New Bike, New Problems - Bike Cutting Out, Need Help!

[fishyfashionpants]

Good day all.

I recently upgraded from my old faithful, 1998 Suzuki RF400 to a 2005 VFR 800, or well it actually was yesterday. The second I saw the bike up for sale I knew that I had to have it...but that is where my story filled with rainbows and sunshine ends.

While riding home from purchasing the bike, while in a bit of traffic she died on me a few times. When the bike did cut out, I turned off the kill switch waited a few seconds turned it back on, waited for the FI light to go off, then she fired right up again. After about 3 or 4 times of cutting out I managed to get onto the freeway, then the bike rode beautifully with no issues what so ever, until I got into town again, in traffic and she cut out a few of times more until I got home.

What I would like to ask is where do I start looking to identify what the possible issue could be? I dont mind getting my hands dirty just as long as I know where to start looking and what I can do to resolve the issue. Another point that I should mention is that one or two of the times that the bike cut out when I turned off the kill switch and turned it back on again, the FI light flashed a couple of times, then I turned the kill switch off then on again, FI light went on then off and I started the bike, dont know if this info would assist in problem solving

Hope I will here back from you all soon

[Dutchy]

Smells like a fishy battery to me..................

do a goofle search on "vfrdiscussion+the drill" and take it from there; I assume you have a multimeter...

Inspect your wiring+connectors from alternator to voltage regulator to main fuse and battery.

[Knight]

Hi Fishy! That is a beautiful Blue Beauty you have there.

Unknowing your total experience I am going to brain dump for the purpose of covering all bases.

Regarding electrical, what Dutchy said. Even once you find the problem, be thorough in inspecting everything else, not only in the electrical "drill" but all other components.

The bike is now the age where all switches and connections are corroded. Have a can of electrical contact cleaner like DeoxIT on hand to clean each connection and switch you come across. When you are done, you will have assured the greatest reliability by proactively refreshing these connections.

One hint you gave was city riding vs freeway. If it dies while braking or accelerating that could point toward a safety switch such as on the sidestand. If you accelerate and the stand flops due to weak springs, that could kill it, but it would start up when the stand springs back up. I do not want to lead you as this is just one out of many issues, but just want to get you thinking how sometimes these are not random events but there may be an action and the reaction to it is that the bike dies.

Another big one is brakes. You need to spin the wheels and look for two spins. You could discover they are binding. Old fluid or neglected brakes typically involve running lots of new fluid through all of the bleed valves, including the proportioning valve. If calipers are binding, open and clean the seals, replace if there is any tear or wear, replace any pistons which have damage, and maybe new pads.

Another one is the thermostat. When I complained about a bike not heating up thoroughly, one of these guys told me to start the bike cold and put my hand on the radiator. If it heats up linearly with the bike, the thermostat is stuck open. The radiator should remain cool, then jump to unbearably hot all at once when the bike is at operating temperature.

Special to these bikes: Tune the starter valves. This requires a 4-column vacuum gauge or 4 individual gauges. Your throttle response depends on the cylinder vacuum being balanced. There are posts here detailing it and also an excellent YouTube video.

Good luck.

[luigi]

Hi Fishy.

I have a 5th gen VFR (not the Vtec) but i suggest you to download in a site section the workshop manual where is explained how to undestand the FI light blinking meanings about malfunctions.

For the engine that turn off in traffic maybe is the voltage regulator, not properly in health, suffering overheating.

Ciao, Luigi.

[Terry]

Turn the idle up. Remove rubber bung (if its still there ) through the right frame rail, stick a philips head screwdriver in there and tweak the idle screw clockwise to raise the idle to 1300-1400rpm. My bike hates a low idle speed and will stall easily otherwise.

If that does not solve things then you need to start to diagnose then FI system; if you have a flashing FI light, the sequence (think Morse code long/short flashes) can be read to identify which component is unwell.

[Knight]

Turn the idle up. Remove rubber bung (if its still there ) through the right frame rail, stick a philips head screwdriver in there and tweak the idle screw clockwise to raise the idle to 1300-1400rpm. My bike hates a low idle speed and will stall easily otherwise.

If that does not solve things then you need to start to diagnose then FI system; if you have a flashing FI light, the sequence (think Morse code long/short flashes) can be read to identify which component is unwell.

Terry, have you tuned your starter valves?

I think his reference to the FI light is that he waits for it to go out/prime the pump, before restarting, not that the FI is flashing an error code.

[Auspanglish]

With electrical issues always helps to start with easy bits first, then move on to complex.

1. Battery. Sounds like it's holding up OK charge and power wise... as it managed to turn the motor over numerous times. Still after having done all that hard work a good proper charge on a trickle charger will surely do it some good. You should hook the battery up to a trickle charger whenever your not using the bike for more than 5-7 days at a time.

Nonetheless, first check to see if the leads are loose on the battery terminals, they need to be nice and tight. Don't use a screwdriver to tighten them, even though the bolts have Philip's grooves, use a proper wrench as they also have a hex head... 10 mm I believe.

2. MFI. This is the flashing code your FI light conveniently threw up for you but whose usefulness you were unfortunately unaware of. It provides info on parts of the fuel injection system that may have suffered from some failure, either permanent or intermittent.

The code consists of a series of long and/or short flashes, then a pause and if there's more then one error/failure another series of long and/or short flashes, a pause and so on. When there are no more errors it will repeat the same ones over again "ad libitum".

One long flash (1 second) = 10 points.

One short flash (<0.5 seconds) = 1 point.

Add them up (up to the pause) and then check the number on the chart in the Workshop Manual, you can download it on this forum in the download section. There's also a tutorial on here in the how-to or maintenance section which explains how you can bring those codes up at will. This way you may be able to go straight to the needle in the haystack.

3. Known weak points in the wiring harness. There was a Honda recall on all 6th gens to have the front subharness replaced and any other parts of the harness and recharging system that may have suffered as a consequence. Check w dealer whether yours has had that done.

4. Check the usual suspects of the wiring harness. These are a few connectors known to fail and burn out. I believe there's a thread detailing all of these somewhere in the forum:

- Check out the engine kill switch, big red switch on RHS handlebar. It often fails due to grime and/or corrosion. Open it up a and give it a good blast of contact cleaner or WD40.

- Check all wires and connectors and fuse holders and relays in the battery bay under the seat. Remove rubber coverings and inspect for burnt components and signs of overheating. Replace whatever is untoward looking. There is a tutorial on here somewhere explaining improvements that can be made.

- Big blue connector on LHS, just forwards of the LHS radiator. Check where the green ground wire goes through this connector first, but check them all anyway. If it's burnt out and you can't get Honda to fix it under the recall, just solder-splice a 12 gauge wire to bypass the connector while also running the wire w a ring terminal to the closest spot on the chassis.

While your there check the big grey connector next to the blue one just in case.

- The famous "Eurethra" yellow or orange ground wire bus connector on the front harness. It will be yellow for 02-05 and in the front harness proper, wrapped in black electrical tape in the left hand grouping which runs along the LHS arm of the metal bracket which supports all the fairing and optics. It has approx 10 or 12 thin-gauge green ground wires running through it but fails tremendously in providing continuity.

On 06-10 models this connector is orange and located in a more convenient spot inside the rubber protector together with the blue and grey connectors mentioned earlier. I think Honda relocated it to improve access but continue using the same crappy connector as this generates work for dealers.

You will have to remove the LHS fairing for the blue, grey and orange connectors and if it's an 02-05, the front nose fairing as well for the yellow one.

Common practice is to cut this fecker out and solder the lot with a soldering blowtorch... A regular soldering iron won't do it as it's a large mass of wires. You could come up w other valid solutions so long as all wires lead to Rome (which happen to be the green wires that run through the big blue and grey connectors mentioned earlier).

- Big white connector on RHS on top ridge of the RHS radiator. This has three yellow wires running through it from the alternator to the regulator/rectifier. Often burns out due to corrosion or bad fit. Cut it out and use a good quality ceramic screw-down type connector rated for high current and voltage, or hard-wire it (solder the wires directly).

It would be useful if you had a multimeter and checked continuity of wires running through these connectors and switches.

If all the above checks out good, check out the wiring leaving the ignition at the top triple/yoke, where the key goes... seen more than one case of broken wiring leaving circuit open when turning the handlebars.

If your bike has HISS (doubt it), check the wiring.

Otherwise at the worse it could be stator starting to fry. Check the tutorials out on here. Rarely does the R/R fail on 6th gens but... Suspect stator first, then R/R

[spud786]

Battery and stator sound okay(for now) or you wouldn't have gotten it started multiple times, but check all wiring under the seat, and the fuse slots, then pull the side panels and disconnect all connectors and inspect , wd40 works fine. to clean out and prevent, for anything that's not obviously damaged.

The pulse generator is totally separate on the vfr stator, so stator can be completely dead, and as long as you have battery output vfr will run fine.

[Auspanglish]

Turn the idle up. Remove rubber bung (if its still there ) through the right frame rail, stick a philips head screwdriver in there and tweak the idle screw clockwise to raise the idle to 1300-1400rpm. My bike hates a low idle speed and will stall easily otherwise.

If that does not solve things then you need to start to diagnose then FI system; if you have a flashing FI light, the sequence (think Morse code long/short flashes) can be read to identify which component is unwell.

It's a 6th gen. No rubber bung and no hole in the rhs main rail or arm of the frame.

The 6th gen's idle adjuster is a small knob on the end of a cable which is held by a wire bracket (of it hasn't broken as they usually do) and pokes it's head out from behind the RHS fairing around where the oil filler cap is.

But it would not be covering the bases just to hike up the idle as the 6th gen has many electrical gremlins, although it might just be that. Idle speed should be 1200-1300 rpm.

Turn the idle up. Remove rubber bung (if its still there ) through the right frame rail, stick a philips head screwdriver in there and tweak the idle screw clockwise to raise the idle to 1300-1400rpm. My bike hates a low idle speed and will stall easily otherwise.

If that does not solve things then you need to start to diagnose then FI system; if you have a flashing FI light, the sequence (think Morse code long/short flashes) can be read to identify which component is unwell.

Terry, have you tuned your starter valves?

I think his reference to the FI light is that he waits for it to go out/prime the pump, before restarting, not that the FI is flashing an error code.

I believe he got an MFI code as he said it flashed a few times, then he turned the key to off and back to on and then just got the regular start up sequence.

Thus I would encourage him to bring the code up by performing the protocol to see what FI errors might be in the CPU's memory. It can't hurt.

[Knight]

I think his reference to the FI light is that he waits for it to go out/prime the pump, before restarting, not that the FI is flashing an error code.

I believe he got an MFI code as he said it flashed a few times, the he then the key to off and back to on and then just got the regular start up sequence.

Thus I would encourage him to bring the code up by performing the protocol to see what FI errors might be in the CPU's memory. It can't hurt.

OOPS thanks for correcting me.

[fishyfashionpants]

Wow guys.....I really appreciate all the information provided...this is why I love being on a forum where there is a common interest and everyone is willing to share information....

Smells like a fishy battery to me..................

do a goofle search on "vfrdiscussion+the drill" and take it from there; I assume you have a multimeter...

Inspect your wiring+connectors from alternator to voltage regulator to main fuse and battery.

@Dutchy...I had the battery tested yesterday and all is in good order....so that rules out that one...

With regards to "The Drill" this is the only link I find, can you please confirm if it is the correct one

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/78697-how-to-use-the-multimeter-during-the-drill/

Sorry guys that Im not referencing to everyone, there is just too much info.... I attempted to check the FI error codes, I got two long blinks then two short blinks, ok awesome now i can see what is wrong, but I forgot if there was a pause between the two long and two short, then in attempt to check it again, I may have cleared the error codes... *face palm*

so in recent developments, I rode the bike this morning purposefully in stop and go traffic to try and get it to cut out, but she behaved herself, don't know if tightening the battery after getting it tested resolved the issue or if clearing the fault code did. Would that even be possible that clearing the fault codes resolves the issue?

So steps forward, I definitely want to do "The Drill" and all the above mentioned checks which you guys provided just to have peace of mine. Also I have seen some guys rewire the main fuse and also earth some of the connectors, i think its a blue one, would you guys advice to do those fixes?

[CandyRedRC46]

double check the main fuse, big blue and grey connections, stator/rr plug.

[Terry]

Clearing the fault codes won't fix something that is wrong. However, fault codes stay in memory indefinitely until cleared, so the displayed fault could be from some prior problem. Now you know you've cleared it, if a fault is registered you will be sure that it relates to your current complaint.

Did your bike only cut out at a standstill? I'd still suggest a low idle speed as a reason. All the talk of checking charging/earths etc is fine but I doubt they could cause the engine to stall yet still start easily multiple times and run well when moving.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[checksix]

It could have been something simple like a loose battery connection. You tightened up the bolts when you reinstalled the battery and the problem went away. Maybe. Time will tell.

[fishyfashionpants]

Good day All

Hope every one has had a great start to the new year and I hope 2016 will give us all many happy miles on the road.

Sorry that I have been so quiet, had an hectic start to the new year.

I have ridden the VFR a few times since my last post, some long rides, and some short rides, and she has been behaving no cutting out at all, so maybe it was a loose batter connection after all?

[luigi]

Ciao.

Talking about electronics in motorcycle, everything is possible.

Sincerely i don't think so. i don't know if you have make some checks or test on the devices involved.

Most probably, the trouble was caused by a random ECU or tension regulator malfunction that, in my own opinion, is better to keep under control.

Ciao e Buon 2016.

Luigi.

[Traveller]

I don't know if it's any help, but just a few days ago I had a similar issue with my BMW GS.

One moment she was running fine and all of a suden she started cutting out violently, to the point that I had to pull over immediately to keep from getting run over.

When I pulled over she was idling fine but then a few meters down the road she started cutting out again and eventually gave up the ghost completely.

There was no power to the ignition, but all the electrics were working fine.

Turns out it was a dodgy fuse which had severely corroded terminals. Maybe you should check the ignition connection line from battery to ECU and engine and make sure that it's up to the job.