Dorian Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 I've got a 2007 Gen 6. Long story short it had a full catless stainless steel exhaust when I got it, but no other mods, and as expected the throttle response was really, really bad. PAIR and o2 eliminators made a big impovement. PC5 and custom map improved it a bit more. Even so, I don't really like the way it rides. 1. Even with the improvements made, throttle response is still average at best 2. The gearbox is quite rough when doing high RPM upshifts under full throttle. Someone else I know with way more riding experience than me has this on his 2009 so it's not my bike or technique. Before finding this bike I was actually searching for a 5th gen but couldn't find the right one. I had a sit on one yesterday and liked it a lot though. From researching around, people are saying that 5th gen throttle smoothness is generally better than the 6th gen. But what's the story with the gearbox - is it the same gearbox between the generations? Struggling to get a test ride anywhere so having to research as much as I can in advance. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 I've had three 6th gens and each of them had throttle issues at purchase. None of the them exactly the same. Each of them was cured with a starter valve sync and fuel controller. One of them was almost unrideable due to throttle cable slack. All of mine have been really smooth shifting. You could try a shift star for some improvement. Those two things are fairly cheap improvements if you can't find the bike you want. I've ridden a few 5th gens and don't find them that much different after the mods to my bike. The fueling issues on 6th gens cost Honda a lot of sales in my opinion as it gave the 6th gens a lot of bad reviews. In the end, it has become common on a lot of fuel injected bikes from the factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFR750F3 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Get a 1/6 motion pro throttle tube from a R6 you will not be disappointed. It will wake up the bike and your senses. Did you change the gearing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 4 hours ago, Sweeper said: I've had three 6th gens and each of them had throttle issues at purchase. None of the them exactly the same. Each of them was cured with a starter valve sync and fuel controller. One of them was almost unrideable due to throttle cable slack. All of mine have been really smooth shifting. You could try a shift star for some improvement. Those two things are fairly cheap improvements if you can't find the bike you want. I've ridden a few 5th gens and don't find them that much different after the mods to my bike. The fueling issues on 6th gens cost Honda a lot of sales in my opinion as it gave the 6th gens a lot of bad reviews. In the end, it has become common on a lot of fuel injected bikes from the factory. Good to know thanks. You're right I could balance the starter valves. Injector cleaning could also be due. But I don't do my own maintenance beyond oil and filters so it could get pricey and I've already spend nearly 400GBP on the PC and map. Think I'm done with spending tbh, time for a fresh start. Sounds like the 5th gen rideabilty and throttle response starts from a better place though. That combined with no VTEC is a positive. I'll have to test ride to see how the gearbox is. On the 5th gen the later models are closer to the 6th Gen, having wax unit, cat and o2 sensors. Has anyone ridden both models and how do they compare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted February 9, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted February 9, 2023 4 hours ago, Dorian said: On the 5th gen the later models are closer to the 6th Gen, having wax unit, cat and o2 sensors. Has anyone ridden both models and how do they compare? I have one of each and am not sure I really notice a difference. The '98 used to feel like it had mroe juice, but I rode the '00 today and the front wheel kept lifting on it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 8 minutes ago, bmart said: I have one of each and am not sure I really notice a difference. The '98 used to feel like it had mroe juice, but I rode the '00 today and the front wheel kept lifting on it too. Thanks. Where are you based?' I'm in UK so will be getting European spec. Aiming to get a late low mileage model so good to hear you don't think the later models ride any worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer ShipFixer Posted February 9, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted February 9, 2023 @Dorian the 6th gen has aggressive emissions controls built into the ECU. It will dial back mixture in steady cruise even with O2 eliminators installed. So even though it has closed loop control, it exhibits the same behavior without feedback. A PC won't fix it because its not closed loop real time correction of ECU outputs to sensor inputs either; its a map on top of whatever comes out, so unless it is rich enough mid band you still get the same behavior. Short version / try this: turn the key on, kill switch on. Now turn off at key. Key on...and hit the starter BEFORE the pump whine and dash sequence finishes. For one reason or another this bypasses or faults out the "closed loop" mode and eliminates the shitty behavior. Ride and see if that's better, especially at steady throttle. Long version: Rapid Bike is a fast processing unit between the ECU and the sensors, with real closed loop control. I no longer have to do the key switch sequence thing, and my throttle is as smooth as the 00-01s I've ridden. My bike irritated the hell out of me for years. If you Google the older threads here on VFRD, you will see this topic dominated most of the 6th gen discussions. We all tried all the things. But the key switch thing wasn't discovered until sometime in the middle of the 2010's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share Posted February 10, 2023 @ShipFixer I think I've tried this before and didn't notice a significant difference. Just to check, it's basically turn the key but don't crank, wait for the pump to prime, then key off and on again and crank immediately, before the pump has primed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer ShipFixer Posted February 10, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted February 10, 2023 Yup. What it specifically eliminates is the steady throttle leaning and surging at cruise RPMs, so if this isn't what you are noticing it might not be what you are looking for. Another thing that goes wrong - fuel injectors. Had mine cleaned (well, eBay used ones to reduce down time), and that plus sync is a tremendous difference too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted February 12, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted February 12, 2023 FYI, there was a good thread several years ago (5-10?) on the Bikersoracle (UK) VFR site about a swap of a 5th gen engine into a 6th gen chassis. It wasn't quite as straightforward as you might think. But, apparently the 6th gen chassis is a big improvement over the 5th, and the owner just wanted to get rid of the VTEC. (Sorry, I don't recall who started the thread.) That forum is on its last legs, so you might want to search for the thread before it goes "poof"! Ciao, JZH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 3 hours ago, JZH said: FYI, there was a good thread several years ago (5-10?) on the Bikersoracle (UK) VFR site about a swap of a 5th gen engine into a 6th gen chassis. It wasn't quite as straightforward as you might think. But, apparently the 6th gen chassis is a big improvement over the 5th, and the owner just wanted to get rid of the VTEC. (Sorry, I don't recall who started the thread.) That forum is on its last legs, so you might want to search for the thread before it goes "poof"! Ciao, JZH There are a few of them here on this forum(maybe not much anymore). @MiniCarver and @painterbob come to mind at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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