Pilot Road Incident

[Guest matt_c]

This is my second set of Pilot Roads (front and rear) that I have had on my VFR. I have loved them till now, because I have not pushed them to their limits (which is actually pretty far).

But, Yesterday while riding the Dragons Tail, I low sided in a corner at about 60 mph or so. The Pilot Road gave up on me mid way through the corner, it just couldnt hold on any longer. I dumped the bike and went for a little slide across the pavement and then through some grass before tumbling down a hill about 10 feet. Nothing too bad all in all, it ripped off the left foot peg, bent down the left handlebar, busted the turn signal and rear upper front fairing mounting points, and scratched up the tail pretty good. I only got a little rash on my left knee from wearing only bluejeans (spare me the lecture, its all I have right now) and my neck is a little soar from tumbling (I could not imagine not having a helmet on for this, it would have been bad).

So anyway, my point to all this is, I do not recommend Pilot Roads front and rear for the VFR if you plan on pushing the VFR to its limits in the twisities. I am going to try replacing the front with a Pilot Power instead of a Road, and then just replace it everytime I replace a rear tire. This was the hardest I had ever ridden the VFR and the front tire just wasn't up for it, but I dont think I will push it this hard ever again regardless, because the VFR just isnt a CBR no matter what, and shouldnt be ridden like it is.

Funny note, its kinda uncomfortble riding a VFR with a bent handlebar and missing a foot peg, for 200 miles on your way home from the Gap, IN THE RAIN!! But it was still fun! :thumbsup: :beer:

[SEBSPEED]

I've personally come to terms with having to tone down my riding with sport touring tires. The Z4s on my bike have been slippin' and slidin' since day one, and haven't gotten any better, although I have to say that their (crappy for sport) performance has been consistent throughout their (so far) 3300 mile life. If I was a primarily straight-line rider, I would buy another set. BUT, I have a new set of AV45/46 Avons ready to go in a couple days, I hope they are what they're hyped up to be. Sorry about your lowside, I've been there more than once, and can say that as long as you don't get hurt too bad, it's always a good learning experience! :thumbsup:

[Guest]

my point to all this is, I do not recommend Pilot Roads front and rear for the VFR if you plan on pushing the VFR to its limits in the twisities.

First, I'm glad you are ok.

Second, I 100% agree. PR's are not for aggressive riding.

I too have had them slip and slid all over the place on me. (especially when cold)

It's a great tire for casual aggression and mileage though.

[benSV]

What exactly were you doing when you dumped?

Were you on the gas?

Were you going downhill?

Were you on an off camber section?

Was the radius of the corner changing?

Did you trail brake into the corner?

Did you overcook the corner such that you were off the throttle when you tucked the front?

What tire pressures were you running?

Were you actually dragging the pegs and/or your knee when you lost the front?

Where exactly were you within the dragon?

Not trying to bash you but if you blame the tire 100% for this there is a perfectly good chance you will do the exact same thing again with stickier tires. Figure out all the variables that contributed to the crash and you're less likely to repeat it. Lots of people get along perfectly fine with S-T tires and plenty of us have even had good experiences at the track with them. All tires slide given the wrong inputs, and IME I slide the sporty tires more as they must be warmed up and are more demanding of proper tire pressures.

[Baileyrock]

But, Yesterday while riding the Dragons Tail, I low sided in a corner at about 60 mph or so.

Sorry about your Lowside Matt, but were the heck can you be doing 60 mph in a turn on the Dragon? :pissed: 30-40 would be screeming through most of them.

I too never liked the Roads at the Pace I normally run, thought they were very veg feeling over my 8/10ths and slid often(rear). I think Strada's felt much better at speed(better feedback), but still no match for a Sport tire if you ride at this level.

Another thing that happens to any tires (even sport) when full lean is a rarity, is that they get slick on this unused outer edge of the tire (and slide/loose grip the first time over on it) or develope a second lip at the edge of your normal lean angle which can cause a slip when crossed too. Flatlander tire.

War wound's are cool, what would you need to still make the Fall ride?

[soichiro]

Glad your o.k. Baileyrock, thats what I was thinking. 60 mph at the gap is hauling. 60 is possible but thats about all there is on vfr. Since when cant the vfr be ridden like a cbr. :pissed:

[fallzboater]

I've never had a big problem pushing the front PR either, although I have slipped the rear a bit. After last weekend's PNW meet, my rear PR is toast after 5k miles (half highway, no track), so I do ride fairly hard. Sounds like you must've had some pretty good front loading. I tend to take my time setting up turns, and drive hard out of them.

What do you all recommend as a better tire for aggressive riding, yet still comparable to the PR as far as wear, and decent cold and wet performance? I might try one of the free front tire deals going on now, even if I do end up going through the rear real quick. Which is likely longer wearing?

The worst thing for me with going through tires is that I have to drive the wheels an hour each way in my cage to get somewhere that can mount and balance them!

[Guest matt_c]

I looked at the map and I think I was at Thunder Road Bend (although Im not too familiar with the names and locations of the curves), which is right after a "straight" section (I was heading back down the tail towards Tennessee line). Thats why I was doing 60ish, my best guess. I was moving pretty good, but that all personall opinion which may mean super slow to some of you guys around here, I have no idea.

I made no abrupt inputs, not brake, not gas, not body position, nada. The curve was going smooth just like the last 1000 or so I had ran before (this was my 6th trip down the Dragons Tail in the matter of about 2 hours), I was dragging the snot out of the pegs, not hard on a VFR, in fact I find it problematic (hence the not a CBR comment), then suddenly bam, I was on the ground sliding behind the bike.

O.k. my comment about riding the VFR like a CBR pertains only to me, I just need to slow down, the rest of you disregard this statement.

[Guest matt_c]

Bailey,

I may still make it to the get together in Sept. but it wont be until Saturday Night or Sunday morning at the soonest, and if the Wife is not afraid of me going up there now. I have to attend my nephews first birthday party, which, I love him dearly, but he'll never remember a thing about it. :D

on a side note, me and some guys from the georgia sportbike website are gonna make a 1000 mile trip in 24 hours on November the 11th and 12th. We are gonna ride from Atlanta towards New Orleans in some round about way that makes it a 1000 mile ride. So if any of you are into that sort of torture, you should come along. For this ride, Pilot Roads should be great!

-Matt

[Das Viffer]

Hey Matt glad your Ok and didnt make out TOO bad. Hell I have been down 3 times at over 40 mph and they were due to my inexperience and eagerness to push a Bike with substandard tires and suspension for conditions. Being that I am now tired of roadrash and forking out money I make sure to shod very sticky rubber if going to push it. Normally I use BT020's for everyday and sport-touring and they do well enough to get that suede pattern on edge of tires. Hope to do the Dragon this fall when I am on leave from the Air Base.

Cheers

[dutchinterceptor]

That sucks that you went down. Definitely spoils the fun

FWIW: I just drove in from 4 days and 1200 miles in Arkansas. I left with a half used PR front and a new PR rear and only had the front slide once. The reason was sand scattered through a sweeping turn at an intersection. It did that little slip and then caught again.

I am definitely no Baileyrock but I was pushing the devil out my VFR and I weight 225!! I hammer it coming out of every turn but have yet to slide the rear. It seems like mine take forever to warm up though. The leader in our group rides a Road wearing FZ1 and is totally satisfied also.

[Baileyrock]

Bailey,

I may still make it to the get together in Sept. but it wont be until Saturday Night or Sunday morning at the soonest, and if the Wife is not afraid of me going up there now. I have to attend my nephews first birthday party, which, I love him dearly, but he'll never remember a thing about it.

on a side note, me and some guys from the georgia sportbike website are gonna make a 1000 mile trip in 24 hours on November the 11th and 12th. We are gonna ride from Atlanta towards New Orleans in some round about way that makes it a 1000 mile ride. So if any of you are into that sort of torture, you should come along. For this ride, Pilot Roads should be great!

-Matt

Let us know if you need some pieces parts to be able to make it, maybe we can help! :thumbsup:

I would try a set of Stradas next time if you want to stay with the ST type of tires, IMO they provided far superior grip and feedback over the Roads in the twisties. :goofy: Also I would tend to run a Sport front and a ST rear just because I'd rather loose the rear than the front! :pissed:

[soichiro]

Oh yeah, kudos for riding a busted bike home in the rain. That must of been an adventure. :thumbsup:

[jeremy556]

The worst thing for me with going through tires is that I have to drive the wheels an hour each way in my cage to get somewhere that can mount and balance them!

Change them yourself. I started changing them myself because the time it cost me to go to a dealer and wait for them to do it, I can go home and do it in like 1/8th the time it takes taking it somewhere.

[Guest]

Oh yeah, kudos for riding a busted bike home in the rain. That must of been an adventure. :thumbsup:

[tinyminds]

Sorry to hear. We had just left to go up the skyway as you all went down the gap. We came back through about 2 hours later I guess. Glad your ok though thats the biggest thing. There was about 13 of us that was moving pretty fast after I look back at it. I hit my left foot peg a couple times in the rain. I know what area your talking about though I usually haul through there too. Hope to seeya back in Sept. Bet the ride home w/ no footpeg was just a blast. Take it easy.

[Brown81]

Sorry to hear. We had just left to go up the skyway as you all went down the gap. We came back through about 2 hours later I guess. Glad your ok though thats the biggest thing. There was about 13 of us that was moving pretty fast after I look back at it. I hit my left foot peg a couple times in the rain. I know what area your talking about though I usually haul through there too. Hope to seeya back in Sept. Bet the ride home w/ no footpeg was just a blast. Take it easy.

Draggin 'pegs in the rain??????? You guys must be nuts. We don't ride in the rain out here in California!!! :D

[benSV]

Check your sag... either you're so fast you didn't even need to post this to get advice (do you race?) or your suspension is undersprung making it easy to drag stuff.... the VFR really doesn't drag that easily.. more easily then a race rep but it still has an awful lot of ground clearance for a street bike.

[HispanicSlammer]

ANY tire will give way if you make a mistake on the throttle or run over somthing that cuts your traction, rock, oil, ya know. Your absolutely sure you did everything right and it just gave way? Riding at 10/10ths you can make a small mistake on the throttle or braking and all of a sudden your lowsiding!

I have pushed P Roads pretty hard too, and have slipped but only because I made a stupid mistake like rolling off too hard, braking too late in a corner, or just gassing too hard leaned over comming out. Its easy to upset the grip if you jerk the throttle harshly. Ya know small slides, a few big ones I managed to save going over tar snakes or gravel in the road.

[Guest]

Wow sorry to hear about the accident and glad your ok. I have Pilot Roads and when pushing hard can scrape my pegs on a regular basis before I back off. Maybe mine were from a good batch.

[Guest matt_c]

Check your sag... either you're so fast you didn't even need to post this to get advice (do you race?) or your suspension is undersprung making it easy to drag stuff.... the VFR really doesn't drag that easily.. more easily then a race rep but it still has an awful lot of ground clearance for a street bike.

ben, I realize you completely doubt that Im telling the truth, but that doesnt really matter.

Im not a racer, never claim to be and I dont even claim to be fast.

But heres the deal, I only weigh 170lbs, which is about the ideal weight for any stock suspension and should be perfect on the VFR, the preload is set corrrectly and my sag is right. The pegs are low if you ask me, and they scrape too soon and the stock suspension on these bikes is sub par for riding hard in the tight stuff. But is fine for touring with MILD sport riding.

However, you sound like you are the expert here and very fast and full of knowledge, so do me a favor, come to the Dragons Tail in September and let me follow you through it, maybe I can learn a thing or two from you. :thumbsup:

[WERA910]

Matt, sorry to hear about your fall... I've certainly been there a few times...

I, however, had a totally different experience with the pilot roads... shortly after I got them, I had a chance to do a track day at Barber with WERA803 and I didn't have another bike to take. I rode all day on the Roads, and they performed fantastically. I think I put another 3000 miles on the rear after that, and about 5000 on the front and I was very impressed. If I had to buy tires for the VFR I would probably be on those... as it is, I'm working through a few take-offs and other stuff.

This weekend, I rode the north GA mountains on my vfr, coincidentally with my pal Marty from Newnan. I currently have a D208gp front and a D220 rear... both of them about 3 to 4 yrs old, but came off of other bikes or wheels I've had and were sitting around. I found the D220 to be real slow steering and somewhat slippery at first... but getting it up to temp on Blood Mountain and Wolf Pen Gap they showed a totally different character... enough that I could comfortably pass several dedicated sportbikes up there.... including a really nice S4R in flat black (what a sweet bike!), zx9r's, couple of 600RR's, etc...

Let's not forget that even the great ones on MotoGP bikes slide the front and lowside occasionally... I seem to remember Rossi even doing it once this year!

[Guest matt_c]

Some photos and where I think I wrecked at. Ill be able to know for sure when I go back.

lowside.jpg Where I low sided I think.

Low Side at the Gap Low Side at the Gap

Gap Ride August 20th Fun times

[skuuter]

Sorry about your Lowside Matt, but were the heck can you be doing 60 mph in a turn on the Dragon? :blink: 30-40 would be screeming through most of them.

Been following this thread...when the 60mph came up, I told the wife "if a lot of the VFRD group can run the Gap at 60mph corner speeds, we need lawn chairs in Sept. instead of riding..... :beer:

[speedracer2235]

This is just the reason why Im thinking of taking my (new to me) Bandit 400 up there in Sept instead of the VFR. I havnt worn the new off yet and it is my now daily. Got rid of my truck. I bought the Bandit just for thrashing the corners in the Gap. (hey the best 250bucks Ive spent) My buddy has a cabin over the resort up there so I plan on going often as I can.