Member Contributer B4V4 Posted August 10, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted August 10, 2015 Picked up a 5th with a transmission issue. I'm an entire person away from the original owner, and temporary owner #2 decided to simply start taking stuff off the bike based on owner #1's observations. Owner #1. 65k miles. Starts the bike up in the garage, kicks it into gear with clutch engaged. Bike lunges forward, locks and falls over (all with clutch engaged). All hearsay as I don't believe this is the issue ... So now the bike sits with a few parts off it, including the chain, centerstand, clutch plumbing, etc. Troubleshooting: I can run through the gears turning the motor over manually. Counting from 6th: 6th is good false neutral between 6th & 5th, 4th is good 3rd is good a little difficulty getting down in 2nd 1st is good I can get the half-step between 1st and 2nd in order to step it into neutral, but a 1/2 rotation later, grabs into the next gear; 1st half step finds it's way into 2nd and vice-versa. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MaxSwell Posted August 10, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted August 10, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer FJ12Ryder Posted August 10, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted August 10, 2015 None of what your doing will really tell you much. Turning the bike over by hand is just not going to cut it, unless the transmission is totally shot, with broken gears. The shafts really need to be spinning to see how things are aligning. You'll have to get the motor running to do a thorough check of the transmission. Well, you could pull the transmission, but that's a lot of work. With no real idea of what the problem is, you're kind of stuck until you get the motor running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted August 10, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted August 10, 2015 Owner #1. 65k miles. Starts the bike up in the garage, kicks it into gear with clutch engaged. Bike lunges forward, locks and falls over (all with clutch engaged). All hearsay as I don't believe this is the issue ... So now the bike sits with a few parts off it, including the chain, centerstand, clutch plumbing, Any thoughts? Sounds like a clutch hydraulics issue to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer B4V4 Posted August 10, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 10, 2015 Sounds like a clutch hydraulics issue to me. I was leaning toward the clutch myself. Thinking about the original owner: starts the bike up in neutral, pulls in the clutch (which of course doesn't engage), pops it into first and BAM! - bike lunges and stalls. Not sure though why neutral won't hold ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted August 10, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted August 10, 2015 With only second hand information (actually more like 3rd or 4th by the time we get it...lol) it's super hard to diagnose anything. Either the lever does nothing with the clutch, or the seals are leaking internally so that when the lever is pulled it releases the clutch but it rapidly leaks and engages. Basically it sounds like the same thing as starting in neutral and just stepping on the gear shift without using the clutch. As FJ12 says, it's really not easy to tell anything by just turning the countershaft and shifting. Gears will stick and not engage properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer B4V4 Posted August 10, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 10, 2015 Well, I was hoping not to have to put a bike back together, only to pull it apart again until I had a "sign". The second owner never had the bike running but stated that the transmission was stuck so he took off the chain. I'm thinking he didn't know how much compression these bikes have and simply tried to rotate the tire in the first couple of gears - of course we know how that one would end up. Pulling the plugs and manually rotating the engine in any gear doesn't seem to have any tranny issues (other than lack of neutral). I'm thinking that this may end up being a sticky clutch or hydralics issue so could a great buy! Looks like I'll start to reassemble tonight. As the swingarm is involved, do you think there'd be an advantage in hooking up the chain to the rear tire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer FJ12Ryder Posted August 11, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted August 11, 2015 I'd give it a shot without the chain. That may give you an idea of what you have. At least you'll be able to see how it shifts between the gears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Clutch plates are probably stuck together from sitting for a long time. And the hydraulic clutch might need to be bled, or the seals are shot, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer FJ12Ryder Posted August 11, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted August 11, 2015 Excellent point about the clutch plates being stuck together. You'll probably need some way to immobilize the transmission to break the clutch loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer B4V4 Posted August 11, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 11, 2015 Probably best to be taking the plates out for inspection anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Mohawk Posted August 11, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted August 11, 2015 No need to take plates out, get a torch, remove oil filler & pull clutch, watch plates & get someone to turn the wheel with bike in gear, clutch should rotate without engine braking effect. Regarding your gear results, I assume you are rotating the wheel to drive the engine & one shafts worth of gears appears to NOT function, so may have lost a shift fork, rather than the gears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer B4V4 Posted August 11, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 11, 2015 What's the torch for, set the bike on fire in case they don't move ... :). Chain is not hooked up so I'm turning the crank manually with a rachet and reaching around to feel the output-shaft turning. All gears are kicking in within at most one rotation. My one concern at this point is not being able to "hold" neutral. Finding neutral allows me to manually move the output-shaft with my fingers, but 1/4 turn on the crank and it kicks into whatever gear I was on my way to (1st or 2nd), Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted August 11, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted August 11, 2015 Sounds like you might need to pull the cover over the shift star and see what is happening in there. From memory you need to remove the clutch slave cylinder, then the sprocket cover, the drive sprocket and the water pump, to access the cover for the detente system for the gear change. I removed the water pump intact/full/connected to hoses, there's just a couple of bolts that hold it to the crankcase, then it can be slid out of place. You need to drain the oil first. Once you're in there you will be able to view the mechanism that rotates the shift drum and the detente wheel/spring/star that holds the drum in each gear position. My guess is the spring that holds the detente wheel in place might be broken if it won't stay in neutral. In the picture below, the shift star is bolted to the shift drum that moves the forks inside the gearbox. The shift pedal basically rotates the shift drum one click round with each movement up or down, and the stopper arm is pushed down by a spring into the notches in the shift star to lock the drum in position. There's a spring around the pivot bolt that applies the tension to the stopper arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer B4V4 Posted August 15, 2015 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 15, 2015 TOO FUNNY !! If reading through the gearing troubleshooting from the first post, you'd may have observed that in fact I'm getting a "false" neutral between 1st & 2nd, and a "real" neutral between 5th & 6th .... Yep, I'd temporarily attached the shifter leaver reversed ... DOH! - I've worked on too many 80's bikes :). Troubleshooting: I can run through the gears turning the motor over manually.Counting from 6th: 6th is good false neutral between 6th & 5th, 4th is good 3rd is good a little difficulty getting down in 2nd 1st is good I can get the half-step between 1st and 2nd in order to step it into neutral, but a 1/2 rotation later, grabs into the next gear; 1st half step finds it's way into 2nd and vice-versa. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer FJ12Ryder Posted August 15, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted August 15, 2015 Well, that was an easy fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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