like this to get it to clear the bolt heads:

wheel mod.jpg

Don't forget to file the corners round by hand. Don't want any 90' square corners where cracks could (possibly) start.

Nicely radiused corners are preferable. :thumbsup:

Note that the 5th gen doesn't have the protruding bolt heads on it's hub, they have a very thin head and sit below the hub face:

100_0205.jpg

[Guest]

how about a single nut conversion???..any pics for that?....

[Beck]

You'll have to modify the (1998-2007 800cc) wheel like this to get it to clear the bolt heads:

wheel mod.jpg

Don't forget to file the corners round by hand. Don't want any 90' square corners where cracks could (possibly) start.

Nicely radiused corners are preferable. :thumbsup:

Dangit! that pic makes me cringe everytime I see it. Kinda went crazy with the sawzall cutting those bolt notches??

I would say that you have to do a cleaner job cutting those notches and be sure to properly radius all cuts or be in danger of creating stress risers on the wheel that can start cracks. That area does not look highly stressed, but better be safe than sorry when dealing with critical components on bikes like aluminuim rear wheels. :rolleyes:

JMO

Beck

95 VFR

[FotoMoto]

how about a single nut conversion???..any pics for that?....

Just make a cover:

My apologies to regular readers who've seen this shot about 10 times in the last two or so weeks.

[FotoMoto]

Dangit! that pic makes me cringe everytime I see it. JMO

This mod has been done for years with no reported issues.

[Veefer800Canuck]

Dangit! that pic makes me cringe everytime I see it. Kinda went crazy with the sawzall cutting those bolt notches??

I would say that you have to do a cleaner job cutting those notches and be sure to properly radius all cuts or be in danger of creating stress risers on the wheel that can start cracks. That area does not look highly stressed, but better be safe than sorry when dealing with critical components on bikes like aluminuim rear wheels. :rolleyes:

JMO

Beck

95 VFR

Not my bike.

[CitizenOfDreams]

A buddy of mine over here in Spain is looking to use a rim which shoes a 180 instead of the 170 the 4th gen comes with as stock.

180/55 tire fits just fine on a stock Gen 4 rim, that's what I'm using.

[Veefer800Canuck]

Yes, a 180 CAN fit on a 5" rim, but it's OPTIMAL on a 5.5" rim.

[keny]

wasnt the 3rd gen rear wheel a streight fit to the 4the gen. I remember some one wrieting so here in some topic.

[Rogue]

wasnt the 3rd gen rear wheel a streight fit to the 4the gen. I remember some one wrieting so here in some topic.

3rd Gen fits all later bikes.

It is the be all and end all. :thumbsup:

[Beck]

Dangit! that pic makes me cringe everytime I see it. JMO

This mod has been done for years with no reported issues.

I know, but it's how bad it was done in that instance that's bothering me. Looks like the guy that cut the nothches was on a caffeine buzz the way it's so rough and jagged.

Beck

95 VFR

[Guest]

so if you buy an aftermarker wheel...a third gen fitment would be ideal...if you ever moved to a newer bike you could keep the wheel.....

[The Phantom]

so if you buy an aftermarker wheel...a third gen fitment would be ideal...if you ever moved to a newer bike you could keep the wheel.....

Yes, in theory. The theory falls over when you learn that there's no aftermarket wheels that use the four-bolt pattern... you need to fit a single-spindle hub for all of them.

So get a 3rd Gen wheel, and you can fit it to the newer ones no problem. It's heavier of course, but hey, bling has a cost :lol:

[Beck]

In the end, it's gonna be a heavier wheel + heavier tire = slower acceleration = more bling, but less fun????

I'd stay with the original five spoke, IIWY.

Beck

95 VFR

[Auspanglish]

In the end, it's gonna be a heavier wheel + heavier tire = slower acceleration = more bling, but less fun????

I'd stay with the original five spoke, IIWY.

Beck

95 VFR

Surely the difference in weight is negligible. I'm sure it wouldn't be as great as the difference between when using or not using a tank-bag full of stuff on a long-weekend or two-day trip, or saddlebags (weight up the back). But, if it is true that the 3rd gen wheel requires no mods for fitting to the 4th gen like the 5th gen wheel would, then the REAL QUESTION is: does the 3rd gen shoe a 180?? That is, after all, the original reason behind this thread!! Also, even though you can "oblige" a 180 to fit on a 4th gen rim, I imagine this could be potentially dangerous on a track day, right? Under extreme conditions S.T.S. (so to speak)???

Thanks to all for their contributions so far, I did imagine that the topic had probably come up previously but every time I've had to look for topics in the past I usually end up wasting a good hour and not really finding anything, so I took the short-cut, may the modereitors forgive me...

[Baileyrock]

In the end, it's gonna be a heavier wheel + heavier tire = slower acceleration = more bling, but less fun????

I'd stay with the original five spoke, IIWY.

Beck

95 VFR

Surely the difference in weight is negligible. I'm sure it wouldn't be as great as the difference between when using or not using a tank-bag full of stuff on a long-weekend or two-day trip, or saddlebags (weight up the back). But, if it is true that the 3rd gen wheel requires no mods for fitting to the 4th gen like the 5th gen wheel would, then the REAL QUESTION is: does the 3rd gen shoe a 180?? That is, after all, the original reason behind this thread!! Also, even though you can "oblige" a 180 to fit on a 4th gen rim, I imagine this could be potentially dangerous on a track day, right? Under extreme conditions S.T.S. (so to speak)???

Thanks to all for their contributions so far, I did imagine that the topic had probably come up previously but every time I've had to look for topics in the past I usually end up wasting a good hour and not really finding anything, so I took the short-cut, may the modereitors forgive me...

Yes, the 3rd gen has the desired 8 spoke 5.5" rear wheel. :thumbsup:

[Auspanglish]

Yes, the 3rd gen has the desired 8 spoke 5.5" rear wheel. :thumbsup:

GOOD ONE!! CHEERS!! Owe you one

[SAFE-T]

how about a single nut conversion???..any pics for that?....

055.jpg This is the main pic shown in Cycle Canada's April '06 'Showcase'

Swiffer fit a 6.0" Magnesium Marchesini on the converted spindle I did for his '94

[Veefer800Canuck]

I know, but it's how bad it was done in that instance that's bothering me. Looks like the guy that cut the nothches was on a caffeine buzz the way it's so rough and jagged.

Beck

95 VFR

Obviously he hasn't cleaned them up yet, (see the metal fragments hanging on the edges) that's probably the initial notching, followed by smoothing and radiusing (I would hope).

[Beck]

In the end, it's gonna be a heavier wheel + heavier tire = slower acceleration = more bling, but less fun????

I'd stay with the original five spoke, IIWY.

Beck

95 VFR

Surely the difference in weight is negligible. I'm sure it wouldn't be as great as the difference between when using or not using a tank-bag full of stuff on a long-weekend or two-day trip, or saddlebags (weight up the back). But, if it is true that the 3rd gen wheel requires no mods for fitting to the 4th gen like the 5th gen wheel would, then the REAL QUESTION is: does the 3rd gen shoe a 180?? That is, after all, the original reason behind this thread!! Also, even though you can "oblige" a 180 to fit on a 4th gen rim, I imagine this could be potentially dangerous on a track day, right? Under extreme conditions S.T.S. (so to speak)???

Thanks to all for their contributions so far, I did imagine that the topic had probably come up previously but every time I've had to look for topics in the past I usually end up wasting a good hour and not really finding anything, so I took the short-cut, may the modereitors forgive me...

Squeezing in a 180 on the 5" rim can be done, but not advisable. Your tires profile will be affected and you will have unusable big strips at both side edges of the tire where they will be too vertical and never contact the road even at extreme lean angles. This was a problem with 170 section Dunlop's 207s which were made too wide so they were more like 180's. The tread edges on my 170 207 were so vertical that it looks scary to even try and scuff it up to the edges. I assume that the same would apply to a 180 tire on the 5" rim. Also, double check on the 3rd gen wheel. I don't think that it has the proper notches on it to accomodate the 4th gen hub bolts. If I remember right, 3rd, 5th and 6th gens are interchangable, but the 4th gen is the oddball one out of luck.

Good Luck on your wheel search!

Beck

95 VFR

[Auspanglish]

Squeezing in a 180 on the 5" rim can be done, but not advisable. Your tires profile will be affected and you will have unusable big strips at both side edges of the tire where they will be too vertical and never contact the road even at extreme lean angles. This was a problem with 170 section Dunlop's 207s which were made too wide so they were more like 180's. The tread edges on my 170 207 were so vertical that it looks scary to even try and scuff it up to the edges. I assume that the same would apply to a 180 tire on the 5" rim. Also, double check on the 3rd gen wheel. I don't think that it has the proper notches on it to accomodate the 4th gen hub bolts. If I remember right, 3rd, 5th and 6th gens are interchangable, but the 4th gen is the oddball one out of luck.

Good Luck on your wheel search!

Beck

95 VFR

You just threw a spanner in the works!! :goofy: Cheesh, still, better to be aware of it than not!! If you are right, then you just solved the previous "problem" you yourself proposed: namely a heavier wheel. If modifications must be done in order to accomodate the hub bolts, whether it be a 3rd, 5th or 6th gen wheel being applied, due to the 4th gen being the black sheep of the family, then why not kill two birds with one stone and use a 5th gen wheel? These must surely be lighter than 3rd gen ones. Then it would be a win win situation :thumbsup:

Anyone care to clear this up??

What would I do without you guys, there's just so much useful knowledge accumulated between you all. This obviously comes from years of dedication to the VFR and a serious tinkering habit!! You don't get too many Frankenviffers in our modest Spanish VFR Club. Thanks guys!!

BTW BaileyRock, you will be pleased to know that Chonsey and Co. have just spent a (hopefully) pleasant and eventful (in the good sense) stay both at my joint and in Valencia for a MotoGP holiday. They were, as is to be expected, given the royal treatment while under my charge and I hope I have been able to cater for their needs satisfactorily. It's my way of giving something back to this forum. The local Murcia and Valencia clubs were involved in organizing a scenic and gastronimcal route, in the form of a day-trip from Murcia to Valencia with ample curves and a total of some 15 bikes (mostly VFRs) as an entourage. They are currently discovering Gaudi's city of Barcelona. Will post up photos and the odd short video soon...

[The Phantom]

3rd Gen wheel goes onto all VFRs - I have one bolted to my 4th Gen with no mods, and prior to it going on my bike it was on a mate's 6th Gen.

It's only when you want to fit a 5th/6th Gen wheel to 3rd/4th Gen that you need to do some modification, as Rob posted up in post #3 of this topic.

I did four days in Australia's Snowy Mountains with a 180 Pilot Road on a 4th Gen wheel and it handled beautifully the whole time - scraping pegs at will and no issues with turn-in or stability. So, 180 Pilots at least go just fine on the 5" rim. Can't speak for other tyre brands. I have run a 160 on my 4th Gen too and it was great.

Regarding weight - yes we're only talking small amounts, but remember that this is unsprung weight, and therefore less is always better for optimum suspension dynamics.

That said, it's not going to be a problem for 99.9% of VFR riders.

[SAFE-T]

Regarding weight - yes we're only talking small amounts, but remember that this is unsprung weight, and therefore less is always better for optimum suspension dynamics.

VFR single sided rear wheels from heaviest to lightest:

3rd gen, 5th/6th gen, 4th gen

4th gen wheel is same weight as 5.5" Marchesini Alloy

[Auspanglish]

3rd Gen wheel goes onto all VFRs - I have one bolted to my 4th Gen with no mods, and prior to it going on my bike it was on a mate's 6th Gen.

It's only when you want to fit a 5th/6th Gen wheel to 3rd/4th Gen that you need to do some modification, as Rob posted up in post #3 of this topic.

I did four days in Australia's Snowy Mountains with a 180 Pilot Road on a 4th Gen wheel and it handled beautifully the whole time - scraping pegs at will and no issues with turn-in or stability. So, 180 Pilots at least go just fine on the 5" rim. Can't speak for other tyre brands. I have run a 160 on my 4th Gen too and it was great.

Regarding weight - yes we're only talking small amounts, but remember that this is unsprung weight, and therefore less is always better for optimum suspension dynamics.

That said, it's not going to be a problem for 99.9% of VFR riders.

Wicked!! I'll let my mate know, as this does seem to be the definitive on the matter. I hope :rolleyes:

Although, the thot plickens

As far as the UNSPRUNG weight goes, I don't (in my limited knowledge) see how the wheel would affect suspension dynamics as it rests on the ground via the tyre and is not held up by the suspension like, for example, sadllebags would. I can understand if it were to have a greater (or lesser) diameter, it might raise or lower the rear and thus change the rake of the bike and to a small degree the suspension dynamics / handling, but please explain!!! My lonesome neuron says this does not compute. I can see that the transmission would have to provide (and again it must be an almost negligible difference) more torque to turn a slightly heavier wheel, and thus would tax the engine a smidgin more, but surely it's going to be like a difference of a few cents worth of gas over a long period of time. You would also once again have a slightly lower centre of gravity, thus modifying handling in terms of breaking the inertia on entering corners, etc. but again it must hardly be noticeable. It would depend on just how much more the thing weighs!!

Interesting to see the 4th gen wheel is the lightest!!! So, just what is the difference in weight of these babies???

Keep it comin' keep it comin' :thumbsup: