RC51 front end swap

[Guest whylee]

If anyone is interested I have 2 sets of RC51 forks and one 954 lower triple. I am still trying to locate a 2000-2001 RC lower triple and would even be interested in a trade.

[Guest VFR2X]

If at all possible I'd like to read a ride report please, as I'm really interested in the brake part? have a 954 I ride out on every now and then, god love those brakes, never thought the forks would swap out Hmmm?????? good info, just would like more info, Please. Does a 4th gen have the same possibilities? which head berings are used along with which head stem? again all very interesting,.

[SAFE-T]

I posted some stuff a while back, but here are my most recent thoughts:

Brakes

Initial engagement is more firm, and you definitely have more brake at your disposal. Not surprising, really since you now have more pistons working for you when you use just the front brake, on a larger braking surface.

RC51 and GSXR forks have 320mm rotors. CBR929/954 forks have 330mm rotors. The RC51 wheel will accept the CBR wheel bearings and rotors, so you can use a five spoke front wheel in place of the CBR three spoke. 320mm Ducati rotors also have the same bolt pattern as the VFR's stock wheel, although I am not sure of the carrier offset and whether you could match it up.

If anyone cares to measure the span across their rotors on their stock wheel, I do have a set of Ducati rotors I can place against a stock VFR wheel to check for comparison. I would need a measure from outside edge to outside edge.

Forks

The RC51 fork has a .959 kg/mm fork spring, compared to the VFR's spring rate of .740 kg/mm. Most suspension tuners seem to recommend a replacement spring in the .90 to 1.0 range for the VFR anyway so the ride will be firmer, but in a way that is beneficial for more spirited riding. I have not found the ride to be harsh in anyway.

Triple Clamps

The RC51 SP-1 lower and CBR929/954 upper is a great combo that I stumbled across by experimentation while I was looking for a CBR lower triple. If my poor memory serves me correctly, I used an RC51 lower bearing and the VFR's upper bearing in my '99. Check veefer800canuck's thread on his conversion.

If you use RC51 forks in these triples set up the same height as your VFR forks were, you will end up with about 5mm more trail. Busy Little Shop has said I could balance this out by increasing my rear ride height.

As I understand it, increased trail simply increases the length of the bike. The slightly increased trail is supposed to make the bike feel more stable at speed, but tend to let the bike go wide exiting turns. I do feel the bike takes some effort to hold a line, but doubt it is hugely different from the stock setup. An experienced racer might be able to notice the difference, but it feels marginal to me.

One of the benefits of the different offset of the RC/CBR triples is that it does allow you to use a slightly shorter fork since the triple clamp offset increases trail and counteracts the decreased rake of a shorter fork, such that stability is maintained. Swiffer put shorter GSXR forks on his 4th generation VFR750 and has taken it on the track without incident several times, and there are numerous examples of 3rd, 4th and 5th generation VFR's with 929/954 forks on them.

Larry (Busy Little Shop) has access to a program that computes rake/trail for different fork/triple/bike setups - perhaps if you ask nice he could give you some feedback on whatever combination you were thinking of using. His input was extremely useful to me.

[Guest vfrmonkey]

I have a set of standard offset Duc rotors that I will try to match up un the VFR wheel; I'll let the group know how it goes...

[SAFE-T]

I test-fit a set of CBR1100XX rotors on my Marchesini's and the bolt pattern matched. The same XX rotors also fit on the VFR, although I later found out they were 300mm, not 296mm.

Anyways, if the same rotor fit on both wheels, by logical deduction Duc rotors will fit on VFR wheels. I expect you will have to make some adjustment for carrier offset, but this is a question I have been hoping to have answered for a while now. Thanks for trying it !

[Veefer800Canuck]

I test-fit a set of CBR1100XX rotors on my Marchesini's and the bolt pattern matched. The same XX rotors also fit on the VFR, although I later found out they were 300mm, not 296mm.

Anyways, if the same rotor fit on both wheels, by logical deduction Duc rotors will fit on VFR wheels. I expect you will have to make some adjustment for carrier offset, but this is a question I have been hoping to have answered for a while now. Thanks for trying it !

Well, if Duc rotors direct fit on an RC51 wheel, then they will NOT fit a VFR wheel.

My RC51 rotors have a much larger bolt circle than VFR rotors.

I had both side-by-side, and the I.D. of the RC51 rotor carriers simply dwarfs the VFR rotor carriers I.D. Bolt spacing, etc is bigger.

Ergo, so will a Ducati's be. (see line 1)

On another note, 929/954 rotors will fit an RC51 wheel, I tried it. They are 330mm Vs 320mm, so you'd have to have custom caliper brackets made for a '51 set of forks to space the calipers 5mm further from the axle centerline.

[SAFE-T]

Well, if Duc rotors direct fit on an RC51 wheel, then they will NOT fit a VFR wheel.

Duc rotors will not fit on an RC51 wheel, but they will on a VFR wheel.

[Veefer800Canuck]

Duc rotors will not fit on an RC51 wheel, but they will on a VFR wheel.

Oh, I'm sorry Rick, I keep forgetting that your Marchesini's are for a Duc, not a '51.

I'll crawl back in my hole now........ :goofy:

[Guest Swiffer]

Duc rotors will not fit on an RC51 wheel, but they will on a VFR wheel.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My VFR rotors (94) didn't fit my Duc marchesinis.

If I remember correctly the center hole was too small

[SAFE-T]

My VFR rotors (94) didn't fit my Duc marchesinis.

If I remember correctly the center hole was too small

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

'98-'01 should be compatible.

[Guest Dragonfly]

Hi everyone, I'm a newbie here and have to say what a fantastic forum you guys, and gals have going here.

First, let me congratulate SAFE-T, swiffer, veefer800canuck and everyone who has done the front end mods, I bow before your excellence, :thumbsup:

I've been a sponser on the Honda VFR Club here in England for a while now, and they are a great bunch. However, they don't have the desire or passion to modify their VFRs as you have done.

I read a comment from Blue Viffer I think, who mentioned a thread on converting the four stud rear wheel fixing to a single stem type a la rc30/duc 996 etc, but have drawn a blank trying to find any posts relating to this. If someone can point me in the right direction I would be mucho thankful.

As its coming up to the good weather riding seasons over here, I intend to gather all the bits I'm gonna need to do a front end swap on my own VFR.

I've never really liked the linked brake set up, and feel it was a bit of a waste of R&D, but the big H do like to flex their techno muscles if you know what I mean. If Honda had fitted USDs, 'normal' brakes and spent a bit more money on the electrics, dodgy reg/recs etc, the VFR would have been the ultimate.

Instead it's just 99% perfect. :D

Edited March 9, 2006 by Dragonfly

[Guest Salty42]

Ask Safe-T about the Single-Nut Rear Hub Conversion KIT ... B)

[SAFE-T]

Ask Safe-T about the Single-Nut Rear Hub Conversion KIT ... B)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the plug....

border='0' alt='user posted image' />

This is the modified spindle assembly for the rear wheel

border='0' alt='user posted image' />

Modified a Ducati rear brake stay and the VFR torque rod

border='0' alt='user posted image' />

Put my two children's names on the bike

[SEBSPEED]

Thanks for the plug....

Right, now where to get one? B)

[SAFE-T]

Right, now where to get one?  B)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I make them.

[Guest Dragonfly]

Thanks for the info SAFE-T, the pics of your own conversion look superb! Food for thought indeed!

So I'm gonna have to make a few decisions over the next couple of months or so. As I mentioned in my pm to you, I have a complete rear end from a Triumph 955 Daytona including the 3 spoke wheel.

As I intend to do the front USD mod aswell this will mean I'm gonna need a 3 spoke front wheel. This may make things easier? as I could use a complete R1 front end.

It would mean I'm not gonna have the probs of discs (rotors), caliper alignment . Plus the issue of wheel bearing/spindle match up when using say, Ducati wheel, RC51 forks, or the various other combinations mentioned in this thread.

However, I am watching an Epay item at the moment. A gorgeous pair of 5 spoke Marchesinis, with rotors. So if the price is right maybe....?

Unfortunately I'm not an engineer, and don't have access to a machine shop. I did work as a auto painter finisher/ mechanic for a while many moons ago, so I'll do some work myself.

But to ensure the job gets done to a high standard, I'll get Harris Performance to do the trickier stuff. That will include a set of their lovely adjustable yokes (triple trees), and they have quoted me just ?200 to convert the rear hub, bargain huh!?!

[Baileyrock]

Vince, can you reload your pics for this thread?

Thanks

BR

[mello dude]

Great info!

MD

[kgsmotorcycles]

Ask Safe-T about the Single-Nut Rear Hub Conversion KIT ... B)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the plug....

border='0' alt='user posted image' />

This is the modified spindle assembly for the rear wheel

border='0' alt='user posted image' />

Modified a Ducati rear brake stay and the VFR torque rod

border='0' alt='user posted image' />

Put my two children's names on the bike

Can i ask what did you use for the lock up arm? And did you make the hole to hold the other end of said arm into vfr750f swing arm?

My set up is looking similar to yours at the moment, but sold me ducati parts for rc30 hub and brake parts wich fit real nice, no mods.

Now grafting on an AP brake caliper underneath using a bracket onto the rc brake stay. Just wants locking up now. Was thinking of locking up to top hole on swing arm already left by now removed brake parts. But its a long way away and i dont fancy a long bit of stainless attatched by two m8 ball/rose joints. Your rod here looks spot on but im thinking i will need to do a few mods to complete???

Pics to follow of where im at if interested. Thanks for your ideas, Kev.

[Veefer800Canuck]

If I might answer for Rick, that's a VFR800 swingarm, hole is already there.

And bu the look of the brake stay arm, I'm going to say its a modified OEM brake stay arm for the VFR800.

[kgsmotorcycles]

If I might answer for Rick, that's a VFR800 swingarm, hole is already there.

And bu the look of the brake stay arm, I'm going to say its a modified OEM brake stay arm for the VFR800.

THANKS Veefer800canuck.

ok I get the picture. Now i remember the two swingarms are different. Ive not really progressed to vfr 1998+ (rc46/45 measurements etc)

So im going back to the drawing board and looks as though im going to have to stick with plan A for now unless anyone else has any suggestions on locking up a 94-97 fourth gen.? The rc30 hub and brake stay unit slips in to fourth gen. swing arm no worries. So lock arm will go from bottom upward, similar to below example ive googled at some point in past.

Here is an example of what im going to have to replicate, but on my '97 swing arm, so top lockup part will be on top of '97 swing arm not middle as here.

harris rear with rc30 hub Fair bit of work here, not mine, but nice to look at

Btw. Not looking to hijack any thread here. My CBR954 front end conversion was the sole reason for me looking back at this thread.

After the success of my last CBR '98-'99 Fireblade front end conversion, am hoping to use my 929/954 yokes and usd forks i have.

But im just wondering on which bearings i can get away with using, if at all.

Hoping to use CBR929 bottom bearings and vfr top? not sure if anyone else successfully completed similar conversion. Think may have read on here might i get clearence issuses with 929 bottom yoke and radiator?

Hopefully aiming for a full clip-on handelbars and race fairing affair. Either ducati which i have in garage, ready to go, or might have to resort to rc30/45 race rep. stuff)

Rc carbs and bigbore a long way off. Get this effort rolling equil or better than my last VFR conversion, which worked amazingly!

[Blue Viffer]

Vince, can you reload your pics for this thread?

Thanks

BR

BR, just saw this request this AM will check tonight or tomorrow night to see if I still have those pics. Think so but with moving to a far distant land where you can only ride 6 months out of the year things get misplaced. Now where is that bike.

vince

[Veefer800Canuck]

Here is an example of what im going to have to replicate, but on my '97 swing arm, so top lockup part will be on top of '97 swing arm not middle as here.

harris rear with rc30 hub

I must need professional help. :laugh:

While I was reading your post, I scrolled down and the pic was visible, but not the text below it........

So I says to myself, I says, "Hey, that doesn't look like a VFR swingarm, I think it's a Harris bit." :laugh:

[Beck]

If I might answer for Rick, that's a VFR800 swingarm, hole is already there.

And bu the look of the brake stay arm, I'm going to say its a modified OEM brake stay arm for the VFR800.

THANKS Veefer800canuck.

ok I get the picture. Now i remember the two swingarms are different. Ive not really progressed to vfr 1998+ (rc46/45 measurements etc)

So im going back to the drawing board and looks as though im going to have to stick with plan A for now unless anyone else has any suggestions on locking up a 94-97 fourth gen.? The rc30 hub and brake stay unit slips in to fourth gen. swing arm no worries. So lock arm will go from bottom upward, similar to below example ive googled at some point in past.

Here is an example of what im going to have to replicate, but on my '97 swing arm, so top lockup part will be on top of '97 swing arm not middle as here.

Funny, I thought the RC30 rear axle was also hollow all the way through with a big hole like our VFRs. That almost looks exactly how my Hawk GT647 rear hub setup looked, with the castellated nut and lock pin. My memory of the 30's details must be fading with time...

Beck

95 VFR

[Blue Viffer]

Vince, can you reload your pics for this thread?

Thanks

BR

BR, just saw this request this AM will check tonight or tomorrow night to see if I still have those pics. Think so but with moving to a far distant land where you can only ride 6 months out of the year things get misplaced. Now where is that bike.

vince

Finished reloading pics. Just went through and re-read thread and found that some questions I did not answer after posting. I was in the middle of a move from SoCal to Oregon and did not shine you on. If you have any questions that you might want me to answer please ask.

vince