Member Contributer WDIV Posted April 12, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 12, 2023 Rad fan fuse popped and I don't know why. Got the bike to 234 in traffic trying to get gas and just headed home. Replaced the fuse and it popped the next day. I'm pretty sure replacing the fuse was the first time the fan has been on since I got the bike which doesn't make me feel better about the previous owner's work... replaced the fuse a second time and rode it to work and back today without issue. Have 5 spare fuses on me just in case. I took the fairings of and traced the obvious parts of the fan circuit wires and didn't see anything suspicious like nicks in the wiring or obviously loose connections. This bike is as much fun in the garage on stands as it is on the road LOL. Cheap exhaust for the temporary win. It's hard to find slipons that aren't ebay/amazon. I picked the wrong time to get a bike that seems to have little aftermarket support. Thanks for coming to my TED talk 😛  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted April 13, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted April 13, 2023 Make sure you can spin the fan freely by hand, and that there is nothing within the fan shroud that could jam the fan blade. Stationary in the garage you could simply remove the Black wire connection to the fan thermoswitch and with Ignition to On Ground this wire and the fan should spin up. Try this a few times to verify fan ops. If the fuse blows doing this and the fan spins freely then the motor has most likely developed some form of internal short. Good Luck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer WDIV Posted April 13, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Grum said: Make sure you can spin the fan freely by hand, and that there is nothing within the fan shroud that could jam the fan blade. Stationary in the garage you could simply remove the Black wire connection to the fan thermoswitch and with Ignition to On Ground this wire and the fan should spin up. Try this a few times to verify fan ops. If the fuse blows doing this and the fan spins freely then the motor has most likely developed some form of internal short. Good Luck. So that's exactly where I'm at. The fan spins freely. Nothing is touching it and everything is smooth. Tested the thermo switch (before I swapped the fuse, hilariously) since that's the first thing everyone recommends. When the fan kicked on I laughed a bit cus I started riding the bike in winter and never had issues with heat so the fan never needed to turn on. Holy balls is it loud lol. If the motor has an internal short... my fear... it'll be another 240 for an oem motor bleh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted April 13, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted April 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, WDIV said: So that's exactly where I'm at. The fan spins freely. Nothing is touching it and everything is smooth. Tested the thermo switch (before I swapped the fuse, hilariously) since that's the first thing everyone recommends. When the fan kicked on I laughed a bit cus I started riding the bike in winter and never had issues with heat so the fan never needed to turn on. Holy balls is it loud lol. If the motor has an internal short... my fear... it'll be another 240 for an oem motor bleh Unless you have a short between the fuse and fan then most likley its the fan itself. The thermoswitch can't be the issue as it's job is to create a short between the fan and Ground which makes it run. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer WDIV Posted April 13, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, Grum said: Unless you have a short between the fuse and fan then most likley its the fan itself. The thermoswitch can't be the issue as it's job is to create a short between the fan and Ground which makes it run. Welp. Time to burn more money 🤪 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer carlgustav Posted April 13, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted April 13, 2023 As long as you're in there fooling with the fan 'system', you might search the forum for info about upgrading or enhancing same. I believe I have seen posts about using an RC51 fan, override switches, and so on. I can't find the specifics at the moment, and my memory isn't what it used to be, but the info was out there. I have an override switch, and a 2nd fan in place, to use when idling in traffic. Just a thought ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer WDIV Posted April 13, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 13, 2023 5 hours ago, carlgustav said: As long as you're in there fooling with the fan 'system', you might search the forum for info about upgrading or enhancing same. I believe I have seen posts about using an RC51 fan, override switches, and so on. I can't find the specifics at the moment, and my memory isn't what it used to be, but the info was out there. I have an override switch, and a 2nd fan in place, to use when idling in traffic. Just a thought ... I was hoping to do just this but everything I read says the RC51 fan is useful in stop and go for a handful of degrees. An override switch is easy and just an extra grounding path which sounds good to me as a backup in case the thermistor ever does fail. A second fan you say? Hmmm. Honestly, if there was a front mounted radiator that fit well and could do the job, I'd be all over that. I'll start digging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer ShipFixer Posted April 14, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted April 14, 2023 I have an RC51 fan (blades) standing by but haven't gotten to it yet. Anecdotally, from here and elsewhere, fan failure or fan signal failure is pretty low on the list of common problems. The cooling system on my bike is one of the last untouched things and it has worked fine in hot desert rides, stop and go traffic on the DC beltway near you, etc. It does get hot but then the fan brings it down.   Would not consider a switch or fan blade mod to be up there with must-do things, like the R/R upgrade and stator recall. If you are going to pull things apart enough to get to the fan, and you're doing stuff like clutch covers, etc...might as well do it. But not a show stopper.  1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer bmart Posted April 14, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted April 14, 2023 I'm in the south and on a 5th gen and mine has wored fine also. The rare times I see high coolant temps, there's air in the system. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer WDIV Posted April 14, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 14, 2023 4 hours ago, bmart said: I'm in the south and on a 5th gen and mine has wored fine also. The rare times I see high coolant temps, there's air in the system. I've got coolant in my Amazon cart and I'm going to replace the coolant also for piece of mind (following the manual, of course)    12 hours ago, ShipFixer said: I have an RC51 fan (blades) standing by but haven't gotten to it yet. Anecdotally, from here and elsewhere, fan failure or fan signal failure is pretty low on the list of common problems. The cooling system on my bike is one of the last untouched things and it has worked fine in hot desert rides, stop and go traffic on the DC beltway near you, etc. It does get hot but then the fan brings it down.   Would not consider a switch or fan blade mod to be up there with must-do things, like the R/R upgrade and stator recall. If you are going to pull things apart enough to get to the fan, and you're doing stuff like clutch covers, etc...might as well do it. But not a show stopper.   I hope the fan isn't really failing but after popping two fuses (but absolutely fine on the two rides since??) I can't really figure out what's causing it shy of tearing into the wiring harness and going through that nightmare. RRs is upgraded. Stator is putting out the correct amount of juice for now. The Battery is new. The fairings are new chinese oem copies. Clutch cover is a seb piece. There just aren't a lot of reason for a fan fuse to pop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vfrgiving Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 I'm going to second the possibility of something stuck in the radiator in the fan blade area. I had something get up in the radiator of my fifth gen over the winter months and grab a blade tripping the fuse. I could get a few free rotations by hand and then get a grab.  It's possible there's something in there that is relaxed during your stationary tests, but once you get moving works its way into the path of the blades. I would pull the fan off the radiator face and check the area. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted April 14, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted April 14, 2023 3 hours ago, WDIV said: I hope the fan isn't really failing but after popping two fuses (but absolutely fine on the two rides since??) I can't really figure out what's causing it shy of tearing into the wiring harness and going through that nightmare. WDIV. Just confirming - Are you replacing the Fan Fuse with a 20amp Fuse? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer WDIV Posted April 14, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 14, 2023 9 minutes ago, vfrgiving said: I'm going to second the possibility of something stuck in the radiator in the fan blade area. I had something get up in the radiator of my fifth gen over the winter months and grab a blade tripping the fuse. I could get a few free rotations by hand and then get a grab.  It's possible there's something in there that is relaxed during your stationary tests, but once you get moving works its way into the path of the blades. I would pull the fan off the radiator face and check the area. On my list for tomorrow 🤘 Like the stator, the new fresh motor can be a future backup if worse comes to worst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer WDIV Posted April 14, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 14, 2023 1 minute ago, Grum said: WDIV. Just confirming - Are you replacing the Fan Fuse with a 20amp Fuse? Yup, yellow 20A mini fuse, not to be confused with microfuses... learned that lesson already lol  EDIT: The fuses I put in place for the first two pops were two fuses that came with the bike. They could have been 20 years old and on teh verge of dying anyways. I have thought of this as a possibility but I've only heard age being an issue with home fuses, not with car/bike fuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted April 14, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted April 14, 2023 3 hours ago, WDIV said: I've got coolant in my Amazon cart and I'm going to replace the coolant also for piece of mind (following the manual, of course) Is this Amazonian coolant High Quality, long life, Silicate and Borate free?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted April 14, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted April 14, 2023 On 4/13/2023 at 9:40 AM, WDIV said: Rad fan fuse popped and I don't know why. Got the bike to 234 in traffic trying to get gas and just headed home. Replaced the fuse and it popped the next day. Can you recall, when the fuse blows, does this happen randomly Or only at the temperature you'd expect the Fan to be operating at (208 to 216degF)? Â Do you have any additional non original wiring added to the bike? If so, could it be wired into the Fan Fuse circuit? Â Just trying to establish the possibility of excess load or short on the Fuse wiring between the Fuse and the Fan motor. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vfrgiving Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 52 minutes ago, WDIV said: On my list for tomorrow 🤘 Like the stator, the new fresh motor can be a future backup if worse comes to worst  You may find nothing. It's possible whatever it was worked its way free which is why the last two rides have been uneventful. After verifying the radiator is clear I would fire up the bike and let it get up to temp. Grab a beer and a chair. Let it go through a couple fan demand cycles, giving it a bit of throttle after a fan-off to speed up heating it back up to fan-on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer WDIV Posted April 15, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 15, 2023 22 hours ago, Grum said: Is this Amazonian coolant High Quality, long life, Silicate and Borate free?? "Red Line 80205 Engine Coolant Additive Supercool with Waterwetter" Allegedly great for bikes. Recommended in a few places. 🙂  22 hours ago, Grum said: Can you recall, when the fuse blows, does this happen randomly Or only at the temperature you'd expect the Fan to be operating at (208 to 216degF)?  Do you have any additional non original wiring added to the bike? If so, could it be wired into the Fan Fuse circuit?  Just trying to establish the possibility of excess load or short on the Fuse wiring between the Fuse and the Fan motor.   So far it's been random. The only additional wiring the PO installed was a volt meter that was run to the fuse box but I'm not sure how he HAD it setup because in the time I've been screwing around with swapping fuses... it's fallen out. I'm kind of hoping what you might be thinking. That wire wasn't solidly in place and may have cause the fuse to pop. Because of that though (and the wire falling out), I've decided to use a relay running off of the headlights to run the voltmeter. I doubt the voltmeter could draw enough excess voltage to cause it to pop but who knows.   22 hours ago, vfrgiving said:  You may find nothing. It's possible whatever it was worked its way free which is why the last two rides have been uneventful. After verifying the radiator is clear I would fire up the bike and let it get up to temp. Grab a beer and a chair. Let it go through a couple fan demand cycles, giving it a bit of throttle after a fan-off to speed up heating it back up to fan-on. Looks clear to me    Spinning as freely as she did before I removed her and put her back. 🙂  If it wasn't pouring outside, I'd try cycling the bike a few times... which means... 100 mile round trip jaunt tomorrow to see if everything is alright? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted April 15, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted April 15, 2023 The 20amp Fan Fuse blowing randomly (when engine doesn't need fan cooling) throws a whole new light on the subject. Â You have a short to Ground somewhere between the Fuse and the Fan Motor. This is a Black/Blue wire. When you had the fan off the bike did you closely examine the wiring of the fan? Did any of the wiring look like is was crushed or damaged? Did you try running the fan while it was out of the bike? Â Without knowing exactly how the previous owner wired whatever, if in doubt remove it and re assess the situation, see if you no longer blow the fuse. Your headlight/voltmeter wiring mod looks good. Note that with the distance from the battery, interconnections, the relay etc. you will have a small amount of voltage drop, meaning, the actual battery voltage will be seen as slightly less on the voltmeter, compare a reading directly at the battery to what your new meter reads, you'll see what I mean. Â Ultimately if you're confident the fan is good and you randomly continue to blow the fuse but you cannot find where the short is then the Black/Blue wire may need to be cut from the fuse end and bypassed. This means joining a new wire at the fuse end and running it to the closest point to the fan. Have a good look at the wiring diagram. Good luck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted April 15, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted April 15, 2023 3 hours ago, WDIV said: Red Line 80205 Engine Coolant Additive Supercool with Waterwetter" Do you need antifreeze protection where you live? Specs for 80205 state this! "SuperCool does not contain antifreeze and its freezing point is 32 degrees F, or 0 degrees C" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer WDIV Posted April 15, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 15, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Grum said: The 20amp Fan Fuse blowing randomly (when engine doesn't need fan cooling) throws a whole new light on the subject. Â You have a short to Ground somewhere between the Fuse and the Fan Motor. This is a Black/Blue wire. When you had the fan off the bike did you closely examine the wiring of the fan? Did any of the wiring look like is was crushed or damaged? Did you try running the fan while it was out of the bike? Â Without knowing exactly how the previous owner wired whatever, if in doubt remove it and re assess the situation, see if you no longer blow the fuse. Your headlight/voltmeter wiring mod looks good. Note that with the distance from the battery, interconnections, the relay etc. you will introduce a small amount of voltage drop, meaning, the actual battery voltage will be seen as slightly less on the voltmeter, compare a reading directly at the battery to what your new meter reads, you'll see what I mean. Â Ultimately if you're confident the fan is good and you randomly continue to blow the fuse but you cannot find where the short is then the Black/Blue wire may need to be cut from the fuse end and bypassed. This means joining a new wire at the fuse end and running it to the closest point to the fan. Have a good look at the wiring diagram. Good luck. This is what I'm afraid of. I just took the bike out, pulled over at 220 and sure enough, popped. Threw another one in, fan immediately kicks on. I'm thinking a short in the wire. Boooo. Â Â Â 51 minutes ago, Grum said: Do you need antifreeze protection where you live? Specs for 80205 state this! "SuperCool does not contain antifreeze and its freezing point is 32 degrees F, or 0 degrees C" Oh, I absolutely do. Good catch! Thank you! Coolanol it is! Edited April 15, 2023 by WDIV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted April 16, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted April 16, 2023 21 minutes ago, WDIV said: This is what I'm afraid of. I just took the bike out, pulled over at 220 and sure enough, popped. Threw another one in, fan immediately kicks on. I'm thinking a short in the wire. Boooo Ok so it might be that with the vibration of riding triggers your intermittent short. Back in the garage with Ignition to On see if you can flex/jiggle the wiring from the fuse area to the fan area, see if this blows the fuse. Thoroughly visually check the wiring harness for any abrasions, cuts, damaged insulation or exposed wire that could rub against the frame causing the fuse blow. Would be best to do this with a voltmeter monitoring the fan voltage being the Black/Blue wire, keeping an eye on this as you move around the harness, sudden loss of 12v means fuse has blown. Good luck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer WDIV Posted April 16, 2023 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 16, 2023 20 minutes ago, Grum said: Ok so it might be that with the vibration of riding triggers your intermittent short. Back in the garage with Ignition to On see if you can flex/jiggle the wiring from the fuse area to the fan area, see if this blows the fuse. Thoroughly visually check the wiring harness for any abrasions, cuts, damaged insulation or exposed wire that could rub against the frame causing the fuse blow. Would be best to do this with a voltmeter monitoring the fan voltage being the Black/Blue wire, keeping an eye on this as you move around the harness, sudden loss of 12v means fuse has blown. Good luck I just did the visual inspection and shook the piss out of my headstock (with the key on and a jumper to ground on the thermistor plug) trying to get it to pop. I guess next is to throw the volt meter on and let that watch it for me. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer DannoXYZ Posted April 16, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted April 16, 2023 7 minutes ago, WDIV said: I just did the visual inspection and shook the piss out of my headstock (with the key on and a jumper to ground on the thermistor plug) trying to get it to pop. I guess next is to throw the volt meter on and let that watch it for me. Â No need to watch. First measure resistance to chassis-ground of fan power-wire. Â If it's not OL/infinite ohms, you've got short on that wire. Ends up drawing more power than just fan when termo-switch closes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted April 16, 2023 Member Contributer Share Posted April 16, 2023 4 hours ago, DannoXYZ said: No need to watch. First measure resistance to chassis-ground of fan power-wire. Â If it's not OL/infinite ohms, you've got short on that wire. Ends up drawing more power than just fan when termo-switch closes. Yep, more than one way to skin a cat! So if you have a multimeter set it to Buzzer mode or lowest ohms range. Clip the black lead to battery negative or known good ground. Red lead probing the fan Black/Blue power wire. Ignition to OFF. Move around the wiring seeing if you can induce the short ie. hearing the Buzzer or ohms drop to very low. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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