Better Bulbs

[Lint]

I know this subject has been discussed already, and I know that Sylvania and Osram, Phillips, etc make brighter halogen bulbs already. Are there any LED or HID bulbs that work? I see the new cars and bikes with vastly superior lighting, but I have heard of people having trouble with LED. Am I asking to much of my 17 year old bike?

[Skids]

No, you're not, but the problem lies in how the bulb transmits the light when compared to an incandescent bulb as the difference in the position of the origin of the light will have an effect on the beam pattern. If enhancing your bikes visibility is all you want, then most LED or HiD-Xenon bulbs should be fine but if you want improved night illumination you may struggle.

 

I fitted LEDs to my 5th Gen. It wasn't difficult and the beam pattern came out ok but not good enough. The bikes visibility was vastly improved, albeit I only know this from anecdotal evidence I observed whilst riding with the LEDs. I rarely ride at night so I wasn't too bothered but the 5th Gen was retired not long after anyway.

 

I've since fitted HiD-Xenon bulbs to my 6th Gen and the beam pattern is pretty good. Along with improved visibility of the bike for drivers, I am very happy with the result.

 

HiD-Xenons work on the UK 6th Gen because it has 4 x H7 single filament bulbs (2 low beam and 2 high beam) as standard - I believe the US has H4s....I may be wrong? The problem lies in the rise time to full brightness of HiD-Xenon bulbs which can be measured in seconds. Now this is fine for low beam, which is mandatory in the UK for all new bikes since 2006, since the beam will be at full brightness by the time you hit 2nd gear but it doesn't work for high beam because of the several seconds of rise time which means either the flash to the oncoming driver wont be very bright or worse, just when you need the high beam down a dark country road, it takes too long. For this reason, I have standard incandescent H7 bulbs in the high beam of my 6th Gen.

 

Same for my 7th Gen...HiD-Xenon low beam and incandescent for high beam.

 

There are several old threads on here that are worth reading, despite their length and technology moves so quickly these days, all the above may be out of date by now and there may be a simple off the shelf solution. Best of luck and let us know how you get on.

[JZH]

The only lighting "upgrade" I would consider doing on my bikes would be a full Bi-Xenon projector retrofit.  These days, good quality xenon projectors are available that mount into OEM reflectors through the H4 opening and make conversions much simpler than when I was experimenting with HID conversions 7-8 years ago.  The "bi-xenon" feature means that the HID burner is always activated, with the only difference between high and low beam being a solenoid-actuated shroud, so there is effectively no high beam delay with this kind of set-up.  I recently purchased a pair of Morimoto Mini D2S 3.0 RHD projectors from The Retrofit Source in the 'States to use in my 5th gen.  Haven't installed them, yet, but they look the part!

 

Ciao,

[GleninAus]

Just a few point on whats already been raised and a few ideas.

1. The vfr800 has IMHO about the best standard headlight that's based on a dual halogen H4 setup I've ever ridden with.  Rated at factory 45 watts, with a minor modification to the socket and a relay for Hi Beam why not run a 55/100 H4 best quality bulb you can find. I'd like to try this but is there a possible issue with heat? 

 

2. H4 HID,  there is 1 big problem and a delay issue brought up by "Skid" is not a problem with the H4 Hi/Lo bulb.  The big problem is with where the HID strikes its arc and the size of that arc in how the reflectors handle dispersion of light. The reflectors are focused on where the H4 filament is and a HID bulb is longer with a broader spread of light, effectively making a mess of what the reflector was supposed to do. yeah, its brighter but the light is everywhere, not really improving the distance if you pick the wrong light frequency range but great for Bat spotting and you become a menace on the road. On the good side of H4 Hi/Lo  is that its one bulb for hi beam and lo beam. There is a relay attached to shutter that covers part of the bulb. So instant high beam.

 

3. I must say that I haven't seen anything in LED worth retrofitting but my general opinion of LED bulbs are they appear to be really bright but don't light much area up. I've tried a variety of LED tail light combos on different bikes and still think a standard bulb with reflector is best.

 

4. Jzh mentioned a projector option. This is about the only way HID light is controlled properly.  I also have a Ducati ST4 with a weird pair of headlights. The Hi Beam light is a conventional reflector  with a lens in front but the Lo Beam is weird. Its got a fish eye lens and a bit of a tunnel and a proper baffle.  Really crappy light though that needed to be fixed. Solution was 55 watt HID in both.  The fish eye low beam has a light cut off that shows perfect dark to light transition. The test is if you stand in front of the bike out of the beam, Its as good as the original light but about a 100 times brighter when you move between dark and blinding area. near perfect for considerate road use. On the other hand hi beam is light everywhere ( after it warms up) for night time sight seeing but its really dim compared to the lo beam.

[fonque]

After considering all of the H4 retrofit HID kits, I decided to fit morimoto mini H1 projectors to my bike. They were really easy to install. They are about as close to a bolt on installation as you can get with projectors. 

The light output and beam pattern is FAR superior to the stock H4 derivatives or the H4 hid bulbs.

 

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index.php?/topic/82540-headlight-upgrade-projector-install/

 

Heres the new beam pattern:

 

 

[hellindustries]

I went from stock bulbs to OSRAM Nightbreakers, and it's a pretty good improvement. Whiter light, longer throw and a wider spread. Pretty good upgrade for £15.

[Lint]

Which bulb does the 5th Gen use? I'm still learning about the bike, coming from a 6th Gen.

[hellindustries]

1 hour ago, Lint said:

Which bulb does the 5th Gen use? I'm still learning about the bike, coming from a 6th Gen.

 

 

A H4 type.

[Lint]

Thank you!

[fonque]

Its not an h4, our VFRs use PX43t, its similar to an h4 but has a different base and runs at 45watts in high and low.

To make an h4 fit, you have one of 3 options, buy an adapter ring, bend up one tab of the bulb, or dremel the housing to fit h4 tabs.

Personally i dont like any of those options.

 

[JZH]

If you want to be even more correct......the Honda 45/45w OEM bulb does not appear to conform to either the P43t or the PX43t international standards, as both of those bases have bottom tabs located on 45-degree angles (the main difference being the width of the top tab).  The Honda OEM bulb has bottom tabs located on 65-degree angles.  I did manage to find standards for the PY43d and PZ43t, which are also H4-type bulbs (neither of which I'd ever heard of), but with 55-degree angles for the bottom tabs.  It may be that the infamous Honda OEM bulb standard is located buried within one of the amendments to the IEC standard governing bulb bases, IEC 60061-1, but I couldn't find it.

 

There may be an international standard for the Honda OEM bulb, but it could simply be Honda's own design.  I had been thinking that there, at least, had to be a US regulation covering it, but then I remembered that "true" H4s have always been legal in the USA for motorcycle use (while illegal for automobile use), specifically because US headlight regs did not cover motorcycles!  I remember hearing that there were once regulations relating to the minimum distance between headlamps, or perhaps just a difference of opinion regarding the definition of "headlamp", and that is why Honda chose to use 45/45w bulbs on US-market vehicles in the first place, but how that allowed them to use lower wattage bulbs instead of regular H4s I don't know. 

 

FYI, the "43" in all of the base designations refers to the outside diameter of the base (excluding the tabs), and "P" probably refers to the term "prefocus", which indicates that the headlamp unit is not supposed to have to be "re-focused" when just the bulb is replaced.  "H4" is, I think, a reference to the bulb, rather than the base, so all of the bulbs referred to above would be considered "H4"...

 

It took me forever to find this online copy of the IEC standard for bulb bases (thank you, Chinese people!), and slightly less time to find an online copy of the UNECE Regulation 37 governing filament lamps in automotive lighting, so I have linked to these documents here for future use.  (Okay, for my future use.  I'm sure everyone else has long ago stopped reading!)

 

Ciao,

[fonque]

thanks for the info, and much respect for digging that deep! So from what you found honda uses an H4 bulb and everything around it is non-standard?

 

[CandyRedRC46]

Bixenon Projector Retrofit > PIAA > misc Sylvania/Osram/Phillips etc halogen bulbs > oem > misc squid lighting/ led / hid in factory housing

[JZH]

21 hours ago, fonque said:

thanks for the info, and much respect for digging that deep! So from what you found honda uses an H4 bulb and everything around it is non-standard?

 

Did I say that?    No, I would say that all of the p43 based halogen bulbs with the same dual-filament design in the glass part are essentially "H4" bulbs with different bases.  But then I've also seen the designation "HS1" used for some of them, so really I don't know! 

 

Ciao,

[hellindustries]

On 23/05/2016 at 1:17 AM, fonque said:

Its not an h4, our VFRs use PX43t, its similar to an h4 but has a different base and runs at 45watts in high and low.

To make an h4 fit, you have one of 3 options, buy an adapter ring, bend up one tab of the bulb, or dremel the housing to fit h4 tabs.

Personally i dont like any of those options.

 

I got the Nightbreakers. H4. Fit with zero modification.

[JZH]

He was referring to the US-spec bikes.  European-spec bikes use regular H4s.

 

Ciao,

[keef]

I'm using an LED H4 globe in my mt09. 

Its brilliant. 

 

High/low, good cutoff, no glare for oncoming traffic.

[Mohawk]

I added LED headlight bulbs to mine, there's a thread on here somewhere. Been in for 3+ years & 5000+ miles with no issues. I have a spare set as I used them in my last car too. PM me if you are interested in a good deal, I'm in the UK so shipping will cost a little more. 

 

The ones I have fitted are dual LED so when you select high beam, the low stays on & the additional High beam LED lights u ! So lots of light output. 

 

[hellindustries]

39 minutes ago, Saoirse32 said:

Has anyone any 'bright' ideas of where to fit led spots on a 5th gen without looking ridiculous, I'd like a bit better lighting for dark country roads.

Ideas? Yes. But without looking ridiculous? Probably not.

Depending how far you want to go:

• Maybe clamp them to crash protectors? (i see a fair few touring bikes with this set-up)
• Maybe some kind of bracket fitted off the mirror plates? (to keep them mounted high, and just in front and below the mirror mount point out to the sides)
• Maybe inside the front wheel arch (depending on light size, as it may catch)
• Maybe do a nice job of swapping out the front indicators (complete with wire mesh to retain the stock shape) for LED night lights, then getting some indicator mirrors or something?

[JZH]

I've experimented with many lighting mounts over the years, most of which I've discarded in favour of just not riding fast at night!  The mirror mounts are pretty strong, though.  These stainless steel mounts were used for some aftermarket HIDs, but was designed to hold PIAA 910 pencil-beam spots (which are massively heavy).

 

 

IThe bike is not an RC46, but those are RC46 mirrors!

 

Ciao,

[Skids]

On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 1:10 PM, Mohawk said:

I added LED headlight bulbs to mine, there's a thread on here somewhere. Been in for 3+ years & 5000+ miles with no issues. I have a spare set as I used them in my last car too. PM me if you are interested in a good deal, I'm in the UK so shipping will cost a little more. 

 

The ones I have fitted are dual LED so when you select high beam, the low stays on & the additional High beam LED lights u ! So lots of light output. 

 

 

Mo, do you have a link? I'd be interested in a set of LED H7s for my Vtec if they maintain a decent beam pattern.

 

The HiD-Xenon low beams are excellent but I've had to retain incandescent bulbs in the hi beams because of the poor rise time of the HiDs making them unsuited to hi beam use.

 

Cheers.

[Mohawk]

You could always try 100w H7's !  I put thos ein my car as the BMW F30/31 without HiD has a blind spot between low & high beam, so it runs both beams on high, but there is a black or unilluminated area just between the beams & the headlight units can not be independantly adjusted :(  the replacement bulbs are brighter, illuminate further & fill the black void, so I no longer think there's a black thing at the edge of vision in the winter now !

[Skids]

2 hours ago, Mohawk said:

You could always try 100w H7's !  I put thos ein my car as the BMW F30/31 without HiD has a blind spot between low & high beam, so it runs both beams on high, but there is a black or unilluminated area just between the beams & the headlight units can not be independantly adjusted :(  the replacement bulbs are brighter, illuminate further & fill the black void, so I no longer think there's a black thing at the edge of vision in the winter now !

 

Thanks but I'd like the hi beam to be the same colour as the low beam (5000k pure white) as long as they maintain a decent night illumination pattern.